TX - Atatiana Jefferson, fatally shot by police through her window, bodycam, Fort Worth, 12 Oct 2019

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by GuyfromCanada, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip: quoted post was removed>

    Another issue that is important and I can’t find it anywhere, what was the crime statistic for her neighborhood? Why were the LEOs so scared?

    Also, they wrote that she was nr 7 killed by the police of Fort Worth since June. I found the stories of other victims (not names), and could not understand whether in all cases, fire was justified. The cases are poorly reported. To me, it seems that either the citizens of Fort Worth are quick to use firearms, and the police is scared, or vise versa, or both. Maybe Fort Worth could be the pilot project for certain changes? Or at least in-depth study? Because I don’t think it is about one rotten apple, a rookie cop, Aaron Dean.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2019


  2. Longtime_lurker2019

    Longtime_lurker2019 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, it would appear there is a policy/procedure issue. But its not limited to DFW. It is a national cancer. We have militarized our police. Protect and serve is getting lost. Irrational fear is ratcheting up both the police and those they police
     
  3. Hraefn

    Hraefn Verified Attorney

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    Fort Worth Crime Rates and Statistics - NeighborhoodScout
    Her neighborhood is “City Center” on this map. Pretty much in the center of the dark blue on the linked map.

    ETA: her house is just southeast of downtown. It’s a couple blocks from a park. It’s a highly populated and densely populated neighborhood. This area of any city will have statistically higher crime due to more people and more opportunity.
     
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  4. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    So, someone has to start changing, somewhere. This is why I say, "pilot projects".
     
  5. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you.

    • So one understands, they arrive there already being scared. The neighbor called them because he was scared.
    • She did not live there. She moved in with her sick mother. This makes a difference, too. What she did - opening the door for a breeze - might have not been typical for the area. This all explains a lot. The neighbor sees unlikely situation and reports, the rookie cops come in scared, the tenant hears a prowler... these are contributing factors. And maybe she is not on the list of tenants because she merely moved in, temporarily.
     
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  6. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    They asked if they could "come in and look around"? Whatever for?
     
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  7. firebird

    firebird Well-Known Member

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    To make sure that there wasn't an intruder the homeowners weren't aware of?
     
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  8. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    We thought because the whole house was dark, our neighbor had told them we never left our door to the garage open, it was just my husband who went to the door, maybe the policemen were doubting my husband when he said everything was fine. I believe they asked to come in just to make sure we were OK.
     
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  9. nrdsb4

    nrdsb4 Well-Known Member

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    BBM. I think that's an oversimplication of this incident. The neighbor knew that an elderly neighbor had recently had surgery. He stated that leaving a door open at 2:30 am was highly irregular for this lady. Like Shannann Watts, there was a known physical problem that exacerbated the worry-that concern probably wouldn't have occurred to anyone if the same situation was the case for a household of college frat boys or a young healthy married couple.

    It's too bad that the neighbor didn't know this family well enough to call one of them, or that he didn't feel safe approaching the door himself. If he was afraid that she had possibly been burglarized, I can see why he would prefer to call the cops. A "welfare check" to 99.999% of the population brings to mind the nice policeman knocking on the door asking if all is well. He couldn't have been reasonably expected to assume that a)the dispatch would incorrectly report the nature of the problem and b)that a fearful, jumpy, incompetent team of officers would be sent to the house not checking on an elderly woman, but with a preconceived notion of "trouble" and that they would completely abandon the idea of approaching the front door and announcing themselves.

    IMO your attitude towards the neighbor is unjustly harsh. We will have to agree to disagree on that issue apparently.

    Any neighborhood that close to downtown Ft. Worth is probably not your average Mayberry neighborhood. Perhaps that played into the equation if it was in fact a high crime neighborhood, not only in the police officers' minds, but also into the neighbor's as well.

    I also agree with others that race can certainly be a factor-not necessarily that the officers wanted to kill a black person, but that they have a bias that black people are more inherently dangerous or likely to be up to no good. I don't know for sure it that played a part here. There is still much to be learned.
     
  10. nrdsb4

    nrdsb4 Well-Known Member

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    What is the address of Atatiana Jefferson's mother's home? I live in Dallas, but I'm somewhat familiar with Ft. Worth, as we recently scouted some areas for my D's wedding dinner. I may not be able to offer any insight, but I'd like to at least take a look at the exact area.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  11. Hraefn

    Hraefn Verified Attorney

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    The 1200 block of East Allen Ave, 76104
    I don’t know the exact house number but it’s the blue house right next door to the Masjid of All Islam.
     
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  12. MsFacetious

    MsFacetious What a Kerfuffle...

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    <modsnip: quoted post was removed>
    I want to also know that she is an Auntie, sister, daughter, the baby of her family.
    I want to know that she's a pre-med student who got straight A's.
    I want to know that she was only living there to help her sister and mother.

    Have her family and childhood pictures been in the media?
    I've only seen them on BET and instagram.

    Who Was Atatiana Jefferson?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2019
  13. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    The Fourth Amendment right of individuals to remain safe and secure in their own homes, (Free from government intrusion) is a fundamental civil liberty.

    Unwarranted and non-emergency welfare checks should not deprive us of those rights. (but they often do!).

    I would never take anyone's 4thA rights away, by calling in a welfare check, without being a great deal more concerned and at least attempting to make contact with my neighbors.

    It always amazes me how quick we are to just hand those rights over like we don't even care if we have any.

    "I appreciate your concern, but as you can see, we 're fine."

    Is my preference to just caving in to "mind if we come in" warrantless search inquiries...
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  14. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for posting "who was Atatiana Jefferson" I hadn't see the photos of her and her siblings.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2019
  15. Synergizer Bunny

    Synergizer Bunny Well-Known Member

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    <modsnip: quoted post was removed>

    IMO, you are not going to be able to totally predict how humans respond at any given time in any given situation.

    So, perhaps, the answer is to build robots to respond to domestic calls. You can have trained officers operating the robots from a command center. The robots will be indestructible, built to take bullets, bombs or whatever. So, the officers at the command center can respond after the fact and not have to respond before or during the event.

    Domestic calls are known for being the most dangerous for police officers, too. Their lives matter, too.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2019
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  16. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely treasure my rights and my freedom. The freedom to choose, we chose to let the police in our home. We had nothing to hide, we had no fear of the police. They asked politely, non-threatening. LOL "no caving in". I believe if Dean had gone to Atatiana door, rang the bell or knocked on her door, she would be alive today.
     
  17. Safeguard

    Safeguard On Time Out

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    Yup. That's how it works. You "had nothing to hide". So basically, you just confirmed why you "chose" to allow a warrantless search. (Because they were so nice an all.).

    Only people who who are "hiding something" or "afraid of the police" would need 4a rights.

    You wouldn't say no thank you to the nice officers just because you didn't call them and don't need assistance, or that would make you look bad?
     
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  18. jjenny

    jjenny Well-Known Member

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    The officers would need to know residents phone number to call the resident. I don't think the neighbor who called police knew it, otherwise why didn't he just call them to check if everything was o'key?
     
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  19. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    You’re making our experience with police something that it wasn’t. Yes, they were extremely nice, non-threatening, very professional. You make it sound like they charged into our home uninvited, with their guns drawn, went through all our rooms, We chose to allow a warrantless search because we had the right to choose to not have them come in, we also had the right to chose to let them come in. There was no reason to chose to not let them come in. They were there because our neighbor was being paranoid, not because we were having domestic issues and one of us called them for help. I’m pretty sure I did not state in my post we chose to let the police into our home because they were so nice and all. Whether one needs their rights, we all are entitled to them. Whether we are hiding something or are afraid of the police. If we wanted to say no thank you to the police, we would have the right to say it. We have the right to choose what to say. If we had chosen to say no to letting them come, it would not make us look bad. I’m not sure what you mean by saying it would make us look bad???? How would you handle the police coming to your home because a neighbor called them for whatever reason?
     
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  20. nrdsb4

    nrdsb4 Well-Known Member

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    This particular house is valued at $154K, much higher than the average for the area. The very close proximity to a major highway makes me wonder about the "safety" of the neighborhood, however. The demographics show high Hispanic concentration and it is considered a "low income" neighborhood. But the value of her home suggest otherwise to me.

    I can't really come to any solid conclusions about the neighborhood to determine reasons for the officers' behavior. Maybe someone else on WS lives in Fort Worth and can better address it.

    The kind of neighborhood one lives in shouldn't determine whether or not a LEO adheres to policy and training, but LEOs are humans who are flawed and don't necessarily always filter out their biases, implicit or otherwise.
     
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