TX - Atatiana Jefferson, 28, fatally shot by police at home, Fort Worth, Oct 2019 *officer charged*

Discussion in 'Currently Awaiting Trial' started by GuyfromCanada, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    I agree but I think that perhaps “pre med student” might be a better choice. Dean’s profession is mentioned every time after all.
     


  2. Rocky1

    Rocky1 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree.
    The cops were not "criminally trespassing."
    Using your example of someone sitting in your backyard, They are not criminally trespassing either.
    In order to be criminally trespassed in this example, you (the homeowner or manager of the property) would have to tell them to leave, or have the cops tell them to leave. If they return, they can be arrested for criminal trespass. The cops do not have authorization to tell that person directly to leave. You have to or have the cops tell them .There are some cities that use an affidavit that's filled out before hand, and gives the cops authorization to remove someone from private property, but even then the cops have to tell you to leave first. If you return, you can be arrested.
    There are situations where someone can be arrested without being told to go first.
    If the property is posted with signs.
    If the property has a fence that would be used to keep people out.
    Painted markings a certain distance apart.

    There were no signs here.
    There was no fence.
    There were no markings.

    In this case, because he was a cop responding to a call, he's allowed to enter this property even if it was posted.
    There are other reasons a cop can enter private property.
    If they are chasing someone that has committed a crime.
    If they have to report a death to a family.

    In the OJ Simpson case, the cops scaled his fence without getting a call and without a warrant. They said they feared someone's life inside the house may be in danger.
    The attorneys tried to suppress all evidence that they found in the house, but the court allowed it.

    Texas Penal Code § 30.05 | FindLaw

    In order to be criminally trespassed, in your example of someone being inside of your house, there would be a need to show intent of committing a crime. So yes, if someone breaks into your house, it would be reasonable to assume they have/had the intent of robbing you.

    Here's an affidavit that Dallas uses for criminal trespass. I'm not sure of Forth Worth has one or not.
    https://www.dallaspolice.net/divisions/Shared Documents/SE_Criminal_Trespass_Affidavit.pdf
     
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  3. Momof4RN

    Momof4RN Well-Known Member

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    I’m a little lost on the comparison with Watts case. Didn’t follow that one that closely but it appears that it was handled differently and with no risk of the homeowner being shot dead.
    In this case. This could have been my own home on a rare Saturday night that we are up late. Lights on, doors open, 2 cars in driveway. If a cop happened to pull onto my court I highly doubt they would first suspect a burglary is in progress, and I believe they would certainly attempt to first make contact with us through my front door before heading to my back yard if there is no response. moo
     
  4. Rocky1

    Rocky1 Well-Known Member

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    There may be, but I can't find any.
    To me anyway, this case is rather unique imo.
    I may be wrong, but if this women wasn't shot and killed, I think she may have thanked the cops and her neighbor for checking up on her, and that would have been the end of it.
    Where this cop was responding to a call, they have the right to enter posted/fenced property.

    Most case law I have seen is when cops violate peoples 4th amendment by scaling a fence without a warrant while the homeowner is in violation of the law.
    Unrelated.
    Texas v. Betts.
    State Of Arizona v. Cody Mitchell. (I believe on appeal)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2019
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  5. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    For us it was a bit different. My husband and I were home, all the lights were off, even the front porch light. We were watching Paranormal Activity, so of course it must be completely dark. All the doors and windows were closed, or so we thought. About halfway into the movie there’s a knock at our front door. Our neighbor, known as “the Wigger” called the police because the door from our side backyard to our garage was open. We knew it was our neighbor because the police told us. There were two policemen, they told us what was going on and asked if they could come in and look around. They were very nice. Completely professional.
     
  6. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip: quoted post was removed>

    Another issue that is important and I can’t find it anywhere, what was the crime statistic for her neighborhood? Why were the LEOs so scared?

    Also, they wrote that she was nr 7 killed by the police of Fort Worth since June. I found the stories of other victims (not names), and could not understand whether in all cases, fire was justified. The cases are poorly reported. To me, it seems that either the citizens of Fort Worth are quick to use firearms, and the police is scared, or vise versa, or both. Maybe Fort Worth could be the pilot project for certain changes? Or at least in-depth study? Because I don’t think it is about one rotten apple, a rookie cop, Aaron Dean.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2019
  7. Longtime_lurker2019

    Longtime_lurker2019 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, it would appear there is a policy/procedure issue. But its not limited to DFW. It is a national cancer. We have militarized our police. Protect and serve is getting lost. Irrational fear is ratcheting up both the police and those they police
     
  8. Hraefn

    Hraefn Verified Attorney

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    Fort Worth Crime Rates and Statistics - NeighborhoodScout
    Her neighborhood is “City Center” on this map. Pretty much in the center of the dark blue on the linked map.

    ETA: her house is just southeast of downtown. It’s a couple blocks from a park. It’s a highly populated and densely populated neighborhood. This area of any city will have statistically higher crime due to more people and more opportunity.
     
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  9. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    So, someone has to start changing, somewhere. This is why I say, "pilot projects".
     
  10. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.

    • So one understands, they arrive there already being scared. The neighbor called them because he was scared.
    • She did not live there. She moved in with her sick mother. This makes a difference, too. What she did - opening the door for a breeze - might have not been typical for the area. This all explains a lot. The neighbor sees unlikely situation and reports, the rookie cops come in scared, the tenant hears a prowler... these are contributing factors. And maybe she is not on the list of tenants because she merely moved in, temporarily.
     
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  11. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    They asked if they could "come in and look around"? Whatever for?
     
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  12. firebird

    firebird Former Member

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    To make sure that there wasn't an intruder the homeowners weren't aware of?
     
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  13. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    We thought because the whole house was dark, our neighbor had told them we never left our door to the garage open, it was just my husband who went to the door, maybe the policemen were doubting my husband when he said everything was fine. I believe they asked to come in just to make sure we were OK.
     
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  14. nrdsb4

    nrdsb4 Well-Known Member

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    BBM. I think that's an oversimplication of this incident. The neighbor knew that an elderly neighbor had recently had surgery. He stated that leaving a door open at 2:30 am was highly irregular for this lady. Like Shannann Watts, there was a known physical problem that exacerbated the worry-that concern probably wouldn't have occurred to anyone if the same situation was the case for a household of college frat boys or a young healthy married couple.

    It's too bad that the neighbor didn't know this family well enough to call one of them, or that he didn't feel safe approaching the door himself. If he was afraid that she had possibly been burglarized, I can see why he would prefer to call the cops. A "welfare check" to 99.999% of the population brings to mind the nice policeman knocking on the door asking if all is well. He couldn't have been reasonably expected to assume that a)the dispatch would incorrectly report the nature of the problem and b)that a fearful, jumpy, incompetent team of officers would be sent to the house not checking on an elderly woman, but with a preconceived notion of "trouble" and that they would completely abandon the idea of approaching the front door and announcing themselves.

    IMO your attitude towards the neighbor is unjustly harsh. We will have to agree to disagree on that issue apparently.

    Any neighborhood that close to downtown Ft. Worth is probably not your average Mayberry neighborhood. Perhaps that played into the equation if it was in fact a high crime neighborhood, not only in the police officers' minds, but also into the neighbor's as well.

    I also agree with others that race can certainly be a factor-not necessarily that the officers wanted to kill a black person, but that they have a bias that black people are more inherently dangerous or likely to be up to no good. I don't know for sure it that played a part here. There is still much to be learned.
     
  15. nrdsb4

    nrdsb4 Well-Known Member

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    What is the address of Atatiana Jefferson's mother's home? I live in Dallas, but I'm somewhat familiar with Ft. Worth, as we recently scouted some areas for my D's wedding dinner. I may not be able to offer any insight, but I'd like to at least take a look at the exact area.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  16. Hraefn

    Hraefn Verified Attorney

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    The 1200 block of East Allen Ave, 76104
    I don’t know the exact house number but it’s the blue house right next door to the Masjid of All Islam.
     
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  17. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    <modsnip: quoted post was removed>
    I want to also know that she is an Auntie, sister, daughter, the baby of her family.
    I want to know that she's a pre-med student who got straight A's.
    I want to know that she was only living there to help her sister and mother.

    Have her family and childhood pictures been in the media?
    I've only seen them on BET and instagram.

    Who Was Atatiana Jefferson?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2019
  18. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    The Fourth Amendment right of individuals to remain safe and secure in their own homes, (Free from government intrusion) is a fundamental civil liberty.

    Unwarranted and non-emergency welfare checks should not deprive us of those rights. (but they often do!).

    I would never take anyone's 4thA rights away, by calling in a welfare check, without being a great deal more concerned and at least attempting to make contact with my neighbors.

    It always amazes me how quick we are to just hand those rights over like we don't even care if we have any.

    "I appreciate your concern, but as you can see, we 're fine."

    Is my preference to just caving in to "mind if we come in" warrantless search inquiries...
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  19. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for posting "who was Atatiana Jefferson" I hadn't see the photos of her and her siblings.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2019
  20. Synergizer Bunny

    Synergizer Bunny Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip: quoted post was removed>

    IMO, you are not going to be able to totally predict how humans respond at any given time in any given situation.

    So, perhaps, the answer is to build robots to respond to domestic calls. You can have trained officers operating the robots from a command center. The robots will be indestructible, built to take bullets, bombs or whatever. So, the officers at the command center can respond after the fact and not have to respond before or during the event.

    Domestic calls are known for being the most dangerous for police officers, too. Their lives matter, too.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2019
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