TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #5

[Jax49]

How convenient is it that the LEAD investigator that believe that Amber Guyger did not break a law that ended up killing a person is the same LEAD investigator that broke a law that ended up killing someone.

Oh the irony.

No wonder he doesn’t believe amber should be charged, he also has been in a situation like this. Paying it forward? Probably, after hearing that, I’m done with this Texas Ranger.

I can't access the article. Can you give a few highlights? TIA

 

[Rocco]

I guess I’m now playing a bit of Devil’s Advocate. I don’t know about you, but if I came home and found a stranger sitting on my couch, I’d consider that a fairly large threat. Home invasion robberies are common enough where I live, my house has been broken into a couple of times, I’d feel very very threatened by a random stranger inside my home.

This has happened to people and happened to a woman I know who deliberately came home early, because she had good reason to believe that someone was entering her house. And there he was! You can bet she felt threatened. She didn’t have a weapon. But it basically upset her life - she felt compelled not only to move, but to move far enough away that this (potential) stalker could not find her. She uprooted her whole life.

The jury will have to use its own views on what constitutes a reasonable threat, but for me, most of my students, and many people I know (including most of the cops I know), finding a random stranger in my home (having obviously broken in and already committed a felony) is in and of itself...a threat.

Don’t know about you, but I don’t have a permit to carry and I don’t carry pepper spray from my car into my living room. I would be otherwise unarmed. But if I could get to a weapon, I don’t think I’d be waiting for that person to, say, try to lunge at me. In all honesty, not sure how I’d react but would feel immediate threat upon seeing an intruder.

At the same time I personally would not be prepared to use deadly force. Retreat and 911.

I have a permit to carry and do it all the time. But, I can honestly say if I came home and found someone in my house, I would not automatically shoot him. In the state I live in, there's no duty to retreat, but shooting and killing someone would be my last option. If I had to shoot someone, I would, but there would have to be a genuine, clear, imminent threat and no other choice. And I sure as heck would turn on the light to see who I was shooting and if that person had a weapon.

 

[MsFacetious]

She’s shaking her head ( no) & crying.
I think she realizes - this might not go well for her. She could of been really counting on that - Texas Rangers opinion- .
Not a win for her team today.

MOO

If they were counting on the Ranger's opinion then they should have held the 702 hearing and had him certified an expert! That is not an uncommon or secret process it's quite well known. Unless information they were not expecting came out today they should have already done that before.

Now to have him certified they will have to hold an evidentiary hearing on it, unless the state doesn't object. That is unlikely.

Did she try to aid Botham or not?

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article235457107.html

She called him bud.
That's the extent of it.
The first responders were looking for something to stop the bleeding, so Amber hadn't done anything.
Did Amber have any blood on her? I'm sure she did not.

Too bad she left her body camera at the station.

Too bad she didn't leave her weapon as well.

How convenient is it that the LEAD investigator that believe that Amber Guyger did not break a law that ended up killing a person is the same LEAD investigator that broke a law that ended up killing someone.

Oh the irony.

No wonder he doesn’t believe amber should be charged, he also has been in a situation like this. Paying it forward? Probably, after hearing that, I’m done with this Texas Ranger.

Ohhhh I HOPE that the state uses this to argue against him being an expert, or in their cross examination if he is brought in.

 

[Jax49]

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Judge's ruling disallowing the Ranger's testimony.

 

[BeachSky]

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Judge's ruling disallowing the Ranger's testimony.

So will the defense do a 705 in the middle of this trial ?
No wonder their opening was all “Texas ranger & flip flops”
IMO the judge was backing away from her chair & throwing some shade on the defense. This is so wrong. Makes me think this may be all the defense really have to work with...

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MOO

 

[MsFacetious]

I personally don’t think they should be allowed to unless new information came to light today. I think it’s unfair to the jury to delay for that reason.

Here is the info on the concept though.

https://www.txcourts.gov/All_Archived_Documents/ccaInformation/tcjiu/ppt/B-Kent.ppt

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Excuse me if I sound completely lost in this and if this is a dumb question because work was absolutely crazy today, but how do we know this information if there is a gag order?? Lol - I was kind of shocked like how does the news know this.. I’m assuming it was discussed in front of court room or ???. lol
again, my mind is completely gone :/

better go to sleep soon before I end up walking into the wrong house thinking it’s my own. #toosoon #notacomedianatall

There are no dumb questions here @VAgirlatheart
The trial was delayed getting started on Day 3. The judge was in chambers with one of the jurors. The judge came out and explained it to both sides before bringing the jury out.
Watch at ~24 min 15 sec mark

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[Wishbone]

Lol .. I completely get it.

My husband also is that type of husband who gets so bothered by the fact when we are watching ID channel when people from small towns say “it’s the type of place where people keep their door unlocked.” Every single time he has to say something. But he always has something to say so... lol

He’s so into this case, like he went to the office today and texted me that he was going to go on lunch an hour earlier, I asked if he had a meeting or something, and he literally was dead serious and said no, I’m just going on lunch when the jury goes so I don’t miss anything lol ...

Meanwhile, I couldn’t catch any of it and I work from home lol

Quiet small town living gave me a false sense of security. When my kids were young and busy running in and out of the house, the last thing on my mind was keeping the front door locked or the back doors or the garage closed for that matter. I just wanted the doors closed so the house wouldn't be full of flies, but I still ended up swatting flies a lot. They grew up and moved away and I still didn't run vigilance on the doors..until..my neighbor was the victim of a home invasion. Yes, her door was unlocked and in they came brandishing guns and demanding money. Drug addicts needing money. Needless to say, I am constantly locking doors now. Every. Single. Time. I even do it when the kids, now grown men, visit and they joke about how compulsive I am about it. I guess some men don't see the threat as vividly. But what happened to Botham proves one little click of a lock can save you or at least give you time to respond. I can't imagine what went through his mind, to be caught unaware relaxing in his home in his underwear watching TV, when that door opened and a moment later he felt the bullet that ended his life.

 

[mickey2942]

There will be civil trial I'm sure or at least a settlement. Will she pay?? or the city of Dallas?? off duty or always on duty a factor ??

The civil lawsuit against the city will focus on the issue of training police officers. Police officers are trained to kill first, then ask questions.

The issue here, is that Guyger didn't follow protocol, she didn't see a weapon, she wasn't in imminent danger, she didn't call for backup. There are many things that she didn't do.

It will be interesting to see the results of this trial, and the subsequent effect on the civil lawsuit.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Quiet small town living gave me a false sense of security. When my kids were young and busy running in and out of the house, the last thing on my mind was keeping the front door locked or the back doors or the garage closed for that matter. I just wanted the doors closed so the house wouldn't be full of flies, but I still ended up swatting flies a lot. They grew up and moved away and I still didn't run vigilance on the doors..until..my neighbor was the victim of a home invasion. Yes, her door was unlocked and in they came brandishing guns and demanding money. Drug addicts needing money. Needless to say, I am constantly locking doors now. Every. Single. Time. I even do it when the kids, now grown men, visit and they joke about how compulsive I am about it. I guess some men don't see the threat as vividly. But what happened to Botham proves one little click of a lock can save you or at least give you time to respond. I can't imagine what went through his mind, to be caught unaware relaxing in his home in his underwear watching TV, when that door opened and a moment later he felt the bullet that ended his life.

Yesterday I was remembering that story made even more famous by Truman Capote of the family killed in their farmhouse by people who walked through their unlocked doors.

But in this case BJ was behind one locked door - the locked door to the building, just not the interior locked door to his apartment. You typically feel safe around your nearby neighbors.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

<snipped>
She called him bud.
That's the extent of it.
The first responders were looking for something to stop the bleeding, so Amber hadn't done anything.
Did Amber have any blood on her? I'm sure she did not.

She called him "Bud". She did nothing, not even call him "Sir".

 

[YESorNO]

I don't know if the Ytubes of the trial have been posted- the thread goes so fast.
(please excuse if they have been posted already)

Amber Guyger Trial Prosecution Opening Statement 09/23/19

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Amber Guyger Trial Defense Opening Statement 09/23/19

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Amber Guyger Trial Day 1 Witnesses Allisa Findley & Sgt Robert Watson

Sep 24, 2019

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[YESorNO]

Amber Guyger Trial Day 1 Witnesses Sgt Robert Watson & Ofc Martin Rivera

Sep 24, 2019

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Amber Guyger Trial Defense Motion for Mistrial Due to DA Talking to Media

Sep 24, 2019

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Amber Guyger Trial 911 Call

Sep 24, 2019

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[YESorNO]

Amber Guyger Trial Day 2 Admitting Evidence, Karla Rivera, Sgt Stephen Williams, Ofc Michael Lee Body Cam Footage

Sep 24, 2019

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Amber Guyger Trial Day 2 Witnesses Ofc Torey Dugas Body Cam Footage & Sgt Breanna Valentine Dash

Sep 24, 2019

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Amber Guyger Trial Day 2 Witnesses Joshua Brown, Mr Jones, Bharath Madamanchi, Ranger Davi Armstrong

Sep 24, 2019

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[YESorNO]

Amber Guyger Trial Day 3 Witnesses Ranger David Armstrong - Crime Scene Photos

Sep 25, 2019

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Amber Guyger Trial Day 3 Witnesses Ranger David Armstrong, Christin Noebel & Taydra Jones

Sep 25, 2019

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Amber Guyger Trial Day 3 Witnesses Whitney Hughes, Alyssa Kinsey, Shanel Bly & Dr Waleska Castro

Sep 25, 2019

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[YESorNO]

Amber Guyger Trial Day 3 Witnesses ME Dr Chester Gwin & Robyn Carr Crime Scene Photos

Sep 25, 2019

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[wyome]

I just watched the body cam video on the news of LE trying to revive Botham, and heard the 911 call.

I will honestly say that I do now believe her, that this was a tragic mistake. Her grief was real.
None the less, there are penalties for tragic mistakes too.

I was wrong. She expressed incredible remorse. Watching the rescue attempt was absolutely heartbreaking. RIP dear man.

: (

Amateur opinion and speculation

That 911 call was very hard to listen to. I commend you for expressing this. You're a fair and thoughtful human being.

 

[Via Marple]

The only tragic accident that I can see from this week's evidence so far, was that door that somehow was closed but not locked.

I wonder if Botham was actually aware of it. Especially if it used to just shut and lock. Does the data show when it was last locked?

I haven't been able to find a news report with more details of the autopsy. So I guess I will have to watch the video above.

There is still much sleuthing to be done. I am not prepared to draw a conclusion yet. Thanks again for all the informative posts.

 

[BeachSky]

I personally don’t think they should be allowed to unless new information came to light today. I think it’s unfair to the jury to delay for that reason.

Here is the info on the concept though.

https://www.txcourts.gov/All_Archived_Documents/ccaInformation/tcjiu/ppt/B-Kent.ppt

Thank you for this information.
“TRIAL JUDGE IS THE GATEKEEPER”
Possibly this tragic case will set an example of how to navigate future cases.

 

[sloane7777]

The "race card" is not a card. It's an unfortunate reality for black people in our nation. The data and research/studies are super clear that how dangerous or culpable a person is perceived is based on skin color. The darker = the more dangerous and guilty and the harsher sentences. Thus, black people are treated more harshly from the time they're small. Hence the arrests recently of two little girls in Florida for throwing tantrums.

Another example, when a white male teen is caught with pot in a state where it's illegal, cops take him home for a talking to. If it's a black teen, there's a life altering arrest instead.

I can go on and on.

A black man told to get his ID and reaches for it after telling the cop where it is, is shot to death. This doesn't happen as much with white people. Unless they're mentally ill.

It's a perception thing that is drilled into our heads. And it's not even about being bad people or hating others due to their ethnicity. It's mostly subconscious.

That being said, I don't know that she could even see his skin color when she entered. I don't know if it was well lit.

But I do believe that if she was a black civilian and he was white, this thread would probably not be here. He would have been charged and there would be little sympathy or cries about what a tragic mistake was made or how he had a bunch of pot in his apartment.

Race matters in the law in our nation. Both in terms of how an accused is treated and how a victim is treated. The research is thorough.

10000 percent agree with you its a fact.