GUILTY TX - Former Dallas Police Officer Amber Guyger, indicted for Murder of Botham Shem Jean #6

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Hraefn said:
Again thanks @gitana1 ! It was so nice having another attorney here to bounce thoughts off of regarding the legalese. TX has some different practices and language, and I think we have a really great discussion in here. [OT I’m a she :) ]
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Thanks so much! We learned a lot from both of you during this trial. Hraefn, you were very helpful in providing regular coverage and comments as it went along.
 
I’m going to share an opinion many here may not agree with, but I genuinely believe AG. I believe she thought she parked on her floor, she thought she was at her apartment, she thought there was an intruder, and she thought she had every right to use deadly force to protect her home (I do not think self defense applied to her decision personally) under TX law. After watching the trial I believe she made a huge mistake and completely realizes it and feels awful about it. Whether it’s for herself, for Jean, or both, I sincerely believe she feels awful and parts of me have pity for her. While I don’t carry a firearm, there are definitely times in my own life that I have made huge mistakes that could have ended horribly.

I also think, even assuming the above, that she could legally be found guilty of murder under TX statutes. Her beliefs and mistakes have been found by the jury to be unreasonable, and she admitted she intended to kill Jean when she fired her weapon. That makes her guilty of murder under TX law. Period.

IMO she will get short time, 5-10 with probably half or more being probation/parole.

All JMO.
 
Bennettfit said:
Unless she's segregated from the general population the length of her sentence is a moot point.
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I've been digging around. I think she will be headed to the Christina Melton Crain prison unit in Gatesville, TX. This is a notoriously horrible place. There are many notable women who've been incarcerated there. I would guess that AG will be separated from the general population? I don't really know how that works.
 
Does anyone think it's possible that some of the jurors agreed to go with murder with the understanding that the prison time would be lenient. Were they allowed to even discuss punishment when considering the verdict?
 
Murder in Texas is based on "intent to kill." She stated from the stand more than once she intended to kill. She used those words! She also stated she realized someone was in "her apartment" before she entered. She had other options rather than entering and shooting. To me the it was obviously murder based on these two facts. It is a sad situation all the way around.

becrietz said:
I have not followed this case at all. Just read the news story and was shocked to see all the people shouting justice was served. I am honestly confused and have come here to see what I am missing. From what I have gathered this woman believed she was entering her apartment and an unknown man was in her apartment and she shot and killed him. How is that murder? Manslaughter maybe but murder? It seems to me to be a horrible mistake that she made not murder. Should she get punished? Yes she killed someone. But a drunk driver that gets in a wreck and kills someone does not get charged with murder. She wasn't even intoxicated. Even a person in a car accident that is at fault for running a red light and kills someone does not get charged with murder. This is what I am confused about. As I said I have not followed this case and am curious what I am missing. I understand he is black but I think the same thing would have happened if he was any other race. He was a unknown man in a woman's house.
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Bennettfit said:
When in the presence of police I think Dominque, feels quite the opposite of protected.
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I'm sure the people that has family violence charges against him obviously feel like they need protection around him. His last big demonstration cost 7 officers their lives. I'll always remember that.
 
Hraefn said:
I’m going to share an opinion many here may not agree with, but I genuinely believe AG. I believe she thought she parked on her floor, she thought she was at her apartment, she thought there was an intruder, and she thought she had every right to use deadly force to protect her home (I do not think self defense applied to her decision personally) under TX law. After watching the trial I believe she made a huge mistake and completely realizes it and feels awful about it. Whether it’s for herself, for Jean, or both, I sincerely believe she feels awful and parts of me have pity for her. While I don’t carry a firearm, there are definitely times in my own life that I have made huge mistakes that could have ended horribly.

I also think, even assuming the above, that she could legally be found guilty of murder under TX statutes. Her beliefs and mistakes have been found by the jury to be unreasonable, and she admitted she intended to kill Jean when she fired her weapon. That makes her guilty of murder under TX law. Period.

IMO she will get short time, 5-10 with probably half or more being probation/parole.

All JMO.
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Well said and I'm right there with you.
 
Lead prosecutor Jason Hermus also hammered Guyger for entering the apartment “to find the threat” rather than back away and seek cover or call for officer assistance over her police radio. He also argued she did not render enough first aid to Jean.

Guyger said she performed a “little” CPR and a sternum rub on Jean.

Hermus, the lead prosecutor, pointed out she never used first aid supplies from the backpack she had when she shot Jean. Guyger testified that her mind was racing while on the phone with a 911 operator. She said it didn’t cross her mind that she had first aid supplies in her backpack.
Amber Guyger is Found Guilty of Murder in the Shooting Death of Botham Jean in His Apartment
 
Cryptic said:
Though I respect your position as an attorney, I am thinking that such appeals appear to be permissible:

For example, here is an example of judge reducing a murder conviction to manslaughter:
Bullets for the Bully

My guess is that if the judge can reject a conviction for a certain charge and apply a lesser charge, then an appellate argument that the charge did not fit the circumstances (did not fit historical use) can also be made.
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That's incorrect. You may be thinking of not sufficient evidence to convict? That's possible grounds to appeal. But that's based on what comes out at trial. Not on charging decisions.
 
Hraefn said:
I’m going to share an opinion many here may not agree with, but I genuinely believe AG. I believe she thought she parked on her floor, she thought she was at her apartment, she thought there was an intruder, and she thought she had every right to use deadly force to protect her home (I do not think self defense applied to her decision personally) under TX law. After watching the trial I believe she made a huge mistake and completely realizes it and feels awful about it. Whether it’s for herself, for Jean, or both, I sincerely believe she feels awful and parts of me have pity for her. While I don’t carry a firearm, there are definitely times in my own life that I have made huge mistakes that could have ended horribly.

I also think, even assuming the above, that she could legally be found guilty of murder under TX statutes. Her beliefs and mistakes have been found by the jury to be unreasonable, and she admitted she intended to kill Jean when she fired her weapon. That makes her guilty of murder under TX law. Period.

IMO she will get short time, 5-10 with probably half or more being probation/parole.

All JMO.
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I think it's perfectly possible to believe that she made it to his apartment by 100% mistake, but her reaction to that was unreasonable and qualified the murder conviction. I would say a large number of crimes involve both mistakes and unreasonable/unlawful responses.
 
The case of Amber Guyger, who lost her job on the police force as a result, sparked street protests after prosecutors initially opted to charge the white woman with the lesser crime of manslaughter.

The death was one of a series of killings that stirred the U.S. debate over police use of force against black Americans. Here’s a look at some other recent high-profile cases:
Factbox: In Dallas, rare conviction for police officer who shot unarmed black man
 
CrimeDawg123 said:
I've been digging around. I think she will be headed to the Christina Melton Crain prison unit in Gatesville, TX. This is a notoriously horrible place. There are many notable women who've been incarcerated there. I would guess that AG will be separated from the general population? I don't really know how that works.
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My understanding is the jury is not to consider prison time/punishment when deciding guilt. Now, whether or not they do is a different story. I really think this jury is going to hand down a harsh sentence.
 
wyome said:
Does anyone think it's possible that some of the jurors agreed to go with murder with the understanding that the prison time would be lenient. Were they allowed to even discuss punishment when considering the verdict?
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I don't think that's the case. She'd better prepare herself with the very real possibility that she'll die in prison.
 
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