TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #4

Discussion in 'Trials' started by Cobra Jet, Sep 7, 2018.

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  1. Hraefn

    Hraefn Verified Attorney

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    IMO, it depends.

    Has the defense shown any signs that they will try to expand the Castle Doctrine to a person who claims they thought they were in their own home? And if they do make that argument, what standard of review will apply? An objective reasonableness standard?
    IMO it's not relevant what would happen if she had been at her own home, but rather whether the defense is trying to claim her alleged belief of being in her own home as triggering the broad protection of the Castle Doctrine.
    What was or was not in Jean's apartment is completely irrelevant.
    I agree with all of this ^
    Again, really curious how this issue will play out.
     
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  2. CrimeDawg123

    CrimeDawg123 Well-Known Member

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    In Texas, there is no duty to retreat. The Texas law differs from some other states. The Texas law is here: PENAL CODE CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

    And a more layman's explanation: https://www.brodenmickelsen.com/blog/texas-stand-ground-law-explained/

    "In Texas, individuals have no duty to retreat when they have a reasonable belief they are in danger of bodily harm or death if they’re threatened in their home, in their vehicle, or at their job. To raise the Texas stand your ground law defense, the person must be able to show that they didn’t provoke the person who attacked them. They must also be able to show that they weren’t breaking any laws at the time of the incident. "​
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
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  3. BeachSky

    BeachSky Well-Known Member

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  4. sloane7777

    sloane7777 Well-Known Member

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    technically she WAS breaking the law in someone else's residence without being invited ....so there's that ....just sayin.
     
  5. sloane7777

    sloane7777 Well-Known Member

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  6. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ Believer of Miracles

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    “He was not on the road. He was not walking. He wasn’t driving. He wasn’t running,” Allison Jean told Radio Caribbean International’s show “She Speaks” in an interview released Tuesday. “Most of the other murders that you see in the United States you hear that they say ‘He had something that looked like a gun’ or ‘He had something that looked like a weapon.’ My son was just sitting on his couch waiting to watch a football match at 10 O’ clock and he did not see 10 O’ clock.”

    “When I see – especially when I see her in videos walking like a human being and I don’t have my son that I could hug and I can be with,” an emotional Allison Jean said. “So I have my moments. There are times before I go to bed that I just have to cry myself to sleep.”

    Listen to her full interview below:
    Botham Jean’s Mom Breaks Her Silence On ‘Son’s Murderer,’ Amber Guyger
     
  7. Wishbone

    Wishbone Well-Known Member

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    Police said in a news release that Hall fired Guyger after an internal investigation found the officer had engaged in "adverse conduct" when she was charged with manslaughter three days after the shooting.
    Dallas officer Amber Guyger fired after manslaughter charge for killing Botham Jean
     
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  8. CrimeDawg123

    CrimeDawg123 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. That's what I was wondering if she could even try to use stand your ground since she was unlawfully in his apt.
     
  9. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ Believer of Miracles

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    Older article:

    Lawyers representing the family revealed details of the pending lawsuit on Monday, showing exactly what Jean’s parents were hoping to accomplish with it.

    “Jean’s parents say they want their lawsuit to not just focus on how their son died, but to change how police officers are trained about when to fire their weapons,” the Dallas Morning News reported Monday afternoon.
    Details Of Botham Jean’s Family Lawsuit Against Dallas Are Revealed
     
  10. sloane7777

    sloane7777 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the ADVERSE conduct was the weed ?
    If she was fired for her conduct that night with the shooting it seems that would have to be admissible in court, they seriously need to clear up who's weed it is because naturally everyone thinks its his , the only Adverse conduct other than the weed would be her negligence , which again should be admissible.
     
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  11. Wishbone

    Wishbone Well-Known Member

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    What if she was not a police officer? If that was the case. wouldn't she have been arrested immediately? Then have her apartment, car, electronics and anything else searched asap? The victim's apartment was searched and details of contents were released to the media. However, there has been nothing forthcoming in regards to the killer's apartment being searched and she reportedly moved several days after the murder. If anything was to be found by searching her apartment, its long gone now. She should not have had preferential treatment because of her job title. There are bad seeds in every profession. IMO the beginning of this investigation was improper.
     
  12. Hraefn

    Hraefn Verified Attorney

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    The last sentence makes me wonder if there are any arguments that the defendant was by legal definition breaking and entering when she entered Jean’s apartment. I’ll have to check the statute on that.
     
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  13. Wishbone

    Wishbone Well-Known Member

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    It seems to be because she has been charged with a felony. Her pending cases against other perps have had to be dismissed for this reason.

    9 Cases Dropped After Dallas Former Officer Amber Guyger Charged With Murder

    9 Cases Dropped After Amber Guyger Was Charged With Murder
     
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  14. sloane7777

    sloane7777 Well-Known Member

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    It just Chaps my %#$# that everyone assumes (including the public /press) its his !!!
     
  15. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    Hall was standing by Guyger and the union position that Guyger would not be terminated until the investigation was completed.

    Then, Lee Merritt had church folks out protesting on Sundays, at the Dallas Cowboys stadium. Buses of church folks, in Sunday church clothes, elderly folks, marching peacefully in protest of Amber Guyger, and decision to support the shooting of Botham Jean.

    This was not the escalated marches of protest that occurred in Missouri. Lee Merritt is savvy. Riot police officers against elderly church folk isn't going to show well on CNN.

    Hall caved within a week. Guyger was terminated by Dallas PD.
     
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  16. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ Believer of Miracles

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    "As a police chief, my job is to ensure the integrity -- the highest level of integrity -- in this criminal investigation," Hall said. "And that is what I did. And I waited until the critical portion of the investigation was complete."

    But the chief did not elaborate on the "critical portion" she referred to. The police department's tweet about Guyger's firing used the term "adverse conduct."

    "The adverse conduct would be any time you're a police officer and you're arrested for the commission of any offense, but certainly for a second-degree felony offense," said Russell Wilson, a former prosecutor who is not involved in the case. "The police department could view that as being adverse to the best interest of the department."
    Dallas PD fires Officer Amber Guyger over Botham Jean shooting

     
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  17. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    Of course. The elderly church folk protesting had nothing to do with her decision.
     
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  18. CrimeDawg123

    CrimeDawg123 Well-Known Member

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  19. imstilla.grandma

    imstilla.grandma ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ Believer of Miracles

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    Guyger’s lawyers argued “prejudicial” media coverage and the actions of public officials have made it too difficult to find 12 men and women, along with 4 alternate jurors, who can show no prejudice.

    Guyger’s murder trial is set to begin Sept. 23.
    Judge Rules Murder Trial Of Former Police Officer Amber Guyger Stays In Dallas County

    Larry Collins (@LarryNBC5) on Twitter

    Earlier in the day, Guyger’s defense tactics became clearer when it was reported the fired cop’s attorneys planned to argue she was innocent of murder because she only committed what they called a “mistake of fact.” That “mistake of fact was supposed to excuse the fact that Guyger, who at that point was a police officer trained to discern between actual and perceived threats, implausibly and purportedly mistook Jean’s apartment for hers.
    Amber Guyger’s Murder Trial Won’t Move From Dallas In Quest For Justice For Botham Jean
     
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  20. mickey2942

    mickey2942 Well-Known Member

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    Nice that AG had an opportunity to talk to her attorney to get her statement correct, before she had to make a statement about the shooting to the police.

    I guess that the defense didn't think that folks in Dallas could understand complicated distinctions in the law...hmm...
     
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