Discussion in 'Past Trial Discussion Threads' started by Wudge, May 8, 2006.
Wow, this is just a shame. A man who was executed could potentially be innocent. I suppose though if I lost my three daughters I probably wouldn't want to live, but I would at least try to clear my name.
I find it incredible that it took fire investigators so long to realize that when you rapidly change the temperature of glass it can shatter. That goes both ways...if the glass is hot and you pour cold water on it it will shatter. If you have frozen glass and pour hot water on it it will shatter.
Criminal History: At the punishment phase of trial, testimony was presented that Willingham has a history of violence. He has been convicted of numerous felonies and misdemeanors, both as an adult and as a juvenile, and attempts at various forms of rehabilitation have proven unsuccessful.The jury also heard evidence of Willingham's character. Witnesses testified that Willingham was verbally and physically abusive toward his family, and that at one time he beat his pregnant wife in an effort to cause a miscarriage. A friend of Willingham's testified that Willingham once bragged about brutally killing a dog. In fact, Willingham openly admitted to a fellow inmate that he purposely started this fire to conceal evidence that the children had been abused.
Once in the execution room he said his final words: "I am an innocent man convicted of a crime I did not commit. From God's dust I came and to dust I will return, so the Earth shall become my throne. I gotta go, Road Dog."
He then looked at his ex-wife who was watching from the witness room and said "I hope you rot in hell, *****." and tried to make an obscene gesture with his strapped down hand as he continued to yell obscenities at her.
It is puzzling, at least to me, that he didn't murder his wife along with their three daughters.
Jurisprudence in America lives by junk science and dies by junk science. Long live junk science, so say prosecutors.
I thought he was innocent? :waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec:
This sounds more like a hateful psychotic sociopath than a wrongfully convicted innocent man.
"This sounds more like a hateful psychotic sociopath than a wrongfully convicted innocent man."
I wonder if I were innocent and about to die from a painful injection that scared me - if I would sound wrongfully convicted or just freaked out.
Would you have convicted him on junk science?
[P.S. You appear to have missed my (faint hint of) sarcasm.]
I don't know if I would have convicted him or not, but I certainly don't want anyone who is innocent to even be in prison much less executed.
I think there ismore to the evidence then just the Arson science. Neighbors found him in yard when the house was smouldering but not yet "burning" . He made no effort to save his children tho he did manage once the house was aflame to save his car and that is just a cursory glance at the case.
Well, I doubt I would be spending my last breath promising to come back from the dead to avenge myself, which this guy was doing. That's something you see in horror movies, usually by Freddy Krueger and the like.
How you face your own mortality says a lot about a person. My father didn't want to die, not because he was afraid of dying, but because he felt there was so much more for him to do. But in the last few days, after far more excruiating pain than this a-hole got to experience, he accepted the inevitability of it, despite the unfairness of it all, and made his peace. My father didn't want to die, not because he was afraid of dying, but because he felt there was so much more for him to do. But in the last few days he accepted the inevitability of it, despite the unfairness of it all, and made his peace.
And where did this crap about the injections being painful come from?
This is the exact same method we chose to put down domestic animals that are in pain. I seriously doubt lethal injection is any more painful than when I had an IV inserted in the hospital. it's certainly not as painful as when they removed the catherter. And I KNOW its nowhere near as painful as burning to death.
And even if this *was* junk science, it still doesn't mean the a-hole didn't kill his kids.
Notwithstanding weak behavioral circumstantial evidence that cannot be said to be reliable or true. You appear, in my mind, to be missing the point. Trials are not used to determine the truth. Trials are a mechanism whereby a jury assesses reliable, valid and relevant evidence that will allow jurors (intelligent jurors not required and seldom desired by the prosecution) to assess "proof beyond a reasonable doubt".
The output of junk science is not reliable evidence. Hence, reasoning from any such alleged inculpatory evidence to a "guilty" conclusion (verdict) would, at best, be fallacious reasoning.
It's analogous to the GIGO principle; i.e., garbage in, garbage out.
A painful injection? I've seen toddlers in cancer wards cry less over an injection than these big bad criminals.
What am I missing here? He's got a past record, he admitted to setting the fire, and his behavior at the fire backs up everything. Just because one piece of evidence may have been junk science doesn't change anything at all about the rest of it, and the rest of it sounds more than sufficient to convict on.
Verdicts are not reversed because of any mistake, they're only reversed because of a mistake that would have changed the original judge or jury's verdict! That seems to be missing here.
"And where did this crap about the injections being painful come from?
This is the exact same method we chose to put down domestic animals that are in pain. I seriously doubt lethal injection is any more painful than when I had an IV inserted in the hospital. "
My pen pal is on Death Row right now, so I've been reading alot lately on the Death Penalty. There are monsters out there (and you all know as well as I do about each and every one of them) who I don't care if lethal injection hurts them or not - I believe torture should be an option for some people. However, in other cases, I don't believe the death penalty should be invoked.
Animals who are put to sleep are never given the same drugs they use on Death Row executions. The reason is because it's been ruled to be inhumane, so it's illegal to use it on dogs. It's the drug (potassium?) that is painful, not the needle poking in itself.
There is a morotorium on lethal injections in the state of Florida right now because they are trying to see if they can even bring up the arguement that it's cruel to do a lethal injection to kill someone.
I'll look for it when I have a minute, but on May 2nd, there was a guy who actually said "It's not working, It's not working" when he was injected and then his vein collapsed (Not sure what State) and then he was literally in agony for the 14 minutes it took to find another vein and give him a second dose. People against the death penalty at all are using it now as an example of the cruelty of it.
Personally, like I said, if someone does something bad enough - what do I care if it hurts? My thing is... if it were innocent me - I'd surely NOT want it to hurt! I'd be a blathering idiot.
Maybe they should give them the option of being shot between the eyes. I hear that doesn't hurt.
Floridians for Alternatives to the Death Penalty sent this to my email.
Barbarous Execution Shames Ohio
For immediate release
Ohio, May 2, 2006: Today's execution of Joseph Lewis Clark, age 57,
took nearly 90 minutes, making it one of the longest lethal injection
executions in U.S history. The execution team struggled for 25
minutes to insert an intravenous line for the lethal injection, only
to have Mr. Clark complain, "It's not working. It's not working" when
the lethal chemicals began flowing. Prison officials then drew
curtains and attempted to re-establish the intravenous line, while
Mr. Clark could be heard "moaning and groaning" by witnesses. A new
IV was established, the curtains were re-opened, and the drug
infusion began again. Mr. Clark raised his head several times and
breathed deeply before becoming still.
In response to this grisly execution, Jonathan I. Groner MD, national
expert on lethal injection, commented: "The opaque curtain pulled
across the execution chamber could not hide the fact that this man
was tortured to death. Furthermore, the three drug injection used to
extinguish his life is considered so inhumane that veterinarians are
forbidden from using it in a similar fashion to euthanize animals.
"Today's execution demonstrates the terrible dilemma of lethal
injection as medical charade. On the one hand, this 'medicalized'
killing procedure, which uses IV tubing, anesthetic drugs, and other
medical equipment, becomes torture in the hands of unqualified
individuals. On the other hand, the involvement of medical
professionals such as physicians and nurses in executions violates
the fundamental ethics of these professions."
"No human, regardless of his or her crime, should be subjected to the
torture that Mr. Clark faced. The barbarity of this execution is
making news headlines around the world. I urge Ohio's political
leaders to call for a moratorium on lethal injection immediately."
Here it is from CNN:
Killer executed the hard way
Condemned man sits up and tells executioners, 'It's not working'
Tuesday, May 2, 2006; Posted: 3:07 p.m. EDT (19:07 GMT)
COLUMBUS, Ohio (Reuters) -- A double murderer was put to death in
Ohio Tuesday but not until after one of his veins collapsed, causing
the condemned man to sit up and tell his executioners, "It's not
working," officials said.
The Ohio Department of Corrections said Joseph Clark, 57, was
pronounced dead at 11:26 a.m. ET following an injection of lethal
chemicals at the Southern Ohio Correctional Institution in Lucasville.
Spokeswoman Andrea Dean said the execution was delayed about 90
minutes because technicians had trouble initially finding a site in
Clark's arm for the intravenous line carrying the chemicals.
Then shortly after the poisons were supposed to have been pumping
into his body, she said, he sat up saying, "It's not working. It's
Officials determined that a vein had collapsed. Curtains were closed
to block witnesses' view until technicians found a vein in his other
arm. They were then parted to reveal him dying, witnesses said.
Ohio has used lethal injection repeatedly without similar problems,
but this method of execution, used in all but one of the 38 states
that impose capital punishment, is under legal attack.
The U.S. Supreme Court has a challenge before it from Florida
claiming that it causes undue pain, while the matter is also before a
court in California.
The method involves three separate drugs: the first renders the
victim unconscious, the second stops all muscle movement except the
heart and the third stops the heart, causing death.
Clark was given a meal of his request Monday, consisting of shrimp,
steak, chicken wings, fries, rolls with butter, cherry pie and a soft drink.
Just before the execution process started the first time Clark made a
final statement apologizing to his victims' families and saying
"Today my life is being taken because of drugs. If you live by the
sword you die by the sword."
On January 13, 1984, Clark shot Marine reservist and father of two
David Manning and stole $65 from the gas station where Manning was working.
The murder came during an eight-day crime spree in which Clark also
murdered another man, student Donald Harris, and wounded a third man
during an attempted robbery.
Harris was filling in for a friend at a convenience store when Clark
entered and demanded the contents of the store's safe. Harris said he
did not know the safe's combination, and was shot in the back of the head.
Clark later attempted to rob a man at an automated teller machine,
the two struggled, and the victim was wounded twice. A witness saw
the attack and noted the license plate number on Clark's car.
After he was arrested, Clark tried to hang himself in his jail cell,
and confessed to the murders while recovering in a hospital. He was
sentenced to death for Manning's murder.
Clark said he robbed to support a drug habit.
"Neither the parole board nor I are persuaded by Mr. Clark's attempt
to explain away Mr. Manning's murder," Gov. Robert Taft said in
refusing clemency last week.
Taft said Clark's "well established prior criminal conduct, both as a
juvenile and as an adult, signifies a propensity for violent behavior."
Clark was the 21st person to be executed in Ohio since the state
resumed carrying out the death penalty in 1999, and the 1,021st
inmate executed in the United States since capital punishment resumed in 1976.
Pick ANY of those guys who kidnap and rape/torture little kids (Whether they then kill them, or not) and I'd say we do that whole ancient death from 1,000 cuts. <Begin Sarcasm> That doesn't hurt either, since we ALL get papercuts, right? <End Sarcasm>
But those innocent guys on Death Row, or the battered women who fight back - yeah, I think a bullet would be preferable. That's what I'd pick, anyway, for my innocent execution!
It's actually a good idea, Jeana. It might become a reality if they end up finding the lethal injection unconstitutional. Honestly, it would be cheaper for everyone if they'd just give them regular drugs, like the ones they use to knock us out for surgery - only give them too much. No pain at all, no one could argue that it is.
Works for me.
Condemned man sits up and tells executioners, 'It's not working'
How the hell could he have set up? They are straped down from every angle.
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