Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by mocity, Mar 17, 2005.
Seems that the person responsible could have been watching that area or lived close by
Snoods. Just to be clear, it didn't take 17 years to run the DNA. It took 17 years to match the two together. They had no suspects DNA sitting in CODIS that matched the two. They had to physically compare the two on a whim.
When the Houston PD talks about having to exhaust all other options before they can run "Familial" DNA testing, they are right. There are certain criteria that has to be met and presented before a review board. Things like if the suspect is a current threat to the public, if all other investigative procedures have been done, and if it's a violent crime or not.... Things like that, and they vary from state to state. There are only 12 states that allow testing at all, Maryland has banned it all together and right or wrong civil liberties organizations are all over it trying to prevent it from happening. So, it's not a situation where Houston PD can just do it when they want to. In this case, I believe Parabon has to be, and should be the next step . That can be done at anytime, is one of those avenues that would have to be explored before using GEDMatch etc, and IMO will give a lot of information (including a picture) that may in fact solve the case in itself.
There's a bill in the house (3316 I think but don't quote me) that is/was addressing the issue, of federal guidance on Familial DNA testing, but I'm not sure what the results have been, if any.
Having said all this, to me, there is no excuse as to why Parabon hasn't been used yet, and I do agree with you that Houston does have a backlog. This is why I say, it's time to make noise.
Just to add. The silver lining is that...
TX, is one state that allows Familial DNA testing.
This was a violent crime.
This suspect may be a current threat to the public.
I think that once Parabon is used, there are not many avenues that haven't been exhausted, so it is possible that GEDMatch could be right behind it, if there are no results from Parabon.
Snoods. Are you sure he had a Shotgun during the rape? I know he had a gun, but for some reason I thought it was a handgun.
The way you type my name gives me flashbacks of being called to the principal’s office. Am I in trouble? Lol.
The way I understand it, DNA collected from the murders has been in CODIS for years, and it was only after backlogged rape kits from 17 years ago were finally entered into CODIS in 2008 when they got the hit.
I may be misunderstanding you, apologies if so, but LE didn’t actually pick that particular rape kit on a whim and decide to run it against the DNA from the murder, the medical examiner was trying to clear up their backlog, entered it into CODIS, and got a hit.
“Belk had to get special permission from the department to have the DNA lab at Baylor College of Medicine process the sample. The resulting profile was entered into the Combined DNA Index System (CODIS). But a link was never found to any other crime until after the Harris County Sheriff's Office started sending a backlog of old rape kits from unsolved sexual assault cases to be processed at the Medical Examiner's Office, Belk said.
The medical examiner developed DNA profiles and submitted them to CODIS. In October, the database registered a match with a rape that occurred just two months before Henry and Atkinson were killed.”
If lab tests show enough genetic markers match to indicate a relationship, police can use that.
Shorten sums it up saying, “That individual profile can be used as probable cause to go and get a DNA sample from the actual targeted person. “
While investigators await those results, DNA testing has already made one important, though very late, link: Two months before the murders, an exotic dancer was raped in north Harris County. DNA testing was relatively new and expensive. It would take 17 years for HPD's beleaguered crime lab, to run the sample. It turned out to be a match to the Lovers Lane killer.”
In the latter article from November 2017, it seems to me that LE is discussing using familial DNA as if it’s a done deal and they are waiting on results.
I believe you are correct, my mistake. It was a long barreled handgun, according to this article.
The man wore a fishnet stocking over his face, black gloves, and a dark shirt and pants that matched, possibly a uniform. He held a long-barrelled handgun in his left hand. "Where's Randy?" he asked, referring to her boyfriend by name.
I do believe it was someone familiar with the area, very slim chance he/they would have been tooling around that (at the time) undeveloped area by happenstance.
It was a well known area to us young adults and high schoolers, but a person would pretty much have to deliberately choose to go there.
I wish I had a google map of the area as it was then, as to give you a better idea of what I mean.
Edit: I wanted to add, unless of course he was following them, which is very probable. It appears he stalked his previous victim before attacking and raping her.
Snoods. You are right about the DNA. I was posting from memory. I should have re-read the article first. My apologies!
Just seems the person new kids went there to make out. I am still a little unsure if it was one or two people responsible. Whomever did it tied up two people, got two people out of the car and killed two people. Unless a gun was used to get them to comply and the knife was the murder weapon.
Wonder if there are any police reports from that area before the murders of any noises or susipous people. I would not be surprised if other people that went to that spot did not have a run in with somebody odd or out of place there
No worries, it’s all good!
It blows my mind that it took 17 years for the rape victim’s kit to be run. She was raped only two months before the murders. If only...
If only someone in LE had made the strip club connection; the rape victim was an exotic dancer at GiGi’s, Andy’s dad was the manager of Dream Street (I may be incorrect, but didn’t Andy also occasionally work the front door?) and Cheryl had/did work as a waitress at Rick’s Cabaret.
I myself worked at Rick’s (and many other clubs) for various independent alcohol promotions, shot girl type stuff. It was hella good money. I really hope LE wasn’t biased in any way regarding the exotic dancer’s rape.
In my humble opinion I believe it was only one person. Two people are often killed by one person. (EAR, Monster of Florence.) It is easy to get people to submit to you when you have a knife or gun and are threatening their loved one. I believe they were told they wouldn’t be hurt if he got what he wanted.
Andy could have fought or run, but he was probably told nobody will get hurt if you do what I tell you to do. Run and the girl dies. Andy (IMO) would never have allowed himself to be tied up if he knew their outcome, they both would have fought like hell. Also consider they were vulnerable and taken by surprise.
He did have a gun when he raped the first girl.
It was very isolated at that time, we partied there all the time. Nobody would have heard a thing unless they were there.
My thoughts from a previous post (#505, page 26) in regards to whether there was one person, or two.
Thinking out loud..
If both were taken from the car at the same time by one person, to me, it would make sense that both would have been led from the car to the tree, Andy would have been tied up and no longer a threat, and then Cheryl led away the 100 yards away.
So, if the dogs tracked her scent from the car, why didn't they find Andy till the next day? The dog should have led LE right past Andy first, before they found Cheryl.
If in fact, the dog started tracking from the car, that says there had to be two people involved. One took Andy one way, and the other took Cheryl the other way.
This is from as previous partial post (#518, page 26) as to the exact location, and my thoughts as to whether someone was lying in wait.
I think Cheryl was stalked at the club too. I doubt he was waiting at the crime scene for her because Cheryl and Andy had only been together for a few weeks, and it's unlikely they had established a pattern of hanging at the scene. Where they were parked was not at the actual hang out, ( lovers lane) but down the road some, in a cul-de-sac. It was a wet mosquito infested night. According to the weather history, there were thunderstorms that night around 10 pm, before they left the club. I think they were followed from the club.
Correct me if I am wrong, but, I want to say the cul-de-sac where they were killed, and the "lovers lane hangout" are two separate locations?
If they have dna and suspects you would think they would run it to see if they match. Why waste time on a suspect if dna dont match? I dont understand the delay.
So maybe they were meeting somebody there
I agree my feeling is the killer stalked them from the strip club.
You care correct Rocky1 they were two separate locations - close (on the same street) but they were further down.
They were never at a strip club that night. They were at a dancing/drinking establishment - Bayou Mama's. If they were followed that night it was likely from there.