TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #2 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

[T rex]

TC was a young black guy, but still a set of eyes so I wasn't alone. The cooks were two little old ladies, the hostess was about my age, so we were a harmless group. However the cook that worked like two nights a week to relieve the old ladies was a pervert, just harmless vulgararity is like to think... Don't think he was around in the 80s nor fit the right age bracket to have been a suspect. I don't know if she made it out the parking lot, she obviously did, but where she was actually murdered, no clue where to even start speculation on that. I'm not opposed to it being a cop, a mechanic next door, a trucker, a employee at the Hitching post in 1980, a correctional officer, a inmate recently released or just some weirdo passing through. There are so many characters that frequent that place because its on the way out of or into town. The parking lot for truckers is the size of a Wal-Mart parking lot, so we are talking 50 truckers a night just parked... Maybe 15 correctional officers in there for coffee before their shift at 4 a.m. police officers patrolling for lot lizards or just mingling with each other... That poor girl could've been approached by someone that's from Canada for all we know.

Sorry, that came out the wrong way. Of course she made it out of the parking lot. I was making reference to your statement about her being picked up at the hitching post or atleast that's what I was trying to do. My mistake.
I'm sure by the time you worked there things had changed a lot and I don't know about 1980, but I do know that at one time prisons used what was known as building tenders and I think Texas was one of the last states to use them. Building tenders are nothing more than inmates that act as guards and in the past they were granted some pretty big privileges. I don't know if this would involve ever letting them leave the prison grounds or not. If so they probably would have just posed as guards which is basically what they were.
Come to think of it I remember reading about a suspect in this case, Henry Lucas,(who I'm kinda doubtful about) how LE let him roam freely around the jailhouse and would actually take him out to eat at restaurants.
I was just wondering about some of these prison guards and who all they were. Ellis prison has a colorful past to say the least.

 

[Izzy77523]

They also use to allow furloughs... Not sure I spelled that correctly

 

[Izzy77523]

I'm going to make a few phone calls to my dad and grandfather who both served time off and on throughout the 70s and 80s in Huntsville. (By the way, they were into transporting drugs, and stealing cars, not murdering people) they may have some insight on how things were at the Ellis unit during that time period. My dad is a law abiding citizen now but he once told me that prison guards were just as, if not more sadistic than inmates. I'm sure there are good and bad in every bunch. I did look up to see if any other women had been brutally murdered outside truck stops in the late 79s, early 80s..... And good grief, too many to count. It's too hard to narrow down who could be connected to who. I really feel in my gut that WCJD was truly trying to get to that prison. For what, I'm not sure. Then I thought, maybe it was to see her father or brother... Maybe not a friend at all. Maybe someone had told her that her father was in prison and she wanted to meet him. There are so many turns this story could take. I wish they had DNA of all inmates, I'm thinking this girl had a sketchy family and surely someone made some bad choices and ended up on prison at some point... A cousin, a sibling, a parent. I'm going to keep working on this but there are so many roads to look down.

 

[Earth]

I don't know if this has been said before, but maybe the girl left her home with her (possibly single) mother behind. The mother says 'good riddance' when her daughter leaves. Maybe she doesn't like her, maybe she's glad to go and see that 'b* father of hers in prison'. When the girl doesn't come back, the mother is glad to see the back of her.

As for why she runs away? Maybe her mother's significant other is abusing her. Maybe the girl's mother knows. Maybe the girl's told her friends. When she leaves in 1980, the girl's friends think that she's gone to live with someone else. Maybe the dad that the family don't talk about, who they don't know is in prison, perhaps without the kid listed in his information because nobody knows about her. Perhaps not even dad himself.

The girl leaves the diner. She comes across a stranger, maybe. But possibly even mom's significant other. There's an argument. Girl says 'I'm going to say you abused me' or perhaps blackmails him. She's young; she's not thinking clearly. He gets angry and because he doesn't want to take his clothes off right now and actually 'teach her a lesson', he uses something to assault her (note: perhaps he was impotent and used an object frequently). Then he kills her and dumps her.

Maybe mom knows about the murder. Maybe she doesn't.

Either way, I think the girl had a terrible family life. But chances are she told someone about this and middle-aged women should be checking their high school yearbooks.

 

[Izzy77523]

I don't know if this has been said before, but maybe the girl left her home with her (possibly single) mother behind. The mother says 'good riddance' when her daughter leaves. Maybe she doesn't like her, maybe she's glad to go and see that 'b* father of hers in prison'. When the girl doesn't come back, the mother is glad to see the back of her.

As for why she runs away? Maybe her mother's significant other is abusing her. Maybe the girl's mother knows. Maybe the girl's told her friends. When she leaves in 1980, the girl's friends think that she's gone to live with someone else. Maybe the dad that the family don't talk about, who they don't know is in prison, perhaps without the kid listed in his information because nobody knows about her. Perhaps not even dad himself.

The girl leaves the diner. She comes across a stranger, maybe. But possibly even mom's significant other. There's an argument. Girl says 'I'm going to say you abused me' or perhaps blackmails him. She's young; she's not thinking clearly. He gets angry and because he doesn't want to take his clothes off right now and actually 'teach her a lesson', he uses something to assault her (note: perhaps he was impotent and used an object frequently). Then he kills her and dumps her.

Maybe mom knows about the murder. Maybe she doesn't.

Either way, I think the girl had a terrible family life. But chances are she told someone about this and middle-aged women should be checking their high school yearbooks.

Your story is as plausible as any other, however, could've been an aunt and uncle.. Could've been a foster home, any number if scenarios. I don't think she was killed by someone who knew her. I think that she was killed by someone who has killed before her and most likely after her. Only way a person like that would stop is if they were incarcerated or dead. This was not a rape gone wrong, this was a brutal attack of a defenseless girl. This was swift and close to the truck stop.... My thoughts is she was raped at the truck stop in the cab of a truck or raped in a vehicle, then taken to a second location to be offended again and it got bad. We don't even know if she was or wasn't a working girl. Desperate people do desperate things. Perhaps she picked the wrong John... I don't want to believe she was a working girl but who knows... That's the problem. We don't know anything . If she came from the south of 45 (hitching post is on 45) she wouldn't have been that far north on 45, Ellis unit is east. It's actually closer to Trinity.

Let me ask this...

Who better to than a prison guard in his TDCJ about a ride to a prison?

She wasn't going to go north or south on 45... She needed to go way east. Odds are whoever gave her a ride to the hitching post was traveling on 45 North or South... We didn't have Google maps back then. My guess she came from the south of Texas, got on i45 after traveling up through Galveston or Victoria.

If a girl makes up where she is from, Rock Port wouldn't be a rambled out answer. She would've said Houston, Corpus, Dallas, Galveston. No doubt she is from Rock Port. Population 8000. I'm sure much smaller in 1980. Somebody in Rock Port in 1980 knew this girl.

 

[BlackCloud]

I feel stupid to keep adding to this, but want too get all my thoughts out.... Maybe she was heading to the Ellis Unit to see someone. They said nobody at the Ellis unit recognized the girl, BUT.... inmates get moved all the time and in Huntsville there are 12 prisons in the surrounding area.... Did they ask at other prison units?? I can name a few off the top of my head... Holiday, Ferguson, walls... It seems like an unlikely "made up story" to be going to see an inmate at a prison unit unless there was truth to it. Let's say she was 15-20 in 1980, that inmate would still most likely be around her age and alive today. Any way to look up inmates from the county of Aransas Pass and see if any inmates close in age were incarcerated in Huntsville at the time of her murder... I know the list may be long but TDCJ surely could supply that information. Narrow it down to ones who had also been in the Ellis unit... But not when the murder occurred. Long shot, but surely... It could be done. I also doubt they really showed it to every inmate at Ellis. I'm just rambling but I don't think that part of the story is fake.

Quite possible.
Anyway I think this case will remain a cold case for many many years...there's just a little hope someday we'll know her name and above all her killer's name

 

[AmonAmarther]

Your story is as plausible as any other, however, could've been an aunt and uncle.. Could've been a foster home, any number if scenarios. I don't think she was killed by someone who knew her. I think that she was killed by someone who has killed before her and most likely after her. Only way a person like that would stop is if they were incarcerated or dead. This was not a rape gone wrong, this was a brutal attack of a defenseless girl. This was swift and close to the truck stop.... My thoughts is she was raped at the truck stop in the cab of a truck or raped in a vehicle, then taken to a second location to be offended again and it got bad. We don't even know if she was or wasn't a working girl. Desperate people do desperate things. Perhaps she picked the wrong John... I don't want to believe she was a working girl but who knows... That's the problem. We don't know anything . If she came from the south of 45 (hitching post is on 45) she wouldn't have been that far north on 45, Ellis unit is east. It's actually closer to Trinity.

Let me ask this...

Who better to than a prison guard in his TDCJ about a ride to a prison?

She wasn't going to go north or south on 45... She needed to go way east. Odds are whoever gave her a ride to the hitching post was traveling on 45 North or South... We didn't have Google maps back then. My guess she came from the south of Texas, got on i45 after traveling up through Galveston or Victoria.

If a girl makes up where she is from, Rock Port wouldn't be a rambled out answer. She would've said Houston, Corpus, Dallas, Galveston. No doubt she is from Rock Port. Population 8000. I'm sure much smaller in 1980. Somebody in Rock Port in 1980 knew this girl.

Reading your theories was very interesting. You would be a good detective.

 

[cherrymeg]

I feel stupid to keep adding to this, but want too get all my thoughts out.... Maybe she was heading to the Ellis Unit to see someone. They said nobody at the Ellis unit recognized the girl, BUT.... inmates get moved all the time and in Huntsville there are 12 prisons in the surrounding area.... Did they ask at other prison units?? I can name a few off the top of my head... Holiday, Ferguson, walls... It seems like an unlikely "made up story" to be going to see an inmate at a prison unit unless there was truth to it. Let's say she was 15-20 in 1980, that inmate would still most likely be around her age and alive today. Any way to look up inmates from the county of Aransas Pass and see if any inmates close in age were incarcerated in Huntsville at the time of her murder... I know the list may be long but TDCJ surely could supply that information. Narrow it down to ones who had also been in the Ellis unit... But not when the murder occurred. Long shot, but surely... It could be done. I also doubt they really showed it to every inmate at Ellis. I'm just rambling but I don't think that part of the story is fake.

Your posts are amazing! Please keep sharing. If she asked for directions to a specific prison unit would the directions be different than other units? She had to have some knowledge of the prison to name Ellis. If she was underage asking for directions to a prison is a way to draw attention to yourself. It sounds like she asked at two locations.
Would you have been able to tell if girl was or wasn't a pro at the Hitchin Post? Would someone asking for directions and dressed the way she was described standout?

 

[cherrymeg]

I'm going to make a few phone calls to my dad and grandfather who both served time off and on throughout the 70s and 80s in Huntsville. (By the way, they were into transporting drugs, and stealing cars, not murdering people) they may have some insight on how things were at the Ellis unit during that time period. My dad is a law abiding citizen now but he once told me that prison guards were just as, if not more sadistic than inmates. I'm sure there are good and bad in every bunch. I did look up to see if any other women had been brutally murdered outside truck stops in the late 79s, early 80s..... And good grief, too many to count. It's too hard to narrow down who could be connected to who. I really feel in my gut that WCJD was truly trying to get to that prison. For what, I'm not sure. Then I thought, maybe it was to see her father or brother... Maybe not a friend at all. Maybe someone had told her that her father was in prison and she wanted to meet him. There are so many turns this story could take. I wish they had DNA of all inmates, I'm thinking this girl had a sketchy family and surely someone made some bad choices and ended up on prison at some point... A cousin, a sibling, a parent. I'm going to keep working on this but there are so many roads to look down.

That would be helpful. Guards and cops can be bullies that take these jobs because they have access to people they can dominate and control. Some of the details about her death have made people question if the killer was male but she could have come across some angry, impotent man who needed to degrade her because he couldn't perform. That could be a serial killer that passed through, a guard or cop or trucker. Where cops and guards picking up hookers?

 

[Izzy77523]

I don't think she was a working girl but if she was desperate and approached who is to say she wouldn't have considered it. We can't even say without a doubt she wasn't raped. Just because there is no semen doesn't mean she wasn't violated. I can't see a woman being the suspect. You're right when saying it was interesting that she specifically asked about the Ellis Unit. She would've seen signs for the Holiday and Walls Unit on highway 45... That alone tells me she had a destination. I saw guards solicit the girls in 2000, I'm sure it was happening 20 years earlier as well. Never saw a cop do it.

Now, this is the part that I feel like a dumbass for not thinking about it before. Not sure how many are aware of this.... But Huntsville is home to one if the largest universities in this area.. Sam Houston state university... Which is exactly why I lived in Huntsville... I would get college kids coming in to the Hitching Post to study because it was 24 hours... Also after bars closed they would come in after a night of partying. They think WCJD was killed Halloween night so I'm sure college kids were out partying until late night hours... It was also a Saturday night. Maybe we are looking for a college kid. Like I said, I'm just trying to think of all possibilities.

 

[Izzy77523]

Reading your theories was very interesting. You would be a good detective.

I don't know about that, I've just lived a colourful life and realize I just as easily could've been this girl... Someone should get justice for her.

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

Cops have sex with hookers. They just don't pay for what they are doing.

Her killer is most likely a corrections officer. I'd bet a sizeable amount of cash on that now.

 

[Izzy77523]

I'm still in deep thought on this. They say people insert them themselves into investigations when they are in fact the killer. Now before y'all look at me, lol, I was only a baby in 1980... But like I said Sam Houston is a major criminal Justice school. There are 12 prisons in Huntsville so of coarse Criminal Justice is how folks up there make money. Everybody knows somebody that works for the prison. A lot of students would have been in fields related to the death of WCJD... Forensics, sociology, studying serial killers, you name it. I wonder if any college kids, looking innocent and in the name of education was hanging around trying to get information on the investigation...

Y'all tell me if I'm digging too far down the rabbit hole.

 

[Izzy77523]

Cops have sex with hookers. They just don't lay for what they are doing.

Her killer is most likely a corrections officer. I'd bet a sizeable amount of cash on that now.

Would not surprise me. My only thought is, could he have continued living there and never offended again. Offenders like that don't lay dormant... They keep killing.

 

[Izzy77523]

Your posts are amazing! Please keep sharing. If she asked for directions to a specific prison unit would the directions be different than other units? She had to have some knowledge of the prison to name Ellis. If she was underage asking for directions to a prison is a way to draw attention to yourself. It sounds like she asked at two locations.
Would you have been able to tell if girl was or wasn't a pro at the Hitchin Post? Would someone asking for directions and dressed the way she was described standout?

To answer your question.... You could tell the working girls from the non working girls, and from the way WCJD was dressed it sounds like she was dressed like a runaway. I'm not sure if she would've stood out, but the investigators said she was most likely about 15.. So that puts her between 14-18... Girls all develope differently. She was healthy. A young girl alone, asking for directions, lost, maybe hungry... I'm sure someone saw prey and pounced.

There is no doubt this girl has siblings still alive, or at the very least a niece, nephew, cousin... I'm estimating her birth year around 1964 ...

 

[cherrymeg]

To answer your question.... You could tell the working girls from the non working girls, and from the way WCJD was dressed it sounds like she was dressed like a runaway. I'm not sure if she would've stood out, but the investigators said she was most likely about 15.. So that puts her between 14-18... Girls all develope differently. She was healthy. A young girl alone, asking for directions, lost, maybe hungry... I'm sure someone saw prey and pounced.

There is no doubt this girl has siblings still alive, or at the very least a niece, nephew, cousin... I'm estimating her birth year around 1964 ...

If you are a minor and you say you're 19 it usually means you are a few years shy of 18. Jails and prisons tend to have visiting hours and approved people. I don't know if 1980 was more relaxed. Do you know if Huntsville let you talk to inmates in a visitors room or were there the glass panels. I've never been to one with the glass or plastic separating you but it seems like it would be easier to visit then they wouldn't be checking babies for drugs in their diapers. It seems like she had to be going to the prison for someone. The Hitchin Post sounds like a more populated place to meet and she was still looking for directions there. If it was a guard or someone getting released they could meet her. Her intention must have been to get to that prison.
A guard in a uniform could have easily promised her a ride and to get her in.

 

[cherrymeg]

I don't think she was a working girl but if she was desperate and approached who is to say she wouldn't have considered it. We can't even say without a doubt she wasn't raped. Just because there is no semen doesn't mean she wasn't violated. I can't see a woman being the suspect. You're right when saying it was interesting that she specifically asked about the Ellis Unit. She would've seen signs for the Holiday and Walls Unit on highway 45... That alone tells me she had a destination. I saw guards solicit the girls in 2000, I'm sure it was happening 20 years earlier as well. Never saw a cop do it.

Now, this is the part that I feel like a dumbass for not thinking about it before. Not sure how many are aware of this.... But Huntsville is home to one if the largest universities in this area.. Sam Houston state university... Which is exactly why I lived in Huntsville... I would get college kids coming in to the Hitching Post to study because it was 24 hours... Also after bars closed they would come in after a night of partying. They think WCJD was killed Halloween night so I'm sure college kids were out partying until late night hours... It was also a Saturday night. Maybe we are looking for a college kid. Like I said, I'm just trying to think of all possibilities.

The college kid theory is good. She would probably be more trusting of people closer to her age. If she had to wait until the prison opened for visitors maybe some college kids suggested she hangout with them crash at their place and someone could give her a ride in the morning. It would seem safer and more fun than sitting all night in a restaurant alone. College kids wouldn't be suspected, especially not when she is talking about visiting a prison. They also move on after college or travel to go to college.

 

[cherrymeg]

I'm still in deep thought on this. They say people insert them themselves into investigations when they are in fact the killer. Now before y'all look at me, lol, I was only a baby in 1980... But like I said Sam Houston is a major criminal Justice school. There are 12 prisons in Huntsville so of coarse Criminal Justice is how folks up there make money. Everybody knows somebody that works for the prison. A lot of students would have been in fields related to the death of WCJD... Forensics, sociology, studying serial killers, you name it. I wonder if any college kids, looking innocent and in the name of education was hanging around trying to get information on the investigation...

Y'all tell me if I'm digging too far down the rabbit hole.

I think your college theory is one that should be explored. She is a nameless possible runaway, that was trying to visit someone in prison. A college kid could have been so far under the radar. Would college kids have interned in the prisons? Or had classes there?

 

[Izzy77523]

I think your college theory is one that should be explored. She is a nameless possible runaway, that was trying to visit someone in prison. A college kid could have been so far under the radar. Would college kids have interned in the prisons? Or had classes there?

Yes absolutely... I was there in the sociology field and went to the prisons often.

 

[Izzy77523]

The college kid theory is good. She would probably be more trusting of people closer to her age. If she had to wait until the prison opened for visitors maybe some college kids suggested she hangout with them crash at their place and someone could give her a ride in the morning. It would seem safer and more fun than sitting all night in a restaurant alone. College kids wouldn't be suspected, especially not when she is talking about visiting a prison. They also move on after college or travel to go to college.

See, now you're going down the rabbit hole with me.