TX - Atatiana Jefferson, fatally shot by police through her window, bodycam, Fort Worth, 12 Oct 2019

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by GuyfromCanada, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. Rocky1

    Rocky1 Well-Known Member

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    This was not a "welfare check"... this was an "open structure" call.
    However, for conversation sake, if this was a welfare call,
    can you explain how this Woman's 4th amendment right would have been violated by a cop knocking at her door?
    "Knock and Talk's" are perfectly legal, even if they are not responding to a call. That doesn't mean you have to let them in your house.

    Knock and Talk Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.
     


  2. Rocky1

    Rocky1 Well-Known Member

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    Snipped from above quote.

    Later they knocked and asked me if they could use my place, my phone and windows, as they were still arresting people pulling up to score, and I was fine with that, (they were in and out of my apartment half the night), because we'd been waiting for something to be done about the downstairs neighbors for months.

    Would it be fair to say that perhaps the "nosy neighbor" was concerned about crime in his neighborhood,, and wanted something done about that too?
    IMO, where as he saw the door open , I don't think what he thought was going to be a "welfare check" call was made because he thought she had the sniffles. My guess is, (and I may be wrong) because he thought something criminal was going on, and didn't want to be confronted by a criminal, and that's why he didn't check up on her himself.

    With all due respect, What's the difference between this so called "nosy neighbor" being concerned about what was going on next door, and you being concerned what was going on with your neighbor down stairs?
     
  3. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    BBM. You are absolutely right. In his interview, the neighbor said, "I didn't have a gun, so I called the police". I did not understand whether he did not have a gun on him, or did not own a gun at all, but it is obvious that he was afraid of approaching AJ's house without a gun. Meaning, he might have very possibly thought, something criminal.
     
  4. SoCalDavidS

    SoCalDavidS Well-Known Member

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    Once again, the problem is, Shoot First, Worry About Facts Later. ASSuming that something bad is going on, without considering the innocent alternative, that everything is perfectly fine.

    Regardless of the certain justification(s) to come, as in the Amber G. case, there were alternatives. Some feel that his occupation choice gives him a pass, and these are the same people who probably give a pass to every cop that "accidentally" kills someone completely innocent.
     
  5. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma Miracle Believer❤️

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    Marquis Jefferson argued that he had been denied any involvement in the funeral planning by the mortuary Body had engaged. He said that as his daughter's sole legal heir, the duty of arranging the funeral is his.
    Judge halts funeral plans for woman shot at home by officer

    Despite the legal action, Carter said Jefferson has a good relationship with his daughter's mother and siblings, who use the last name Carr.
    "The Carr family is invited, there is room for them, they are more than welcome, they'll be respected, they'll be treated with dignity and that's what should happen," he said.
    The order set a hearing to determine if the restraining order will continue is scheduled for Monday, the order said.
    Atatiana Jefferson's father gets a restraining order to delay her funeral and burial - CNN
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
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  6. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma Miracle Believer❤️

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    The demands included unedited body camera video from the crime scene, the names of all officers there and the firing of the city manager. They also listed a commitment to meeting larger scale demands, such as addressing the culture of the police department, and creating a non-police response to welfare checks and mental health calls.
    City Leaders Deny Demands From Activists Acting On Behalf Of Atatiana Jefferson
     
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  7. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma Miracle Believer❤️

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    Sacramento Kings forward Harrison Barnes and his wife, Brittany, are paying most costs for the funeral. Philadelphia Eagles defensive tackle Malik Jackson has committed to paying for the rest, the Jefferson family's attorney told the Dallas Morning News.

    Barnes, an eight-year NBA veteran, told reporters he wanted to give back to the community.

    "My wife and I wanted to do something for that family," Barnes said to reporters in a video posted by NBC Sports. "It was a tragic situation that happened. No one should be killed during a wellness check, but the biggest thing is, anytime someone has to go through that, the last thing they want to have to worry about is trying to come up with the money for a funeral."
    Atatiana Jefferson's father delays her funeral and burial
     
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  8. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma Miracle Believer❤️

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  9. Hraefn

    Hraefn Verified Attorney

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    If someone dials 911 and calls in a burglary, is it dispatched as an “open structure” call?

    That doesn’t seem right...
     
  10. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma Miracle Believer❤️

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    "The information came from the neighbor to the call-takers and while it was relayed to the dispatch, it was determined to be an open structure call," Fort Worth interim Police Chief Ed Kraus told reporters on Tuesday.

    "You are at a higher sensitivity to what is going on with that house," London said. "You have to be ready for anything. You are taking more of your environment in consideration to be ready for a surprise if there's one."
    The first thing that comes to mind is often a burglary -- that's why officers search for signs of forced entry like a broken window or a damaged door.
    Fort Worth shooting: Officers weren't asked to do a wellness check. Here's how it changed things - CNN
     
  11. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma Miracle Believer❤️

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  12. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma Miracle Believer❤️

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    In a Facebook post, Detective JC Williams said Jefferson was "unjustly killed and is a victim."
    upload_2019-10-19_6-32-54.jpeg
    "There are NOT two sides to this story and this is not an 'us vs. them' situation," he wrote. "She, her nephew, the neighbor (are victims). These are the ones that any true cop feels for and wants to protect."

    "Our team screwed up," he wrote. "Saying things like 'There's always one bad apple' doesn't help right now. Say 'I'm sorry' and because of this I will be better and take responsibility to make others better."

    "People won't ever understand what you experience, but it doesn't matter," he wrote. "He got it wrong and we have to admit it and we can't tolerate it."

    Relations with police were already tense in the city before Jefferson's death. Hers was the ninth police-involved shooting in Fort Worth this year, and the seventh fatal one.

    "People don't trust cops that can't be objective and just and be consistent with right and wrong," Williams wrote. "This is our chance to say something is wrong and then continue to do what is right."
    Police reform moves in fits and starts
     
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  13. oceanblueeyes

    oceanblueeyes Well-Known Member

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    I did find that odd when it was being said at that time this was only a wellness check. The burglary possibly occurring makes more sense. Imo.

    When the neighbor first spoke I really couldn't understand why he didnt just walk over, and knock on the door himself to make sure everything was okay. Now I'm learning he said he didn't have a gun. That certainly implies he thought something criminal may have happened.

    Imo, it does explain why LE didnt approach the open door since they thought a burglary may be in progress.

    However, the shooting of AJ through her window is inexcusable.

    Jmho
     
  14. oviedo

    oviedo Well-Known Member

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    Did she have a Will? Why would dad be sole heir if her mom is alive? The articles don’t say one way or another
     
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  15. firebird

    firebird Well-Known Member

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    The quote below is snipped from the article. If the court found he had full authority, I'm guessing the mother's parental rights were legally terminated at some time. Either voluntarily or not. I honestly can't think of any other explanation.

    "But Dallas County Judge Brenda Hull Thompson signed an order Friday saying that Marquis A. Jefferson, whom a death certificate filed to the court lists as Atatiana Jefferson's father, has full authority to make arrangements for her funeral and burial."
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  16. Reasonable & Just

    Reasonable & Just United We Stand

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    I really would not want to live in a world where neighbors won't look out for each other due to a fear of being "nosy". It's that stigma that allows any crime to flourish, not to mention domestic violence and child abuse. Abusers love nothing more than being left to work their evil in peace, and thrive on people second-guessing themselves on asking questions about an unhappy, underweight child or a spouse with a black eye.

    And I for one will not refuse to call the police when I think there is danger. Instead, I will work in my community for de-escalation training and better response to mental health issues. I'm not going to throw up my hands and just decide to mistrust the police to do their job (when so many proudly and bravely carry out their mission to serve and protect). To do so would be to turn my back on the hope and the ideals of the nation I grew up in. However flawed the reality is, it is our job to mold it into what we need it to be. Retreat and apathy are not the way to go, IMO.
     
  17. BeachSky

    BeachSky Well-Known Member

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  18. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    It feels as though Atatiana is being forgotten. Hopefully these family members will work every thing out. At least there will be a celebration of life for her. RIP Atatiana.
     
  19. BeachSky

    BeachSky Well-Known Member

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    The order, filed on Friday, says Marquis A. Jefferson is Atatiana's surviving father and that he will suffer immediate and irreparable harm if the court does not stop Bonita Body and Golden Gate Funeral Home from participating in the activities of the wake, funeral and burial of Atatiana Jefferson.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Temporary-Restraining-Order-Filed-to-Stop-Fort-Worth-Womans-Funeral--563414091.html?amp=y

    Funeral is postponed.
    A judge granted the father
    -a stay - so he can be part of the planning .

    Lee Merritt, an attorney for Jefferson's family, said Saturday morning that the move was a result of a temporary restraining order that was granted in a Dallas court to stop the funeral.
    Merritt said the funeral would be rescheduled after a court hearing Monday in Dallas County.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  20. grammieto5

    grammieto5 Well-Known Member

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    I’m happy to be in The Nosey Neighbor club. A few years ago, our neighbor across the street wonder out of her home. We all knew of her condition; well we knew the name but really did not know anything about the symptoms of early stages of Alzheimer’s. My kitchen window faces the front of her home. I was at my kitchen window and saw her come out of her home, she started walking down the street, of course I stopped what I was doing and started walking with her. She told me what it was like living in Hawaii when Pearl Harbor was attacked. (very interesting) We walked quite a way when she just stopped and asked me if I minded if we went home now, she said she had made some cookies and she thought they were ready to come out of the oven. So, we turned around and as we were almost to her home her son-in-law was walking up towards us. Another “nosey neighbor” had seen us walking and had called him. She was so happy to see him, now imagine a 98-year-old lady running and yelling “I have cookies in the oven for you”. Well she had made the cookies, fortunately she had forgotten to turn the oven on. I know if I hadn’t seen our neighbor walking another nosey neighbor would have. I’d rather live in a neighborhood where there are nosey neighbors then in one where neighbors will hear/see things and just ignore what they know is not right. And I’m so very happy to live in a country where I have the freedom to choose. I also would not hesitate to call the police.
     

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