GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #6

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I understand that when CA got rid of it, offenders with DP sentences were commuted to life sentences. I guess that doesn't get re-instated when they changed it back (Manson offenders example).

Does CA actually carry it out? Or is it like a Pennsylvania where they have the DP, but it is almost never carried out unless you have a defendant that begs for it.

That's true. But it was everyone before 1972. They do indeed sentence people to death. We have 737 on death row. 13 executed since 1976.
 
Well, she'll be wearing white in Gatesville.

Yuck. They are more yellowish. And you don't get your own clothes, you turn them in for laundry, and get other clothes back. It is gross. And the lice! Scabies.

I taught school at the State prison for a few years. I went straight to the gym, changed clothes showered before I got home. Great incentive to never miss the gym.
 
But what IS historic use? There haven’t been many cases where someone walked into someone else’s home, chose to kill him, and claimed to be justified in that choice. People texting, or driving drunk, don’t make a deliberate decision to kill someone.

That is a good point. I kind of hadn't thought about it that way. If you're going to decide to kill someone you better not be making a mistake. Very good differentiation that hadn't made sense to me before now.
 
BBM. I agree law enforcement officers have to rely on their training and experience. In this case, KG did neither which is why she was found guilty.

JMO
Yes, and I elaborated on that in the following sentence
 
I'm glad she was found guilty, I think an innocent verdict would have set a bad precedent. That being said, I now find myself feeling some pity for her. She made very poor judgements that night and faces a possible life behind bars now. I'd be happy for her sentence to be on the shorter end, perhaps a minimum of 10 years. Whatever the sentence I hope Bothams family feels a sense of justice that allows som3 healing, i can't fathom losing someone like this. If Amber sees freedom at some stage I hope she goes on to do some good in this world in his honour.
 
Can you explain? What is DOC Classification? What would be different for her in jail vs. prison? TIA
~imo
Prisons have more funding and human resources. Increasing security and rehabilitation services to prevent recidivism. Programs structured deliberately for assimilation into controlled facility environment and social dynamics.

Classification is determined though correctional inmate assessment. Criteria involves convictions, priors, mental and physical variables, and substance abuse among other mandates.
 
I'm glad she was found guilty, I think an innocent verdict would have set a bad precedent. That being said, I now find myself feeling some pity for her. She made very poor judgements that night and faces a possible life behind bars now. I'd be happy for her sentence to be on the shorter end, perhaps a minimum of 10 years. Whatever the sentence I hope Bothams family feels a sense of justice that allows som3 healing, i can't fathom losing someone like this. If Amber sees freedom at some stage I hope she goes on to do some good in this world in his honour.
I feel the same way as you. It would have been a horrible precedent to set. I feel sorry for her knowing how it will be for her in prison. That's not absolving her of anything - she deserves to be in prison. And the way I feel pales in comparison to the sorrow I have for Botham Jean's family. I hope she dedicates her life to making restitution to his family, and trying to do something productive and good with her life. I am not sure how many years she should serve, really. In the end, would it make a difference to his family if it were on the longer or shorter end of the 5-99 range?
 
As to her making the choice to enter into the apartment...At this point she had noticed the door wasn’t completely closed and she testified she heard “movement” inside as she was inserting her key into the lock, which caused the door open further. I think the evidence did prove that the deadbolt “female” plate had been altered or bent when it was installed and would account for why the door did not shut all the way.

So, at this point, and forgive me for this description but it’s the best way I can explain it... I would say it’s reasonable that her adrenaline and heart rate would have already skyrocketed. She still believes this is her apartment, although it’s not, this is what she testified that she perceived.

From there, assuming her testimony is accurate, it is almost like physics...”an object in motion...”. I don’t want to use the word autopilot because that isn’t quite it. She has already started this sequence of movements or choices or actions so I can understand and attest to that fear and not having the time to think of other options. Yes! She had other options. And in an ideal situation she may have chosen one of those. But, this goes back to perception and what Amber Guyger was thinking and feeling right then.

IMO, it is simply not as cut and dry as most would assume. That is my opinion
 
Chris Jenks, an Associate Professor of Law and the Director of the Criminal Clinic, said it’s clear the jury didn’t buy Guyger’s defense that she thought she was in her own apartment.

I’m glad to be in good company with my theory. State def put that into question and I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the jury didn’t buy the mistake of fact defense in its entirety. It was quite unbelievable.
 
She is sitting alone crying. I do not hate or despise this woman. I do believe she murdered him. I do hope she is feeling as alone as he did. I believe that ultimately makes this punishment just.

What was her motive? I ask because I did not get to follow along as closely as I'd hoped. TIA
 
I noticed that when AG was told that she was found "Guilty" of murder, that no one reached out to touch her shoulder. Not family members, not her defense team, no one.

I was actually surprised that AG didn't get pregnant, she would have been more sympathetic. I truly believe that she has been surrounded by people who kept telling her she would beat it. Maybe she thought she would.
 
What was her motive? I ask because I did not get to follow along as closely as I'd hoped. TIA

She was unreasonably distracted by texting and thought he was in her apartment. Her motive was to kill an intruder however she failed to follow police protocol in doing so and TX allows a murder charge due to her intent to kill, despite thinking he was an intruder. Because her mistake was not reasonable. So they found she was more than reckless.
 
Yes and the lack of charges there makes sense. She was actually in her own home. An intruder actually did try to break in. She was in her Castle. He was breaking in. She wasn't.
Agreed. I was simply pointing out that people do mistakingly go to the wrong home and bad things happen. This is not the first case and won’t be the last. The 2 situations do not compare in the charges and lack there of. Some commenters were saying they can make it home in almost any state of mind. I’m sure this guy thought that too. Sad that it cost him his life.
 
I’ve followed this case since the morning after it happened and I’ve almost counted down the days to this trial. I don’t know exactly what I expected but this was not it. Obviously it has been an emotionally charged year or so and public conclusions have been drawn since day one. Very polarizing opinions. I formed what I considered reasonably logical opinions of what happened that night based on the only facts made known to the public at that time. After watching every day of the trial - some days I had to regroup and finish that days testimony on the following day, because it was all difficult to see - I was speechless when the verdict was read. And I don’t know how or why the jury reached the conclusion that it did however, when I look at everything presented to the jury, testimony, all of that, I am having a hard time understanding exactly how 12 jurors were able to take all of those same exhibits as well as having listened to the testimony of the witnesses, discussed the case amongst themselves and read through every instruction given to them by the court pertaining to the charges. I have no doubt that other than the Judge reading the documents in their entirety to them, that they each read it again outside of the court room. I even understand the questions asked of the Judge during deliberations. What I am not certain of is that each of the jurors understood everything they were provided and how to apply it to this particular case. I have served on juries (none quite like this) and I’m also very familiar with the Texas Penal Code. I don’t intend to insinuate anyone of the jurors are lacking intelligence or the ability to comprehend things concerning the task they were each selected to and felt confident that they could perform. But I must say, serving on a jury in any type of case is something that I have personally seen too many people take very unserious. This was a very very difficult case and I don’t envy any one person who played a roll in it, especially the jurors. Murder/Manslaughter/Negligent Homicide...a few of the most debatable charges in our Penal Code! I can probably recite all of them in their entirety but it took me a bit of time to fully understand each of them. And I still look back at them to refresh myself. As I’ve seen first hand, to say that 12 likely untrained citizens (and AGAIN I just want to be clear that I’m not speaking to the abilities of these jurors) thoroughly read those instructions and understood them well enough to reach this verdict so quickly is far reaching IMO. I think this is a problem throughout the entire judicial system. I will have to rewatch the reading of the indictment and things because I didn’t catch every thing in addition to the main offenses. Either way I think some of the main issues at hand were overlooked. I don’t believe that anyone can honestly say that Mr. Jean deserved to die. I also don’t believe anyone can truthfully say that Ms. Guyger went to that apartment with any malicious intent or plan to take anyone’s life. I believe a sufficient number of witnesses testified to the building and parking layout and how common it was for people to park on the wrong floor, walk the halls of the wrong floor and even easily enter the wrong apartment. The red mat...I don’t want to even touch that subject. I even agree that she did testify that she chose to discharge her firearm and her training has taught her that those shot(s) should be fired with the intention of killing the person or thing you are aiming for. This is a crucial, if not the most crucial bit of information that I don’t think people are taking into account. Perception. We can not possibly know what Amber Guyger was thinking in those few moments. We can also not know what Botham Jean was thinking during that time. Nor will we ever really know what happened. Training and experience is all law enforcement officers have to rely on. Common sense, “street smarts”, etc. all add those things, but when it comes down to the heat of the moment, a real life situation, human nature is going to take over. Before ANY thing else we are human. Some officers may have handled the situation very differently and we wouldn’t be discussing this. On the other hand some officers may have done the exact opposite of that and things been much worse. All officers had the same training and all were fairly experienced in similar high-intensity situations, but the one thing none of them are able to reasonably control is how their mind and body react when adrenaline is pumping through the body. I have been in situations where I did chose to “retreat” and I got hurt. When a few of the witnesses were describing this tunnel vision phenomenon...that’s a good way to describe it. IMO there is no tunnel there are no blinders or hallway, I couldn’t tell you what else was around me other than who or what I perceive as a threat to me, my safety and my life in those moments. And those few moments can seem like an eternity or they can be over in the blink of an eye. It is not something you can understand unless you’ve experienced it. Even then, it is different for everyone and in different situations. They mentioned short term memory loss. I think that’s a fair definition. I’ve been involved in spontaneous uses of force and was shocked to see video footage or hear witness accounts because of the details I could not recall. I guess they come back over time, or could, it’s hard to say. I’ve even sworn to my own statements about things I said and did that I actually did not say or do. Was I lying? No. I swore that those things happened because I was certain that they had. It’s extremely hard to describe. Of course these are my experiences. I do think it’s important for a jury to hear these things. Because it is very impossible to fathom otherwise. It’s very easy to say what she should have done, and I don’t doubt that she replays that in her head constantly. Hindsight is always 20/20.

It’s too late to scrap this entire post, it probably makes no sense. I won’t call this tragedy an accident but more a mistake. A bad mistake with horrible consequences. IMO, there will never be true justice here. My heart breaks for two families. :(

•MMcG•

I am going to jump in on just one comment. You said that if she had done things differently, things could have been far worse. (If I understood you correctly.) May I ask what possible outcome could have been far worse?
 
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