TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe' WhtFem 91UFTX, 14-16, Nov'80 *GRAPHIC* #2

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by KT Can, Feb 28, 2009.

  1. cherrymeg

    cherrymeg Well-Known Member

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    Could the person she asked for directions have misremembered that conversation by the time they spoke with LE?
     
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  2. RookieInvestigator

    RookieInvestigator Well-Known Member

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    Huntsville has a college...She was possibly seen with a couple of guys..I wonder if LE went to the college to find out if anyone gave her a ride or saw her...

    I recall hearing about Autry, a younger man on Texas death row...Did anyone already suggest Charles Francis Rumbaugh as the person she went to see...He committed his crime at 17 & was sentenced to death...He was from San Angelo, TX...

    In 1972 the Supreme Court declared the death penalty unconstitutional...It was reinstated around 1976....All inmates on death row (including those in jail) were resentenced...That's how Kenneth McDuff would eventually receive parole and Charles Manson was resentenced to LWOP....Texas didn't execute another prison until 1982 (1st inmate in the US killed with lethal injection)...

    If WCJD went to the Ellis Unit in 1980, I don't think they had very many inmates...Whatever crime they committed had to happen a few years prior...

    **Just before Rumbaugh's execution he wrote a final statement...He said it could be read in 13 years...Just wondering if LE read it and what did he say...
     
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  3. RookieInvestigator

    RookieInvestigator Well-Known Member

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    **
    Sorry it took so long to find the video...I watch a lot of documentaries and I couldn't remember what YT channel it was on...Not all have info on the killing of his mother, landlord and Toole's niece...Another thing I forgot about the first time I watched it, but Henry Lee Lucas drew pics of his alleged victims...

     
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  4. rainwaterstill

    rainwaterstill Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't wait 13 years to read it if I was LE. I would read it as the needle was being inserted, and make sure the killer knew it was being read at that moment. Hopefully LE did the same.
     
  5. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo SomeoneSomewhere KnowsSomething

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  6. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo SomeoneSomewhere KnowsSomething

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    Another interesting article I stumbled upon during some research. Carol of course is not WCJD but I found some uncanny similarities in their disappearances, not so much discovery or murder.
    1. Carol was living in San Antonio/Austin areas in 79/80
    2. Carol had ties to at least two institutions for girls that have been largely suspected in WCJD’s case (and a new one that I hadn’t heard of specifically) All in the same region of Texas or their sister location(s) in Louisiana, also in 79/80
    3. Carol was also suspected to have been recognized in a photograph of the girls’ group
    4. Carol came from a ‘broken’ home but didn’t seem to abused or suffer from any type of blatant neglect, as I suspect might be the case of WCJD
    5. Carol left the PDAP in October 1980; same month WCJD was discovered
    6. Carol also had recently painted fingernails (WCJD had painted toenails but that detail has always stood out to me)
    As I stated, their discovery and deaths are not similar in any way I can see, but aside from that there are quite a few similarities. In fact, the man who discovered Carol, John R. Chesson who was convicted in an unrelated murder, has remained a suspect in her death. My thinking was that possibly they had been at PDAP before or during October 1980 and both decided to run away at the same time? Maybe headed to different places or arriving at a relative’s of Carol and after a short stay decided to part ways? WCJD making her way south and Carol en route to Louisiana. That would explain WCJD’s late October murder and discovery and Carol’s subsequent murder in December 1980. WCJD could also have traveled to Louisiana with Carol and then relatively easily made her way back west by way of the gulf coast cities

    Just some thoughts. Maybe they had cross paths at one of the girls’ homes. I’ve read so many blogs about the different institutions and they seem to have been pretty tight knit, some ‘survivors’ even recalled being transferred from one state to the other without notice to them or their parents. For disciplinary reasons or undisclosed (I can only imagine) reasons. There may be something in the names written in Carol’s shoes. They led nowhere in her case, I know, but if two girls could be connected to one place it might open up the possibility for new leads?

    This is just a WikiPedia link, as it is what I came across in the first place. I have not done further digging to see if their could possibly be more evidence of a connection...

    Murder of Carol Cole - Wikipedia

    Carol Ann Cole AKA ‘Bossier’s Doe’17y/o
    Found in Bellevue, Bossier Parish, Louisiana on January 28, 1981 (ETD: December 1980)

    “Cole and her sister Linda "Jeanie" Phelps lived in Kalamazoo, Michigan, primarily under the care of their grandmother after their mother and father divorced. Later in life, Carol decided to leave Kalamazoo to accompany her mother, Sue to San Antonio, Texas in 1979 at age 15 but remained in contact with her sister by telephone. Cole was at a girl's home run by the Palmer Drug Abuse Program, also called PDAP, on West 23rd St. Austin, Texas from May to October 1980. She continued to call and mail letters to her family, which eventually ceased in late December 1980. A location that Cole had stayed after leaving PDAP was traced by her grandmother in Kalamazoo to a home Shreveport, Louisiana. Her grandmother called the residence where she was informed that Cole had departed to attend a party but she had never returned. Linda Phelps and her friend Patty Thorington continued to search for her, but were unsuccessful. Cole had been previously excluded as a possible identity of the victim by a medical examiner for unknown reasons. Some sources state that Cole may have spent time at a religious institution known as the New Bethany School for Girls, which was located in Arcadia, Louisiana.Her sister noted that an image taken around the time of Cole's disappearance at the school depicted a group of girls sitting in pews, one of whom bore a strong resemblance to her sister. Investigators have followed such leads. A woman claimed to have spent time with a girl that bore likeness to Cole but was unable to recall her name. Some also believe that the explanation for the names written on the victim's shoes as well as the style of clothing may have been due to a dress code set in place by the New Bethany School for Girls.”
    “...shoes with the names "Michael Brisco", "David", "Resha", and "D. Davies
    "”

    •I’m also including a few links regarding the “Rebekah House” in Texas and “New Bethany” in Louisiana. Ironically, I see most are related to Carol Ann, that since finding them I had forgotten about (a few I added after following other links on these). Some of these links may have been found on this thread, so forgive me ahead of time. Some of you may not have seen them though so in any case, here are the ones I have remembered to save!

    REBEKAH HOUSE:

    The Night Wind: PSA UPDATE: REBEKAH HOUSE ALUMNI PLEASE READ

    The Night Wind: THANKSGIVING PSA UPDATE: PLEASE READ AND SHARE

    Rebekah home for girls survivors

    NEW BETHANY:

    Survivor Snapshots from Teen-Home Hell

    A family's three-decade search for missing Michigan teen turns to Louisiana - nola.com

    The mystery of Carol Ann Cole – 1980

    New Bethany Home for Girls endured 30 years of controversy, leaving former residents wondering why - nola.com

    Friendship propelled 3-decade search for missing teen Carol Ann Cole - nola.com

    Homicide detectives refocus on the man who found body of 'Bossier Doe' 34 years ago - nola.com
    ^^the girl thought to be Carol bears a slight resemblance to WCJD as well, FWIW^^

    •MMcG•
     
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  7. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo SomeoneSomewhere KnowsSomething

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    I think it’s highly likely that the witnesses DID get some of the details wrong! When it comes to witness statements, there is so much room for unconscious confusion! If you consider the job of a waitress and how many people they encounter daily, it makes it easier to imagine that it’s not reasonable to expect that EVERY employee will remember EVERY detail of each person they encounter throughout their shift. When dealing with a patron it’s unlikely you’re going to think “this person may become a victim of crime”... so I’m sure the witnesses tried their best to recall specific details and could have remembered things accurately, but for the most part would not have been able to recall everything exactly as it occurred. That is only in my experience however.
     
  8. cherrymeg

    cherrymeg Well-Known Member

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    The word "prison" might stand especially if a young girl is asking for directions to one. Could she have gotten the name of the prison wrong? How long after she met the girl did she talk to the police? Witnesses are known to be unreliable and it's not their fault. Like you said you can't memorize every detail of everyone you meet.
     
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  9. RookieInvestigator

    RookieInvestigator Well-Known Member

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    I think it's possible WCJD was either assigned to the Rachel House (or affiliate) or a Texas Youth Commission (TYC) facility..

    If her boyfriend/friend was Charles Rumbaugh he grew up in San Angelo, mental hospitals and reform schools...

    "Rumbaugh, confined to prisons, reform schools, juvenile centers and mental hospitals for all but five months since age 13"

    ARTICLE
    ______________________

    "...Rumbaugh, who had admitted dozens of heists in Texas and Arkansas"

    "After being declared a juvenile delinquent, he spent four years incarcerated at the Texas Youth Commission facilities at Gatesville and Mountain View."

    "The juvenile institutions hardened his spirit and set the pattern for the rest of his life, said his brother, Rex Rumbaugh of San Angelo."

    "Being in those schools took his youth away," Rex Rumbaugh said. "He never really had a chance in those schools."

    "He shouldn't have been put in Gatesville (juvenile center) in the first place. He was first sent there for skipping school, and it was after that he got into auto theft and those things."

    "The teen-aged Rumbaugh was on his way to Los Angeles, fleeing a shoot-out with police at the Downtowner motel in San Angelo when he stopped in Amarillo to visit his sister and pulled his last robbery, a crime that ended in murder and sent him to the Texas Death House."


    ARTICLE
    ______________________

    From what I read it seems that Gatesville State School was an all male school...A federal judge closed Gatesville and the boys were sent to Mountain View...Mountain View currently houses women prisoners and women on death row...
     
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  10. RookieInvestigator

    RookieInvestigator Well-Known Member

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    I'm unsure of Charles Rumbaugh's connection to AR, but I did find a MP missing from Hot Springs, AR...

    [​IMG]

    Margie Ada Snead
    Case Classification: Endangered Missing
    Missing Since: January 1, 1974
    Location Last Seen: Hot Springs, Garland County, Arkansas

    Physical Description
    Date of Birth: circa 1955
    Age: 19 years old
    Race: White
    Gender: Female
    Height: 5'4"-5'5"
    Weight: 150 lbs.
    Hair Color: Dark brown/black (based on photograph)
    Eye Color: Unknown, most likely brown (based on photograph)
    Distinguishing Marks/Features: Unknown

    Identifiers
    Dentals: Not Available
    Fingerprints: Not Available
    DNA: Available
    Clothing & Personal Items
    Clothing: Unknown
    Jewelry: Unknown
    Additional Personal Items: Unknown

    Circumstances of Disappearance
    She was last heard from at an unknown address in Hot Springs, Arkansas in 1974. There is little information about Margie's case available.

    NAMUS
    DOENETWORK
    WEBSLEUTHS

    I tried to locate possible relatives... Some of the Snead's I came across had a connection to TX...It's possibly a coincidence...
     
  11. RookieInvestigator

    RookieInvestigator Well-Known Member

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    WALKER COUNTY JANE DOE

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    (NAMUS)

    UP4630
    White / Caucasian
    Date Found: November 1, 1980
    Location Found: Walker County, TX

    (DOENETWORK)

    Hair Color:
    Light brown, 10" long. Cut in wing fashion. Natural color, no evidence of color treatment.
    Eye Color: Hazel
    Distinguishing Marks/Features:
    1 1/2" scar at end of right eyebrow (some agencies list scar on right elbow, but it was confirmed with LE that it is the eyebrow). Pierced ears. Toenails painted pink. Possibly had inverted right nipple.

    Identifiers
    Dentals: Available. Her teeth had been well cared for.
    Fingerprints: Available. RT: X0 63 11 09 04; LT: XI DI 08 07 06.
    DNA: Available - mtDNA in CODIS. Ref #F-2713.

    Clothing & Personal Items
    Clothing: She may have been wearing jeans, a yellow shirt with large pockets, panties, and pantyhose. A pair of red leather high-heeled sandals, 3" or 4" inch platforms with light brown straps had been thrown beside the body. Pantyhose and underwear (descriptions unavailable) were found at the scene as well.
    Jewelry: A rectangular-shaped pendant with a smoky blue glass stone on a very thin gold chain

    NAMUS
    FACEBOOK
    DOENETWORK
    NCMEC
    ARTICLE (2018)


    ***WARNING....Some of the website links contain post-mortem photos of WCJD
     
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  12. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo SomeoneSomewhere KnowsSomething

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    Yes, it’s very difficult and almost frustrating trying to remember details in situations like this! I’m sure they all spent awhile wondering “what if?...” I agree, “prison” would definitely be something to stand out although POSSIBLY a little less so considering the amount of prisons in the area...but a girl, seemingly lost and alone looking for a prison would catch my attention! I have thought a lot about the prison itself and if she might have gotten the name wrong. I think it’s more likely that WCJD got the name wrong than a local, ya know? Ellis was pretty unmistakable at that time for many reasons, including Death Row. So I’d venture to say Ms Doe could have been mixed up. I’ve wondered what the Witness drew for her, as far as the ‘map’ or directions that were allegedly given to her on a piece of paper? Has that ever been released? Or was it ever found? IIRC the witnesses came forward either the 1st or the 2nd of November.
     
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  13. RookieInvestigator

    RookieInvestigator Well-Known Member

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    Has any one considered the "Prison Groupie" angle...Ted Bundy, Richard Ramirez (CA Night Stalker) and other high profile killers somehow catch the attention of impressionable teens/women...Did she write to an inmate but didn't send a pic...Just planned to show up at the prison to visit and arrived in Huntsville after visiting hours...
     
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  14. cherrymeg

    cherrymeg Well-Known Member

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    Was there anything going on at the other prisons at the time? I'm not familiar with the area are the prisons fairly close together? If WCJD got the name of the prison wrong it would mean she probably wasn't in contact with an inmate. If she had been writing someone she would have most likely kept an envelope. It would have the exact address and possibly an inmate number. Could she have been waiting for someone to get out of a prison? Or was she trying to visit someone she knew but wasn't able to communicate with?
     
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  15. RookieInvestigator

    RookieInvestigator Well-Known Member

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    Someone earlier on this thread mentioned a prison rodeo...I agree with the previous statement that we are relying heavily on witness statements... There could've been a mistake...But 3 different people identified her...2 mentioned her going to a prison but maybe it wasn't the Ellis Farm...

    I'm skeptical that WCJD was that young...She may have inherited "good genes" and looks youthful...I primarily use her PM photo to compare her to MPs and her hair looks dark brown, but its probably wet... I'll have to start using the composite sketch...
     
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  16. cherrymeg

    cherrymeg Well-Known Member

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    In Louisiana Angola has a rodeo that is like a fair almost. It attracts tourists. That would be something anyone could visit. I think WCJD looks very young and in away that is more than just good genes. Something about her face seems childlike. It's hard to explain. If she was past 20 I would be surprised. I think she was a teenager.
     
  17. RookieInvestigator

    RookieInvestigator Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible WCJD is connected to the "Missing Texas 40"....All the people are primarily missing from Montgomery and Liberty County (north of Huntsville)...Also I believe some disappearances/murders may have happened at Sam Houston National Forest..

    ARTICLE (PHOTOS OF MISSING)
    NEWS VIDEO (SHORT)
    FACEBOOK
    GOOGLE MAP (SAM HOUSTON NATIONAL FOREST)
    MAP SOURCE
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. RookieInvestigator

    RookieInvestigator Well-Known Member

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    This MP resembles WCJD PM photo IMO..The main problems is her age, DLC and her hair looks dark brown... I've seen a few MPs that resemble her...

    Eileen Francis Hynson
    [​IMG]
    • Hynson, circa 1976
    • Missing Since: 06/01/1976
    • Missing From: Napa, CA
    • Age: 19 years old
    • Height: 5' 2"
    • Weight: 130 pounds
    • Brown hair
    • Hazel eyes
    CHARLEY PROJECT
     
  19. sloane7777

    sloane7777 Well-Known Member

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    did we ever figure if Samuel little was around this area it fits his MO ( along with a lot of others)
     
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  20. b741ma

    b741ma Member

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    One thing has always baffled me about this case. Several theories propose that this girl at the time of her disappearance was in foster care. If that's true then why is it so difficult to find her identity. I admit I don't know much about the U.S. foster care system but doesn't the government keep track of the kids in that system. It seems like if one of them went missing the US government would find out about it as soon as the social worker made the next visit to the foster home. Is there something I'm missing?
     

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