TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #4

Discussion in 'Trials' started by Cobra Jet, Sep 7, 2018.

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  1. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Your last sentence is correct. I hope you understand that as the general public is not on the jury nor are we the judge we are not part of the judicial system.

    Thus we indeed are allowed to review what facts there are and form opinions based on the reported facts.

    And what has been reported from the defendant's own mouth is at the least, probable cause for manslaughter.

    IMO she was likely wasted or overtired and recklessly shot at a shadow in an apartment that wasn't hers.

    That fits manslaughter precisely.
     


  2. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    No that's not true "lately". It's the whole purpose of the site.

    And by the way, if the public couldn't form opinions about defendants, they would be forced to do things like continue to employ a person at an elementary school who had been charged with child molestation or abuse, for example.

    And the police could not come to a conclusion during and investigation because there's been no trial.

    The prosecution could not decide to prosecute. There's been no trial after all. The prosecution could not form the opinion that a defendant is guilty of certain charges.

    We discuss crime here. We form opinions as to probable guilt or innocence prior to trial. That's what this site is for. Not lately. Always. And it is perfectly acceptable to do so.
     
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  3. Lillymac

    Lillymac Well-Known Member

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    Should this not also apply to people who have a different opinion?
     
  4. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Of course.
     
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  5. Wishbone

    Wishbone Well-Known Member

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    At this moment I have an opinion based on what little information I have seen. I only recently heard about this case and my view may change as things unfold. She was in an apartment she had no business being in and it doesn't appear she was attacked. The victim that lived in that apartment, his sanctuary, is now dead. This is not an accident that just deserves a slap on the wrist. A life has been taken. I wonder if this defendant will testify? Almost seems like she will need to tell her side of the story.
     
  6. drama_farmer

    drama_farmer "It's never just a mannequin"

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    I just had a disturbing thought. Has there been any MSM reporting about whether the victim Botham Jean was handcuffed by AG while dying? Here's an article that explains the justification for placing an injured/dying "suspect" in handcuffs or other restraints.

    Besides the emotional reaction this may generate, I wonder if the defense could use it to show either she was acting as if "on duty" or acting as a "citizen" in the killing.


    from the linked article:
    It’s standard procedure for officers at law enforcement agencies across the country to handcuff a person after shooting them or using some other type of force such as Tasers. Those incapacitated or killed by use of force may lie that way for hours, unless the handcuffs are removed for medical treatment
     
  7. Handsome Sailor

    Handsome Sailor Seize the day!

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    Grenade? Hyperbole much? It's just a simple statement of belief, my good friend. What should happen to her is whatever the jury decides. But there have been occasions in my life where I've gone in the wrong door, taken a wrong turn, so I am sympathetic to a hard-working cop who daily put her life on the line to keep her community safe. I regret Shem's loss of life, and Amber will be held accountable.
     
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  8. Rocco

    Rocco Well-Known Member

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    But he wasn't a suspect. She realized what she had done as soon as she turned on the lights---shot an innocent man in his home.
     
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  9. Rocco

    Rocco Well-Known Member

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    Going into the wrong apartment isn't the crime. It's what she decided to do after that.
     
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  10. drama_farmer

    drama_farmer "It's never just a mannequin"

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    I hear you... That's why I put the word suspect in quotes. Just exploring options for the defense.
     
  11. Handsome Sailor

    Handsome Sailor Seize the day!

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    The grandpa who accidentally dropped his granddaughter from a cruise ship
    has not been arrested, faces no charges. How is Amber's case any different?
     
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  12. CrimeDawg123

    CrimeDawg123 Well-Known Member

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    The grandpa wasn't a professional trained in cruise ship windows. That's the difference.
     
  13. Lillymac

    Lillymac Well-Known Member

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    She didn't know she was in the wrong apartment. So what did she decide to do?
     
  14. CrimeDawg123

    CrimeDawg123 Well-Known Member

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    Shoot to kill.
     
  15. NervousNellie

    NervousNellie Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult

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    IMO, the difference is the grandfather made a mistake. Full stop.

    Amber made a mistake followed by a ridiculous amount of excessive force.

    IMO.
     
  16. Lillymac

    Lillymac Well-Known Member

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    Please!!!
     
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  17. Lillymac

    Lillymac Well-Known Member

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    When she entered the apartment she thought she was in her apartment. She thoughtj he was an intruder. She told him to show his hands..he didn't. So she protected herself. I would have done the same. And I don't live on the Southside of Dallas.
     
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  18. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Right. And even if a she thought it was her apartment, it's okay to just execute someone you find in there whomis not attacking you inn any way? What if he had been the one mistaken about the apartment? IS the penalty for that death?
     
  19. CrimeDawg123

    CrimeDawg123 Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean "please!!!". That's exactly what she did.
     
  20. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Yeah it has to do with whether behavior is deemed reckless or not. Depends on the statute and jurisdiction.

    Getting wasted (assumption) and forcing your way into another person's apartment who you then shoot to death when he's not even attacking you is all kinds of reckless.

    She had a weapon. A dangerous weapon which elevates the duty of care.

    The difference could be analogous to someone who mistakes the gas for the break and plows into a group of kids, killing them, as opposed to someone driving drunk and plowing into a group of kids. Or texting and plowing into a group of kids.

    One isn't reckless. The other two are.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
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