Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by KT Can, Feb 28, 2009.
I was thinking that, too, Melmoth, that WCJD is on the cusp of being considered a child case.
I'm not sure what DDP's definition of child is though. Statistically, a child is most in danger of being murdered by their parents during the potty training years. Not so much WCJD's age range. I agree that this was more than likely a stranger killing so hopefully DDP will still take her on! But WCSD has to invite them to help and they don't seem to want to close this one.
I imagine that DDP is talking about not taking on cases of pre-pubescent Does not just under 18... because a 16 year old can reasonably run away, a 4 year old is stuck with their parents.
Keep in mind that Buckskin Girl was thought to be and Annie Doe is currently speculated to be under 18; Annie Doe's age range starts at 14 actually. So I definitely don't think DDP would have a problem with WCJD's age.
Now that I think of it I can't really remember ever coming across a Doe that was thought to be 9-13 or so, they're either super young children/babies OR high school years at least.
EDIT: St Louis Jane is thought to have been between 8-11 but that seems like a pretty rare age range for a Jane Doe
Agreed that younger children are more likely to be killed by parents or carers, but it's also possible that an older child could be killed because of invisible disabilities, such as autism or learning difficulties, which might produce challenging behaviour. If you think about Crystal Rae, there is some question about her having some form of cognitive disability because of the placement of her ears which is characteristic of several congenital syndromes, but a condition such as autism would normally be completely invisible in a body.
Agreed unless there are disabilities which prevent an older child doing so.
Definitely true and DDP might be more reluctant to take on Crystal Rae's case because of it. But WCJD was most likely not killed by a family member based on the circumstances so I think she's in the clear.
Elderly homicide victim Does also might have a high likelihood of having been killed by family.
AFAIK Crystal Rae is thought to have been in her late teens or early 20s so her age shouldn't be an issue.
Yeah I know that her age shouldn't be an issue but if she was very mentally disabled there's a higher likelihood her parents were involved in her death. Who knows. Anyway, I imagine DDP would still take on her case. I really think they're mainly avoiding Does under the age of 12 or 13 most likely.
Keep in mind, she was seen interacting with people in Huntsville before she was found murdered. Highly unlikely a severely mentally disabled individual would be able to ask for and follow instructions on how to get to Ellis PU. Someone with low intellectual abilities, yes (IQ in the 80s)...
I understand your point though. There are some horrible, evil, vile parents/caregivers out there that do awful things. I just don't think that's the case here.
Sorry, there seems to be some confusion. My citing cognitive or similar disability was in connection with Crystal Rae, not WCJD. There has been no suggestion that the latter was disabled in any way.
I think Crystal Rae also had a smaller brain cavity.
I have a question and idk if you can answer but I see you on here quite often so figured you may. When a person or an unidentified is entered into nameus or doe network does it automatically do a cross reference w/dna results or anything like that?
Are there any aerial or other maps of the Huntsville area available for viewing. I know that I45 looked quite a bit different then but wondering what the other roads looked like as well. What was there And what was not on her assumed travel routes.
Well, let me give it a try, because it's not a simple answer.
Doenetwork doesn't do any direct work; they're more of a clearinghouse for missing and unidentified cases that are listed elsewhere.
There are many databases of DNA that can be used for various purposes and all DNA tests are not the same. The human genome is huge, so any application that wants to work with it generally selects a few segments of the genome that are relevant to their study. These are the loci (singular locus) and I think there may be other names depending on what kind of work is being done and how the information is extracted. So the loci that are relevant for identification are ones that are most unique to an individual. This is the opposite of what an ancestry site is looking for; their loci are the ones that are shared across large groups (I think they're phenotypes or something like that; this is not an area I'm very familiar with). A website oriented to medical issues, like 23&me, is looking for yet another set of information. But they do all overlap some.
The law enforcement databases have to adhere to forensic standards, which means among other things more restrictive quality control on the process and standards for repeating the test to make sure it's correct. This is one of the reasons why it's sometimes such a long wait for results; a commercial DNA testing company can do hundreds of tests in the time it takes a forensic lab to do one. But the commercial DNA companies have a fairly high error rate. Forensic testing accepts basically no errors at all.
There are several databases where forensic DNA results are stored. The biggest is the FBI's CODIS database; others are the FACES lab at LSU and the big lab at University of North Texas. CODIS is primarily for law enforcement purposes and didn't used to be available for non-LE matching. NAMUS is a branch of the Department of Justice that is responsible for the missing person and unidentified and unclaimed person data. Many states have their own versions of DNA databases for state purposes and there are even some county-level ones like Los Angeles county.
Currently the UNT lab is the host for the NAMUS database and the operating software. Until a couple of years ago it was FACES. It could go somewhere else in the future but as of now, that's where it's at.
NAMUS has software that compares a given sample with all the other samples it knows about, which means searching all those other databases. There used to be issues with matches being missed because it didn't know about a database or it wasn't accessible or something. They were rare, but even rare isn't acceptable. I don't know the ins and outs of how they implemented it, but the new software supposedly deals with all those issues and I have not heard of a problem yet. It's been on line for a couple of years now, I think.
I'm gonna save this now before it disappears...
DNA usually gets submitted in two main ways: through CODIS or through UNT/NAMUS (they're effectively the same at the moment). There are a few private certified labs as well but I think they go through one of those two gatekeepers. If local or state LE does the test, it will go into CODIS.
The next time the database software does its thing, the new sample gets compared to everything that's in the database at that point. And when another new sample comes in, everything gets compared again. I don't know whether it bunches new submissions and runs them as a group every so often, or if it's constantly churning--I would love to talk to one of their database technical people about how they actually implemented it.
Some LE have said things that imply they can submit a sample for only a single run through the database, or for less frequent checks. For whatever reason, they want to keep control of the DNA locally and don't want just random comparisons. In those cases the DNA is not being compared automatically and there's no way to identify whether that's happening just from the public profiles.
This is how I understand the overall process, but I'm no expert the way some of our other members are. I could well be mistaken. Also, I'm really oversimplifying.
Hope this helps.
You can view old aerial maps here:
NETRonline: Historic Aerials - Viewer
You can even make a split screen and compare between two years. You can overlay the modern roads over old aerials and maps. There are other tools, as well. Just play around with it.
In this case, there is no aerial available for the immediate years around 1980. Closest year prior is 1960 and closest after is 1995. There is a topo map for 1978.
Here is a split screen of the area between 2014 and 1995 with road overlay:
we have to find a way to connect the friends of WCJD search with ours. I just don't know how.
Not familiar with “the friends of”. ??
What i mean is, the friends of WCJD might be searching for her but we don't know about and they don't know about us.
Oh ok didn’t know if you I meant and another online group. Ive thought about abkut that too it’s hard to believe nobody could be looking for our girl.