Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by KT Can, Feb 28, 2009.
That is terrifying. What would bring her there if it really was the prison?
Being the daughter of an inmates it hasn't always been difficult to get in to visit someone. Not sure if a minor would've been able to visit an inmate without adult supervision though, so perhaps she was at least 18.. I may do some digging later to see if a minor could've visited a inmate without ID here in Texas.I am willing to bet that most inmates now have DNA on file, I wonder if they match Jane Doe's to inmates DNA.
Nobody pays attention to the parking lot? I guess that was in response to my post, however the witnesses not only gave a description of the car WCJD got out of but they also knew that she had talked to other people and described their vehicles too. So obviously at that time someone was paying attention to the parking lot. Now, I just wanted to get that out of the way first because I really love your posts. They are insightful and informative. It really puts things into perspective. I hope you will keep them coming.
Not at all in regards to your post. I'm just saying that so much goes on in that parking lot that luckily there was a witness, I know after my years of working there I became immune to the working girls and couldn't pick one from the other in a line up. It really is sad. I didn't mean to downplay your post.
Over the year or two I was there I had a few cops come by asking if I had seen someone or recognized a photo of someone. Unfortunately I never did recognize anyone, and truth be told, most the truck drivers were family folks. They would pull out pictures of their wives and children, tell me they were trying to hurry to make it back in time for some event. I maybe had one creep out of 100 customers, but the prison guards were often crude and thought themselves above the law. I'm in no way anti prison guard, but the morning group I would get at 4 a.m. were an odd bunch. I have no doubt she was picked up at the hitching post, and unfortunately she was the unlucky girl for the day. Several girls would stop me on my way to My car at 7 am and ask for money or tell me they were "just" trying to get back home. I'm older now, I wasn't as compassionate back then, plus I was a little afraid of anywhere outside the building, so much so that the dishwasher we called TC would walk me to my car. The owner of the restaurant was real protective of his employees but he didn't have compassion for the working girls either.... We were told to kick them out unless they were buying food and not approaching other customers. I'm not sure how things are ran around the time WCJD was murdered. This case has bothered me for 20 years.
No problem at all Izzy. There's probably plenty of things in my posts that could be downplayed. I was just pointing out that a witness may have seen some other small detail that could be significant.
So you think that she never made it out of the parking lot? That's interesting.
FYI: Sometimes you have to watch out for those dishwashers too. I'm not saying anything bad about TC but you reminded me of another case.
In the late 60's Lee Roy Martin was known as the Gaffney strangler. At the textile plant where he worked some of the women were getting Lee Roy to walk them out to their cars at night because they feared that they could become the next victim.
TC was a young black guy, but still a set of eyes so I wasn't alone. The cooks were two little old ladies, the hostess was about my age, so we were a harmless group. However the cook that worked like two nights a week to relieve the old ladies was a pervert, just harmless vulgararity is like to think... Don't think he was around in the 80s nor fit the right age bracket to have been a suspect. I don't know if she made it out the parking lot, she obviously did, but where she was actually murdered, no clue where to even start speculation on that. I'm not opposed to it being a cop, a mechanic next door, a trucker, a employee at the Hitching post in 1980, a correctional officer, a inmate recently released or just some weirdo passing through. There are so many characters that frequent that place because its on the way out of or into town. The parking lot for truckers is the size of a Wal-Mart parking lot, so we are talking 50 truckers a night just parked... Maybe 15 correctional officers in there for coffee before their shift at 4 a.m. police officers patrolling for lot lizards or just mingling with each other... That poor girl could've been approached by someone that's from Canada for all we know.
This is such good detail, painting a picture of what the hitchin post is like. I always pictured it as a small place with a small parking lot. Thanks for sharing.
One thing that causes me to believe it was most likely a traveler/trucker that was a suspect... She was brutally assaulted. She was not just raped, she was attacked viciously...that kind of violence and assault on her body is pure evil and not something that would cause one to think it was the first and only assault committed by this suspect. That leads me to believe it wasn't someone local because had it been, could they remain dormant after such a crime?
It was rather large, with a convenient store next door/mechanic shop for 18 wheelers. I would say the restaurant had 40 plus tables... Showers truckers could pay for in the back.. A changing room... There was open field all around it... Remember I worked there 20 years after the murder but believe me, no updates had taken place, it was like taking a step back in time when I worked there. It was on the north side of town heading towards hours of nothing until you got to Dallas... Huntsville is North of Houston, so it was like a stop between Dallas and Houston. North of Huntsville outskirts is where it was, closest prison was the Holiday unit, maybe 2 miles away.
Huntsville hitching post - Google Search
I feel stupid to keep adding to this, but want too get all my thoughts out.... Maybe she was heading to the Ellis Unit to see someone. They said nobody at the Ellis unit recognized the girl, BUT.... inmates get moved all the time and in Huntsville there are 12 prisons in the surrounding area.... Did they ask at other prison units?? I can name a few off the top of my head... Holiday, Ferguson, walls... It seems like an unlikely "made up story" to be going to see an inmate at a prison unit unless there was truth to it. Let's say she was 15-20 in 1980, that inmate would still most likely be around her age and alive today. Any way to look up inmates from the county of Aransas Pass and see if any inmates close in age were incarcerated in Huntsville at the time of her murder... I know the list may be long but TDCJ surely could supply that information. Narrow it down to ones who had also been in the Ellis unit... But not when the murder occurred. Long shot, but surely... It could be done. I also doubt they really showed it to every inmate at Ellis. I'm just rambling but I don't think that part of the story is fake.
Sorry, that came out the wrong way. Of course she made it out of the parking lot. I was making reference to your statement about her being picked up at the hitching post or atleast that's what I was trying to do. My mistake.
I'm sure by the time you worked there things had changed a lot and I don't know about 1980, but I do know that at one time prisons used what was known as building tenders and I think Texas was one of the last states to use them. Building tenders are nothing more than inmates that act as guards and in the past they were granted some pretty big privileges. I don't know if this would involve ever letting them leave the prison grounds or not. If so they probably would have just posed as guards which is basically what they were.
Come to think of it I remember reading about a suspect in this case, Henry Lucas,(who I'm kinda doubtful about) how LE let him roam freely around the jailhouse and would actually take him out to eat at restaurants.
I was just wondering about some of these prison guards and who all they were. Ellis prison has a colorful past to say the least.
They also use to allow furloughs... Not sure I spelled that correctly
I'm going to make a few phone calls to my dad and grandfather who both served time off and on throughout the 70s and 80s in Huntsville. (By the way, they were into transporting drugs, and stealing cars, not murdering people) they may have some insight on how things were at the Ellis unit during that time period. My dad is a law abiding citizen now but he once told me that prison guards were just as, if not more sadistic than inmates. I'm sure there are good and bad in every bunch. I did look up to see if any other women had been brutally murdered outside truck stops in the late 79s, early 80s..... And good grief, too many to count. It's too hard to narrow down who could be connected to who. I really feel in my gut that WCJD was truly trying to get to that prison. For what, I'm not sure. Then I thought, maybe it was to see her father or brother... Maybe not a friend at all. Maybe someone had told her that her father was in prison and she wanted to meet him. There are so many turns this story could take. I wish they had DNA of all inmates, I'm thinking this girl had a sketchy family and surely someone made some bad choices and ended up on prison at some point... A cousin, a sibling, a parent. I'm going to keep working on this but there are so many roads to look down.
I don't know if this has been said before, but maybe the girl left her home with her (possibly single) mother behind. The mother says 'good riddance' when her daughter leaves. Maybe she doesn't like her, maybe she's glad to go and see that 'b* father of hers in prison'. When the girl doesn't come back, the mother is glad to see the back of her.
As for why she runs away? Maybe her mother's significant other is abusing her. Maybe the girl's mother knows. Maybe the girl's told her friends. When she leaves in 1980, the girl's friends think that she's gone to live with someone else. Maybe the dad that the family don't talk about, who they don't know is in prison, perhaps without the kid listed in his information because nobody knows about her. Perhaps not even dad himself.
The girl leaves the diner. She comes across a stranger, maybe. But possibly even mom's significant other. There's an argument. Girl says 'I'm going to say you abused me' or perhaps blackmails him. She's young; she's not thinking clearly. He gets angry and because he doesn't want to take his clothes off right now and actually 'teach her a lesson', he uses something to assault her (note: perhaps he was impotent and used an object frequently). Then he kills her and dumps her.
Maybe mom knows about the murder. Maybe she doesn't.
Either way, I think the girl had a terrible family life. But chances are she told someone about this and middle-aged women should be checking their high school yearbooks.
Your story is as plausible as any other, however, could've been an aunt and uncle.. Could've been a foster home, any number if scenarios. I don't think she was killed by someone who knew her. I think that she was killed by someone who has killed before her and most likely after her. Only way a person like that would stop is if they were incarcerated or dead. This was not a rape gone wrong, this was a brutal attack of a defenseless girl. This was swift and close to the truck stop.... My thoughts is she was raped at the truck stop in the cab of a truck or raped in a vehicle, then taken to a second location to be offended again and it got bad. We don't even know if she was or wasn't a working girl. Desperate people do desperate things. Perhaps she picked the wrong John... I don't want to believe she was a working girl but who knows... That's the problem. We don't know anything . If she came from the south of 45 (hitching post is on 45) she wouldn't have been that far north on 45, Ellis unit is east. It's actually closer to Trinity.
Let me ask this...
Who better to than a prison guard in his TDCJ about a ride to a prison?
She wasn't going to go north or south on 45... She needed to go way east. Odds are whoever gave her a ride to the hitching post was traveling on 45 North or South... We didn't have Google maps back then. My guess she came from the south of Texas, got on i45 after traveling up through Galveston or Victoria.
If a girl makes up where she is from, Rock Port wouldn't be a rambled out answer. She would've said Houston, Corpus, Dallas, Galveston. No doubt she is from Rock Port. Population 8000. I'm sure much smaller in 1980. Somebody in Rock Port in 1980 knew this girl.
Anyway I think this case will remain a cold case for many many years...there's just a little hope someday we'll know her name and above all her killer's name
Reading your theories was very interesting. You would be a good detective.