GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #12

[Magdalyn]

Bold & Red by me....

You just made me think of something, and I don't want to gross anyone out, but often our bodies do continue to "function" even after we are, technically "dead" (i.e., no brain and/or heart function):

1. your cells don't die at the immediate moment that heart/brain function stop

2. furthermore, we all have normal bacterial flora that exist, especially in our guts, that also do not die the moment that we do

3. many muscle functions are "voluntary" (require some form of control from the brain), including closing eyes (good reason to cover head), urination, and bowel movements, among others

4. because of this, there are several physical movements and other physiological functions that a corpse (sorry, Alanna) can make long after the person is most clearly dead:

* I've already noted urination and passing of feces, but a buildup of intestinal gasses from the flora still living in the intestine can cause the passage of gas

* there can still be electrical signals between the brain/spinal cord/nerves that result in muscle twitches, spasms, etc.....

* the scariest is probably when the body makes an actual vocal sound, the result of gas buildup in the upper GI tract/lungs.....on its way out it, especially if body is in rigor (begins 3-4 hrs after death), the vocal cords will be tight and more likely to vibrate (i.e., make sound) as the force of the gas passes through

These things have freaked out pathologists I've worked with; I have no doubt they would be an "unexpected" surprise to TH and/or any accomplice and may explain a hasty, panicked dump? (Assuming there was a better plan or that it wasn't intentional, of course).

Sorry if I grossed anyone out. :tmi:

I can totally see an accomplice agreeing to dump the body somewhere, having a plan on where he'll dump her---then the bag moves, twitches, moans/passes gas---dude's all "WTF?" Then dude panics even more than he already is. He thinks she's not really dead (though she truly is). Now what does he do? He can't 'kill' her, he didn't kill her to begin with. He can't exactly call 911 for her. So he pulls over in the first stretch of road where no one is outside....rolls her out and takes off.

 

[Magdalyn]

I'm still catching up; not sure if this has already been posted....

Arlington police say Detective Charles Lodatto was released Monday afternoon nearly a week after being wounded while investigating the death of Alanna.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...rant-in-girls-slaying-released-from-hospital/

 

[human]

I can go with Ginger's theory that maybe she made noise in the car and that freaked him out.

But why let a living child go? One that can recognize you?

I just do not understand the drop spot, unless it is some person who did it for TH and wanted him to get caught.

Maybe TH thought they were friends, but actually the person loathed and feared him.

Maybe the person did not know what the package was, but then noises started coming from it and the person freaked,

 

[jjenny]

I can go with Ginger's theory that maybe she made noise in the car and that freaked him out.

But why let a living child go? One that can recognize you?

I just do not understand the drop spot, unless it is some person who did it for TH and wanted him to get caught.

Maybe TH thought they were friends, but actually the person loathed and feared him.

Maybe the person did not know what the package was, but then noises started coming from it and the person freaked,

She had four bags on her head. Somebody really wanted to make sure she was dead.

 

[GingerzMomma]

My personal opinion about TH having help from a loved one is.... the note he left for his mom tells me that she was not an accomplice before or after the fact. If he had implicated her at all in that letter she would be behind bars. MOO

I must respectfully disagree.

Is it not possible that he could apologize to her in general, and (indirectly) to her involvement specifically, without directly implicating her at all?

i.e., Mom, I'm so sorry, I love you, you were always there for me and helped me when I asked. I wish things hadn't turned out like this. You deserved better....." you get how vague this could be?

After all, if she was involved, she would "get" what was "in between the lines" even if the rest of us can't pick up on it or make a direct correlation, right?

I'm not saying she was involved, I'm just saying the presence of a letter or words on the envelope don't absolve her at this point. We now know that LE had TH among their "persons of interest" within a few hours after the crime, and not a breath was ever whispered until they served the search & arrest warrant 3 weeks later. So no, I don't think a few lines on an envelope exonerate anyone.

 

[Magdalyn]

I can go with Ginger's theory that maybe she made noise in the car and that freaked him out.

But why let a living child go? One that can recognize you?

I just do not understand the drop spot, unless it is some person who did it for TH and wanted him to get caught.

Maybe TH thought they were friends, but actually the person loathed and feared him.

Maybe the person did not know what the package was, but then noises started coming from it and the person freaked,

Or the person--who was never seen by Alanna--was called to come do this task after the fact. He knew what was in the package and had agreed to deal with it. If he suddenly believes Alanna is in fact alive, the unknown perp would not want her to see him. Unknown perp is D-O-N-E, done with this.

 

[jjenny]

Or the person--who was never seen by Alanna--was called to come do this task after the fact. He knew what was in the package and had agreed to deal with it. If he suddenly believes Alanna is in fact alive, the unknown perp would not want her to see him. Unknown perp is D-O-N-E, done with this.

If anybody was called, police would know that since they got his phone records.
They have not arrested anybody.

 

[human]

She had four bags on her head. Somebody really wanted to make sure she was dead.

Yes, but Ginger wrote about all of the different noises after death.

 

[human]

This was brought up by someone earlier. Sorry I can't give credit.

It blows my mind. Talking about bands in the AM. Killing in the PM.

He is ironicrayne
http://shows.videoworldonline.eu/video/0qt15kKdXek/creeper-screaming-demon.html

 

[GingerzMomma]

I can go with Ginger's theory that maybe she made noise in the car and that freaked him out.

But why let a living child go? One that can recognize you?

I just do not understand the drop spot, unless it is some person who did it for TH and wanted him to get caught.

Maybe TH thought they were friends, but actually the person loathed and feared him.

Maybe the person did not know what the package was, but then noises started coming from it and the person freaked,

Bold/Red by me...

I think one wouldn't, unless absolutely surprised and without a fast way of, again, trying to end her life (so, so sorry.....).

As I said, he may have been pacing the block and trying to make up a story that he "saw" something to exonerate himself. (He stuck himself in the middle of the Gallagher's tire incident, right? Was it for attention, or to make himself seem "least unlikely"?).... If she named him later, well......we all know how hard it is to have the testimony of very young children stand up in court. No doubt he'd take full advantage of this.

This said, I don't really think this is what happened, but the post about a "surprise" reason to suddenly and outside of "the plan" dump her (we love you, little lady! sorry) made me think of this possibility. I don't personally feel this is what happened, but I'll play it out just to think outside the box.

 

[IBsleuthin]

I can go with Ginger's theory that maybe she made noise in the car and that freaked him out.

But why let a living child go? One that can recognize you?

I just do not understand the drop spot, unless it is some person who did it for TH and wanted him to get caught.

Maybe TH thought they were friends, but actually the person loathed and feared him.

Maybe the person did not know what the package was, but then noises started coming from it and the person freaked,

RBBM

It was at this point about ten years ago that I became intensely interested in geographic profiling.

Prior to that I was very interested in psychological profiling but I found that because I could not think like a criminal I had a hard time getting into the psyche of one.

But with geographic profiling, for some reason it just makes such logical sense to me. The way the criminal thinks and is reacting to the crime as it unfolds really comes out in bold colors with this methodology.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Gingerz is right. We had our coolest cat pass away about 3 years ago. I held him and sadly watched as he died. It wasn't long but felt like forever. He took his last gasp and his body twitched for what felt like an hour. It was horrific. That would freak anyone out.

 

[IBsleuthin]

At some point during this, TH made the decision that there was no going back, that this child was going to die.

There's no way he abducts and rapes a child from two houses down thinking that he was going to turn her loose again.

So I would say it's safe to assume he had a little planning involved.

Planning and fantasizing about, 'one day'.

Just like a Venus Fly Trap though, he had to wait for the opportunity to present itself.

 

[Magdalyn]

If anybody was called, police would know that since they got his phone records.
They have not arrested anybody.

He could have a throwaway phone. He's had three weeks to get rid of it. He and his friend could use a message board via his or his mom's computer (which may not have forensics back on since they've only had it a week.) His friend might come by every day at 6 to get stoned. His friend might live three houses away through his backyard and he walked over to talk to him...

Heck, now that I think about it, if he plays x-box Live, and leaves it on/logged in, he could just throw on his headset and tell his friend that way. My son leaves his plugged often when he's not using it and I can hear his friends talking thru the headset. You can also see who's online/offline. If he leaves it online through the day, saw it was just him and his friend online at that moment, easy-peasy, it's the convenience of placing a call, only the line's been open all day with other people logging in and out. To the outside world it looks like you're just playing x-box. Any forensics on that might take a while as well.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Gingerz is right. We had our coolest cat pass away about 3 years ago. I held him and sadly watched as he died. It wasn't long but felt like forever. He took his last gasp and his body twitched for what felt like an hour. It was horrific. That would freak anyone out.

Also, I think I was assuming that she died right away. We don't know that.

She could have gone unconscious, and so near death that she appeared to be so. Then upon moving her, some small burst of oxygen made it into the bag and she was briefly revived enough to make some noise. We just will never know.

The words of a killer aren't something I go to the bank with so even if he does manage a scrawled out 'tell all', I'm not buying into it hook line and sinker.

 

[IBsleuthin]

He could have in his possession a STOLEN phone that has been hacked and rebooted or whatever I read about this on ebay.

The trouble is we think about things in a different way.

 

[IBsleuthin]

R

He could have a throwaway phone. He's had three weeks to get rid of it. He and his friend could use a message board via his or his mom's computer (which may not have forensics back on since they've only had it a week.) His friend might come by every day at 6 to get stoned. His friend might live three houses away through his backyard and he walked over to talk to him...

Heck, now that I think about it, if he plays x-box Live, and leaves it on/logged in, he could just throw on his headset and tell his friend that way. My son leaves his plugged often when he's not using it and I can hear his friends talking thru the headset. You can also see who's online/offline. If he leaves it online through the day, saw it was just him and his friend online at that moment, easy-peasy, it's the convenience of placing a call, only the line's been open all day with other people logging in and out. To the outside world it looks like you're just playing x-box. Any forensics on that might take a while as well.

THAT'S WHAT I SAID!! (But I was shot down in flames)... sad.

 

[Magdalyn]

This was brought up by someone earlier. Sorry I can't give credit.

It blows my mind. Talking about bands in the AM. Killing in the PM.

He is ironicrayne
http://shows.videoworldonline.eu/video/0qt15kKdXek/creeper-screaming-demon.html

Huh. Didn't he tell police he slept til 2:00 pm and then watched TV shows that he now can't remember? :waiting:

 

[GingerzMomma]

She had four bags on her head. Somebody really wanted to make sure she was dead.

I don't disagree.

But I've also worked with experienced pathologists who have jumped and ran when a body dead for some time vocalized, and another when an arm jerked up into the air from the autopsy table (in hospital, neither forensic).....and they KNOW to expect this: there is no way to anticipate or prepare yourself for this, though. Yes, they laughed afterward (not disrespectfully, of course - more from embarrassment).

I imagine this is surprising for anyone, especially if you aren't, well, prepared for this.......four bags or not. Perhaps even more so after four bags?

(Jesus - forgive me, and you too, Alanna).

 

[Linda7NJ]

I agree with pretty much all of this. I'm doubting that the "unknown liquid" had anything to do with destroying DNA. I don't think Alanna was supposed to be found. Don't think she fell off a truck though. I think Holder's pacing the street and identifying Alanna were his nerves getting the better of him because something didn't go to plan. I don't think the underwear was redressing and I think the tarp was only for concealment, no deeper psychological meaning.

I am beyond confused as to how Alanna ended up on that street. I like the garbage truck theory, but it doesn't fit with the body being on the road. It does look like her body was pushed out of a vehicle. But I don't think Holder would have let that happen unless a) he wasn't in the car or b) something unexpected happened and it was urgent to get rid of the body.

I think a car had to be involved to move the body. Either there was an accomplice or Holder stole/borrowed a vehicle. If there was an accomplice, I think it was for the whole ordeal. I just can't see Holder trusting someone enough to move her body only.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I think the brown unknown liquid was tiki torch oil / lamp oil and the plan was to torch her.