TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe' WhtFem 91UFTX, 14-16, Nov'80 *GRAPHIC* #2

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by KT Can, Feb 28, 2009.

  1. daisy6441

    daisy6441 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I have never seen a mention of her having any type of bag or purse with her. Only descriptions of clothing. That is something I find strange. I know there are girls who don't carry purses but you would think a girl who was wearing heels would be the type of girl to carry a purse. What we know from the police is that she asked the waitress for directions. They have never said if she asked for anything else and there is no mention of her buying anything at either place she stopped. Its possible that information wasn't released.
     
  2. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

    Messages:
    7,361
    Likes Received:
    15,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's a good callout Daisy. Purses were always carried in that era, and ranged from a boho-hippie sack to leather tooled to everything in between - but everyone carried them. The Perp most likely took it and threw it out elsewhere so that her identity couldn't easily be obtained...it worked.

    Perhaps it would be worthy to try the needle in haystack of attempting to figure out how to find reports of found purses along the highway within 100 miles each way of where she was found. Probably an impossible task.

    Amateur opinion and speculation
     
    Laughing, daisy6441 and Suglo like this.
  3. detective24-7

    detective24-7 Active Member

    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    33
    I find that strange as well. Given her age range, it seems likely she would have a purse; especially if it were true she were meeting up with someone - you would want that to carry things to freshen up or to keep things in there to feel "prepared." The more I have been thinking about it lately, for some reason I don't think everything or all information on this case is being shared or updated. I don't know if it's intentional or not.
     
    daisy6441 and rosesfromangels like this.
  4. daisy6441

    daisy6441 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    2,468
    Trophy Points:
    93
    If she was on the younger end of the age estimation its possible she wouldn't have any ID anyway. Not everyone got their driver's licence at 16 either. I remember when our school first started giving us ID cards but my daughters go there now and don't have them. Its also possible she dropped out of school and wouldn't carry an ID around if she didn't need it anymore. I'm not sure that finding a bag would have lead them anywhere but it still makes me wonder that she wasn't carrying one. My thought was that if she was hitchhiking she wouldn't have left it with a stranger when she went in to ask for directions. However, if she knew the person she might leave it in the car while she went inside the gas station.
    The car she first got out of was seen and described to police but as far as we know it wasn't found. Honestly, the driver could have been anyone traveling on hwy 45. Its the main route from Dallas to Galveston. They could have just as easily been a local. I'm not sure how big it was back then but the college would bring in people from other parts of the state and probably the country. The place where she was found is pretty isolated (as isolated as a heavily used highway can be). There aren't any houses or buildings to be seen in that area. I'm not sure if there are pictures from that time but the widening of the highway changed the layout. She was found north of Huntsville so she was even farther away from where she said she was going. I read somewhere that the gas station owner said she walked away from there. That doesn't mean the driver of the car didn't pick her back up later.
    Something else I wondered was if there were any reports of people leaving hotel rooms suddenly in the night. The killer might have stopped to spend the night but decided to flee after the murder.
     
    detective24-7 likes this.
  5. Jdart14

    Jdart14 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    932
    Trophy Points:
    93
    ....on my mind today. Hope everyone is doing well.
     
  6. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

    Messages:
    7,361
    Likes Received:
    15,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, I think about this case and it really tugs at my heart. She looks so very young to me...twelve to fourteen is my guess. The brutality of the attack, the specific manner of the sexual assault, and the vicious beating and bite speak to animalistic rage.

    Her PM haunts me, as the suffering of her last moments on earth are so evident.

    I pray her DNA studies lead to answers, and this child can be identified. So horrific, so heartbreaking.
     
    Laughing, Triss, Jdart14 and 2 others like this.
  7. detective24-7

    detective24-7 Active Member

    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    33
    On my mind too. I had a dream about her last night and she was trying to say something about her shoes that were found with her.
     
    WyomingSkyAngel, Laughing and Jdart14 like this.
  8. Paul B.

    Paul B. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    479
    Trophy Points:
    63
    the face in her PM photos is that of a child not an older teen or young adult woman.
     
  9. Paul B.

    Paul B. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    479
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Any of WCJD's friends from school, Girl Scouts (if she was a Scout) etc etc will be in their mid-fifties by now.
     
    Triss, Jdart14 and rosesfromangels like this.
  10. Sweetluv

    Sweetluv Active Member

    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    113
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Was it ever mentioned why she went into the diner? Did the waitress say if she ate, to use the restroom, or just to sit down?
    And how long was she there for?
     
  11. detective24-7

    detective24-7 Active Member

    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    33
    From what I've read, she went in to get directions to the Ellis Prison Unit as a result of getting lost from the previous place she was seen getting directions. I haven't read or come across anything saying if she did more while she was there (eat, sit, chat, restroom) or long her stop there was but I would like to know that as well. It seemed she was in hurry so I do think she only stopped for directions and nothing else.
     
  12. detective24-7

    detective24-7 Active Member

    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Which would make her parents and other relatives even older - that's what worries me. The chance we have of a family member coming forward, recognizing her, us finding them, etc is dwindling with time just by them getting older and natural aging increasing the chance of them passing away and losing a possible link of identifying her. Staying positive and optimistic though :)
     
    Jdart14 likes this.
  13. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

    Messages:
    7,361
    Likes Received:
    15,838
    Trophy Points:
    113
    IMO, a familial match with Ancestry or similar is the best chance of solving this. I do my best to stay respectful, but I struggle with understanding how these Does (especially the young ones) don't have family seeking them. Or does she...

    Amateur opinion and speculation
     
  14. cherrymeg

    cherrymeg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    Likes Received:
    3,596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think DNA is the best bet. If she was in foster care or she wasn't in a stable home it's possible she slipped through the cracks. If she was living with grandparents or relatives and maybe didn't have parents or siblings in the picture so there wasn't as much pressure to find her. JMHO. That doesn't mean cousins, aunts, uncles, friends don't remember her. I think DNA could really work.
     
  15. detective24-7

    detective24-7 Active Member

    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    33
    I struggle with it too. I can't comprehend in Doe cases how they can be unidentified/unclaimed for so long. It breaks my heart. Not every child is fortunate enough to have family or parents that care and love them unconditionally. She could be a product of an irresponsible/unloving parent. I grew up with an alcoholic father who was always home/around but given the scenario I ever went missing or ran away, I don't doubt for a second it would take him weeks or months to care or notice I was gone and by that time he would most likely have been "meh, if she's been gone this long without calling or coming back, i'm sure she's found a place"
     
    GarAndTeed and rosesfromangels like this.
  16. Paul B.

    Paul B. Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    479
    Trophy Points:
    63
    My sister says one tip drilled into her from a young age was "if he puts you in the boot, kick out the tail lights.
     
    rosesfromangels likes this.
  17. sunnynz

    sunnynz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,016
    Likes Received:
    1,063
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And these days all cars legally have to have a lever inside the boot/trunk
     
    ilovepierre and rosesfromangels like this.
  18. TmmEye

    TmmEye Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    569
    Trophy Points:
    93
    NCMU1104365c1.jpg
    Thinking about you sweetie <3
     
    carbuff, FireOwl9, Suglo and 2 others like this.
  19. janne

    janne New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Sorry if I am moving things slightly OT, but I have often wondered about a link between the case of WCJD and the unsolved murder of Janelle Johnson in Wyoming in 1983.

    This is a case that has frequently been included on lists of the Great Basin murders - there is a WS thread, although no mention of Janelle on it.

    There's very little available online about this case, (I will link to a couple of sources that I found at the bottom of this post) however there appear to be several similarities in the respective killers MO:
    - both victims were apparently abducted while travelling alone and could have been viewed as vulnerable
    - both victims were sexually assaulted with an instrument
    - bite marks on the shoulders of both victims
    - both victims killed by manual strangulation (although there is a suggestion in one source that Janelle Johnson may have been strangled with a belt or ligature of some sort)
    - both victims bodies were recovered without their clothing and personal effects

    There are a couple of significant differences that may rule out a serial offender - the distance between the 2 casescase starters is extreme, in addition, it appears that Janelle may have been bound by her killer and attempts at least were made to conceal her body, whereas WCJD's body was fairly brazenly deposited by her killer or killers - these are quite significant differences in methodology, however it's possible the killer, if the cases were to be linked, may have refined their MO or become more sophisticated over time.

    In the case of Janelle LE had what they viewed as a strong suspect, who later relocated to Houston.

    The 2 sources with the most info on Janelle Johnson are annoyingly quite contradictory in some aspects:
    Janelle Johnson
    Wayback Machine
     
    Jim_M, Bit of hope, wordsick and 2 others like this.
  20. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo SomeoneSomewhere KnowsSomething

    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    205
    Trophy Points:
    33
    WOW! First off, I want to commend all of you for the yearssssss you’ve dedicated to Ms WCJD!! I’m not sure where to start, as my mind is racing after spending about 2 weeks deep diving into her case! I’ll try! Let’s see...I’ve been working on a Jane Doe out of Brookhaven MS (1989)...she has a very small thread on WS and about the same amount of information everywhere else I’ve looked. Somehow, and I DO know, just can’t process at the time, her case led me to WCJD’s. Which have both somehow led me to HLL and a Jane Doe from my hometown (which I only heard of a few months back). There is also a thread here on that one but I can not think of how it’s titled! I want to say it has “Hale County, TX or Plainview” in the title, but I have commented on that one as well. Nonetheless, I’ve tried speed reading through this VERY informative thread and done some FB browsing and a few (thousands of) hours browsing through newspaper archives, etc. There are too many similarities and too many things I’ve come across while researching these cases (maybe a few more, esp linked to the Killing Fields) for it to be coincidence. If so, I will humbly eat crow and do a little better next time! (Unlikely) ;) I am also extremely familiar with the Texas Prison System and had a few thoughts about the Ellis Unit angle. Like I said, I do NOT know where to begin, I know a fresh set of eyes is great, but it’s also (LBH) a little frustrating getting a fresh Chatty Cathy who repeats and questions the same things from thread 1, comment 67!

    Briefly, some things that have come up in at least 2 or more of the cases I mentioned:
    -Late model 70s light blue sedan (thought to be Chrysler Córdoba
    -Panty hose (alleged by convicted murderer in MS Jane Doe to have been NEW in the package—there is VERY GOOD reason to believe this was a false confession and the murder involved 2+ people...but Jane was strangled with new panty hose)
    -MS Jane Doe was found at a roadside stop by a truck driver (unknown name)
    -MS Jane Doe was thought to have been traveling with a carnival/fair
    -MS Jane Doe was found nude w/only one men’s tube sock
    -MS Jane Doe was allegedly picked up in NOLA/MS-LA border
    -WCJD was first spotted by truck driver named Rhodes (who IIRC was traveling through/to or from Friendswood TX- Laura Smither, whose Killer was convicted, happened to be kidnapped from Friendswood and was found in the area of the Killing Fields)
    -I have read/heard in more than one place that Rhodes had a photo/s of I BELIEVE WCJD and a couple of more (I will have to check my files, so don’t quote me on that)

    I’m exhausted and can’t thibk of what else I’ve come up with! I apologize if I sound completely delusional...it is because I am! !!! But if anyone wants to pick my brain about some of these things , I can probably explain a little better!! (There is also a prison theory I want to look a little more into that is quite interesting)!

    I’m really invested in WCJD now, and hope that I can help get her closer to her family!! Thanks again for all of your hard work!!!

    ETA: Bite mark!!!

    •MMcG•
    {Someone Somewhere knows Something}
     
    Jim_M, detective24-7, Jdart14 and 3 others like this.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice