TX TX - Jason Landry Missing After Car Found Crashed Near Luling, #7

SimplyCass

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Confirmation bias. If you’ve already made up your mind that there was no foul play, in the future there’s no reason to look for evidence of foul play.

This approach was evident very early on in this case, when LE towed the car almost immediately upon finding it.

How hard is it to submit DNA?

All jmo

You need cause, just like how the effort to get a geofence warrant sputtered. Even the use of gemology databases to solve cold cases, despite the upside, has been contentious. Montana and Maryland just passed laws restricting its use. (NYT) Just earlier this year in NY, an appellate court barred the use of ''familial DNA' until legislators pass a law explicitly authorizing its use. (Gothamist)
 

5W's

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You need cause, just like how the effort to get a geofence warrant sputtered. Even the use of gemology databases to solve cold cases, despite the upside, has been contentious. Montana and Maryland just passed laws restricting its use. (NYT) Just earlier this year in NY, an appellate court barred the use of ''familial DNA' until legislators pass a law explicitly authorizing its use. (Gothamist)
In NY they did this? Geez, that defeats the pupose of solving crime IMO. Familial DNA has helped has helped crack so many cold cases. That is awful, very sad. Some very disturbing cases have been solved using this method. What so it saves a few bucks? IMO this is not going to help any in outright banning such an important crime fighting tool.
 

Valiant

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Also, how can they say that was a single car accident? Did he run in to something, reverse around and run in to it again with the back of his car? Kinda makes me think someone ran in to him to run him off the road. Was his bumper ever found? Why did police leave EVERYTHING just laying on the ground? Whether they thought he just wandered off drunk or not...they didn't do a single thing except call his parents to let them know the car had been found.
It was quite obvious how the accident occured. There were two impacts, not two vehicles Driving on gravel is very different than driving on pavement (trust me I grew up on gravel roads and it is way to easy to get a car sliding sideways, especially if someone is used to driving on pavement). Jason's car slid on the gravel and the left rear of the car hit a tree. This stopped the slide in that direction and sent the car into the fence. Jason's car hit two obstacles, no other vehicles.
 
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WingsOverTX

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It was quite obvious how the accident occured. There were two impacts, not two vehicles Driving on gravel is very different than driving on pavement (trust me I grew up on gravel roads and it is way to easy to get a car sliding sideways, especially if someone is used to driving on pavement). Jason's car slid on the gravel and the left rear of the car hit a tree. This stopped the slide in that direction and sent the car into the fence. Jason's car hit two obstacles. vehicles.
Your last sentence is unclear. Do you mean "Jason's car hit two obstacles, not vehicles."?

So many random factors like that road surface being gravel contributed to this sad case. If you add them together (road surface, surrounding terrain, stripping off clothes, potential drug use, no moon or street lights, very few homes where he could have found help, etc.) it's just perfect storm for an intractable mystery.

Then the inadequate LE response means the critical first hours were bungled (of course some of the same challenges Jason faced impacted the response also).

Sad.
 
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Valiant

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Your last sentence is unclear. Do you mean "Jason's car hit two obstacles, not vehicles."?

So many random factors like that road surface being gravel contributed to this sad case. If you add them together (road surface, surrounding terrain, stripping off clothes, potential drug use, no moon or street lights, very few homes where he could have found help, etc.) it's just perfect storm for an intractable mystery.

Then the inadequate LE response means the critical first hours were bungled (of course some of the same challenges Jason faced impacted the response also).

Sad.
Yes, two obstacles, no other vehicles. Sorry! I was able to fix my post.
 

JurassicParker

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Have they ever stated how fast they think he was going when he crashed? Stoned, lost and in the dark. I can't see him driving fast under those circumstances. He would need to be going a significant speed to get that kind of damage to his car. I'm not buying it. JMO.
 

branmuffin

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Confirmation bias. If you’ve already made up your mind that there was no foul play, in the future there’s no reason to look for evidence of foul play.

This approach was evident very early on in this case, when LE towed the car almost immediately upon finding it. How hard is it to submit DNA?

All jmo

LE could collect DNA at every site they attend but what is the criteria they use to collect it? And what do they compare it to? All of Jason's friends who probably were passengers in his vehicle on a regular basis? Family members? The volunteer FF who appears to be first at the scene?

There could be thirty samples of dna found in a vehicle that are not related to any crime. In the Susan Morphew disappearance DNA/fingerprints were found in the glove box of her vehicle that were traced to someone with a criminal record. Who would have access to SM's car? Maybe someone who works at a car wash? Car washes are one of the jobs someone with a felony conviction can work at.

I think the first responders at the scene of Jason's car were shortsighted in deciding that the accident scene was the result of a single car accident related to impairment. There was no evidence someone was with him. The items found suggested a lone occupant probably under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. There was really nothing to suggest foul play. However, it was a huge oversight to leave personal belongings of Jason's on the road for his father to find, which was unnecessarily cruel, imo, and smacks of lazy investigation techniques.

In Texas, LE can collect DNA samples from individuals charged with committing a felony offense, even if they are never prosecuted. They can keep that info indefinitely. You can't compel someone to provide a DNA sample just because. There has to be probable cause. It can't be a fishing expedition. What argument would you provide to a prosecutor to collect DNA from someone familiar with JS to compare to samples found in the vehicle?

And remember most small police departments are usually cash strapped. They don't have the funds to arbitrarily collect and submit samples. JMO
 
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WingsOverTX

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Have they ever stated how fast they think he was going when he crashed? Stoned, lost and in the dark. I can't see him driving fast under those circumstances. He would need to be going a significant speed to get that kind of damage to his car. I'm not buying it. JMO.
Or swerved to avoid a deer or other animal in the road? Maybe he panicked & sped up thinking "I want to get out of here"? Remember the gravel & dust on the road. If you hit your brakes sudden & hard on that surface even going 30 or 40, you might lose control then momentum takes over?

I don't remember if the tire tracks indicated possible overcorrection. That can send you spinning & even flipping your vehicle if conditions come together right.

I am puzzled that he got as far as Luling apparently without incident then went off course.
 

Valiant

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Or swerved to avoid a deer or other animal in the road? Maybe he panicked & sped up thinking "I want to get out of here"? Remember the gravel & dust on the road. If you hit your brakes sudden & hard on that surface even going 30 or 40, you might lose control then momentum takes over?

I don't remember if the tire tracks indicated possible overcorrection. That can send you spinning & even flipping your vehicle if conditions come together right.

I am puzzled that he got as far as Luling apparently without incident then went off course.
Unfortunately it is easy to see how this happened. He was on a paved road. The proper route would have been to turn at an intersection. Once that turn is missed, the road soon turns to gravel when you go straight through that intersection. Had he not lost Waze (probably unintentionally) I’m sure Waze would have gotten him turned around before the gravel.
 

WingsOverTX

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Just an observation. Unless Jason was abducted, pursued or encountered some other bad actor, do the reasons why his car ended up where it did really matter? IMO we lose focus when we analyze much of what has been thoroughly discussed months ago. I have contributed to that, so my bad, too!

I believe Jason walked into that tall brush & his remains are still hidden there.

I wish we could find some technology to enhance the probability of finding his remains. They tried analyzing satellite shots of the terrain, did multiple horse & ground searches & sadly nothing.

MOO
 

Megnut

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It's conceivable that Jason experienced a kind of sensory hallucination while driving which caused him to swerve, lose control of the vehicle, crash, exit the vehicle and strip out of this clothing.

He may IMO have been self-aware enough, however, to seek cover when the volunteer firefighter's vehicle came along.

And maybe he was still hiding when LE arrived. Undressed, under the influence, in no hurry to shake hand with LE. Waiting for them to leave so he could to return to his car.

Only they towed it.

By then, how cold he would have been! Cold, dark night, no car -- he may have sought shelter, he might already have been feeling the onslaught of hypothermia, and in that state, attempted to walk home or into the light. Strong, healthy man, he might've walled for hours, succumbing to the elements well outside any search boundary.

JMO
 

Texas_Lexus

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I just watched the Disappeared episode on Investigation Discovery and it was riveting. It shed new light on the case that I never even thought about before. Pena did a fantastic job explaining what he was doing to help the family, but the part about the letter that told what happened to Jason that was sent directly to his house was chilling. I live in Houston have been through Luling once. I thought its just a little old BBQ town, I didn't know there is a large gang/drug presence in the town and that it seems that there are people in the town know what might've happened to Jason, but are afraid for their safety for being a snitch. In the episode, I don't recall them mentioning that it was the VFF who initially found Jason's vehicle that night. As KL said, we are looking at a very small window time, trying to find out what happened. Now that I've processed all the information, I am leaning more towards believing that this wasn't what was presented, that Jason got lost, hit a tree, took off his clothes and disappeared into the cold Texas night or got eaten by feral hogs. I would still like to know more about the VFF and was he ever questioned. They did interview Jason's best friend who said in the days leading up to his disappearance, he was smoking a lot and barely eating. I keep thinking could something drug deal related happened in Luling and he was either chased or carjacked.
 

WingsOverTX

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I just watched the Disappeared episode on Investigation Discovery and it was riveting. It shed new light on the case that I never even thought about before. Pena did a fantastic job explaining what he was doing to help the family, but the part about the letter that told what happened to Jason that was sent directly to his house was chilling. I live in Houston have been through Luling once. I thought its just a little old BBQ town, I didn't know there is a large gang/drug presence in the town and that it seems that there are people in the town know what might've happened to Jason, but are afraid for their safety for being a snitch. In the episode, I don't recall them mentioning that it was the VFF who initially found Jason's vehicle that night. As KL said, we are looking at a very small window time, trying to find out what happened. Now that I've processed all the information, I am leaning more towards believing that this wasn't what was presented, that Jason got lost, hit a tree, took off his clothes and disappeared into the cold Texas night or got eaten by feral hogs. I would still like to know more about the VFF and was he ever questioned. They did interview Jason's best friend who said in the days leading up to his disappearance, he was smoking a lot and barely eating. I keep thinking could something drug deal related happened in Luling and he was either chased or carjacked.
Maybe. But where is the evidence? Saying nobody will talk for fear of the consequences of being a snitch is not evidence.

The VFF told the trooper it looked like a drunk driving accident. He stayed on scene until DPS got there. Those are not the actions of a man involved in a crime unless you think he did that as a cover up. What would his motive be?

How big a conspiracy is going to be concocted? If JL was dumped somewhere and his car wrecked by someone who staged the scene, where is something of evidentiary value to pursue that leads in that direction?

We have an oil worker who passed the area of the wreck around 11:30 p.m. and says he didn't see JL's car there. We have a 17 yo VFF who stayed at the scene. We have rumors of a drug deal or carjacking.

JL was driving to Missouri City on the right path until he didn't make the Luling turn. As a young driver who hadn't made that trip often, getting lost is not that odd. His perception of things was likely filtered by marijuana at least.

Who was he Snapchatting with when he lost Waze? I think it was a past girlfriend who lived in another state (apologies if I'm wrong). What does that person say?

What does the friend in Missouri City say about their plans to meet up and game? JL wasn't planning to see his parents until his sister arrived for Christmas.

Motive
Means
Opportunity

Fill in the blanks with something convincing. Speculation does not answer the three basic questions of any crime.

If the Texas AG is on the case, I would expect at least one of these three basics to have an evidentiary answer by now. If so, they can run a Geofencing search & maybe some other tech. If so, the DNA in the car may have evidentiary value.

Running a million speculative theories is pointless if JL's remains are in that large uninhabited landscape because of nothing nefarious.

Twenty years from now, some people will still believe it's a carjacking or drug deal gone wrong.

All because his body is not found.
JMO
 
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SimplyCass

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Have they ever stated how fast they think he was going when he crashed? Stoned, lost and in the dark. I can't see him driving fast under those circumstances. He would need to be going a significant speed to get that kind of damage to his car. I'm not buying it. JMO.

I don't think they have definitely said how fast he was going at the moment of impact, but someone here on WS did the drive and said it was extremely rough and had pot holes - basically saying that, if Jason was being chased, he would have blown a tire well before reaching the area where he crashed.

Something to note is that nobody knew that Jason was going to be home that night.

- He hadn't called his parents before leaving, hence the surprise when LE called at 2 a.m.
- KL says that he thought Jason would show up on Tuesday or Wednesday, closer to when his brother and sister were also set to be home.
- A friend says that Jason told him he intended to leave at around 8 p.m., but left at around 11 pm.
- IMO - 8 p.m. is a reasonable time to be there by midnight or so at home. 11 p.m. is an unusual time.

IMO, theories that this was staged, or a bad actor intervened in some way, or someone else was in the car (either with him or instead of him) are too much on the fringe to stand behind.
 

LauraAnne

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It's conceivable that Jason experienced a kind of sensory hallucination while driving which caused him to swerve, lose control of the vehicle, crash, exit the vehicle and strip out of this clothing.

He may IMO have been self-aware enough, however, to seek cover when the volunteer firefighter's vehicle came along.

And maybe he was still hiding when LE arrived. Undressed, under the influence, in no hurry to shake hand with LE. Waiting for them to leave so he could to return to his car.

Only they towed it.

By then, how cold he would have been! Cold, dark night, no car -- he may have sought shelter, he might already have been feeling the onslaught of hypothermia, and in that state, attempted to walk home or into the light. Strong, healthy man, he might've walled for hours, succumbing to the elements well outside any search boundary.

JMO
Those are very good observations.
 

LauraAnne

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I just watched the Disappeared episode on Investigation Discovery and it was riveting. It shed new light on the case that I never even thought about before. Pena did a fantastic job explaining what he was doing to help the family, but the part about the letter that told what happened to Jason that was sent directly to his house was chilling. I live in Houston have been through Luling once. I thought its just a little old BBQ town, I didn't know there is a large gang/drug presence in the town and that it seems that there are people in the town know what might've happened to Jason, but are afraid for their safety for being a snitch. In the episode, I don't recall them mentioning that it was the VFF who initially found Jason's vehicle that night. As KL said, we are looking at a very small window time, trying to find out what happened. Now that I've processed all the information, I am leaning more towards believing that this wasn't what was presented, that Jason got lost, hit a tree, took off his clothes and disappeared into the cold Texas night or got eaten by feral hogs. I would still like to know more about the VFF and was he ever questioned. They did interview Jason's best friend who said in the days leading up to his disappearance, he was smoking a lot and barely eating. I keep thinking could something drug deal related happened in Luling and he was either chased or carjacked.
What was the letter that told what happened to Jason? In the days leading up to his disappearance, he was studying for and taking final exams. I have wondered, and asked, and never found an answer, to how he did on those final tests?
 

idrinkandknowthings

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The VFF told the trooper it looked like a drunk driving accident. He stayed on scene until DPS got there. Those are not the actions of a man involved in a crime unless you think he did that as a cover up. What would his motive be?
You’re a young firefighter driving home from the station. You’re driving down a road you’ve driven down many times before. There’s never anyone on it this late at night -- you can go as fast as you want. You’re enjoying the thrill of speeding around turns on the dark road. Suddenly you round a corner to see a man right in front of you. You don’t have time to react. It was an accident. There’s no reason your life needs to be ruined. What’s done is done. You decide to cover it up.

I’ll let you fill in the rest. Obviously, this is 100% pure tinfoil hat speculation on my part and there is 0 evidence that the VFF or anyone else was involved in Jason’s disappearance. Still, I would be interested to see evidence that 100% ruled this out.
 

LauraAnne

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You’re a young firefighter driving home from the station. You’re driving down a road you’ve driven down many times before. There’s never anyone on it this late at night -- you can go as fast as you want. You’re enjoying the thrill of speeding around turns on the dark road. Suddenly you round a corner to see a man right in front of you. You don’t have time to react. It was an accident. There’s no reason your life needs to be ruined. What’s done is done. You decide to cover it up.

I’ll let you fill in the rest. Obviously, this is 100% pure tinfoil hat speculation on my part and there is 0 evidence that the VFF or anyone else was involved in Jason’s disappearance. Still, I would be interested to see evidence that 100% ruled this out.
Why would the volunteer firefighter then call the police and wait for them to show up to investigate? Additionally, if a car slammed into Jason's naked body in the middle of the road, it does seem there would be SOME forensic evidence left, on the VFF car, and the road.
 

MadMcGoo

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This case has always reminded me so much of this one. I know it’s been brought up here before but I’m not sure if people are aware of the outcome of that case. Likely outcome I should say.

It’s something a lot of people suspected from the beginning but to follow the case was frustrating. Like Jason’s there were (and still are) so many unanswered questions. In the end, unfortunately, I doubt either case will leave followers with answers.

A tragedy by definition. JMO
 

Texas_Lexus

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Here’s a screenshot of that letter that Peña referenced in the Disappeared episode about JL. I think it was just intriguing to me because it got me thinking about a whole different view of the case.

Now if anybody is following the case of Michelle Reynolds , the Alvin teacher who went missing and was found on video walking away from her car on the streets of New Orleans, her phone and credit cards were found in her car. A person working the case said that when foul play is involved usually the victims phone is destroyed. And we all know JL phone was in his car.

And that’s why we’re all here still talking about the case over a year and a half later because there are just so many possible scenarios. And so much mystery.

<modsnip: rumors>
 

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