TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #2

Discussion in '1970's Missing' started by Cubby, Mar 17, 2010.

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  1. thebigcookie

    thebigcookie Active Member

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    Bumping this again because it's getting too close to the bottom. One week from today will be 40 years.
     


  2. thebigcookie

    thebigcookie Active Member

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    From Rusty Arnold's (Rachel's brother) Facebook page:
    Tuesday December 23rd 2014 at 2:00 pm we will be holding a vigil On the South East corner of the parking lot at LaGran Plaza located at 4200 S, Freeway for our Missingtrio. That is the corner of 35w and W. Seminary the place where we found Rachel's can on December 23rd 1974 exactly 40 years ago. We will be releasing
    40 yellow balloons.Yellow is the color for the missing. Everybody will have the chance to sign the balloons before we release them. Also one member from each family will at the same time release a beautiful white homing pigeon that will represent each of our missing girls.
    We have come a long way to get this far and we still got a long way to go. We were sure we would have all our answers before the 23rd of December but due to reasons beyond our control we were unable to make our announcements and meet our deadline. That's okay even though we didn't meet our goal, major positive progress has and is being made everyday.
    I would also like to thank all our Facebook friends for all your support and we ask that you join us on our day of remembrance for our Missingtrio.
    Everybody please share this post to you timelines and so on and so on...

    Thanks for all the support,
    Rusty Arnold
    ‪#‎MissingTrio‬
    www.MissingTrio.com
     
  3. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Member

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    One factor that sets this missing persons case apart from most others is that it involves more than one child disappearing in the same instance. Quite probably a multiple abduction at a shopping mall.

    There are, unfortunately, several other similar cases which occurred around that same time frame.
     
  4. Expertrep

    Expertrep New Member

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    No evidence, but strong motive. Well I never had a sister, but sharing a husband doesn't seem normal to me. Trouble with dad at home, marring young to several year older man that was once engaged to ones sister and then sis is living with them after only a few months of marriage. Seems motive to mw.
     
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  5. Expertrep

    Expertrep New Member

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    Were any prints taken from Rachel's car ? Was it her personal car or a family car? Do they have any evidence in storage they could obtain DNA from?
     
  6. thebigcookie

    thebigcookie Active Member

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    Today marks 40 years since their disappearance. We still don't know what happened. I've even wondered if they could have been taken to Mexico because it was only about 6 or 7 hours away and something bad happen to them there. Was this story ever reported in Mexico? I still hope we can find out the truth one day.
     
  7. t lonnie

    t lonnie New Member

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    I went to seminary south (lagran plaza) today to join the release of the balloons and maybe talk to rusty , it was supposed to be at 2 but I was there from 1:45 to about 2:20 and did not see anyone, I did see it on the 5 oclock news so I must have missed it , was really wanting to talk to rusty , oh well ,maybe next time
     
  8. greenpalm

    greenpalm I don't say much unless I've really thought it thr

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  9. sweet bee

    sweet bee New Member

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    I spent every night for a week going through every post on the two threads concerning this case. if anyone is still following let me know, and i'll post me thoughts/opinions. just dont want to be adding to a dead board.
     
  10. TechWriter797

    TechWriter797 Registered Voter

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    This case haunts me. I have a few ideas, too. I'd be interested in hearing yours.
     
  11. thebigcookie

    thebigcookie Active Member

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    I follow this board and the Lyon Sisters one heavily. This one had a lot of postings at one point but lately hasn't had much. I'd be really interested to hear what all you have to say on this one. The Lyon Sisters, on the other hand, seems to have a lot of activity, mainly because there has been a lot going on concerning that case in the past few months, but nothing really going on for this one.
     
  12. sweet bee

    sweet bee New Member

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    My thoughts are all over the place, so I gotta kinda sort through it as I go. EDIT: this was a lot longer than i expected!! take your time reading it, i'm so sorry !

    The Facebook thing: Trlica was her married last name, her maiden name was Arnold, so the wrong last name has been used to search for her. If she's alive, it's definitely been changed, anyway.

    Almost all of the suggested scenarios from the first thread have made sense to me, and I could come up with my own ideas with each one. I'm not sure yet which one I feel strongest about.

    Someone they knew: I can almost guarantee it wasn't anyone they knew. They would've addressed the card to "Tommy" instead of "Tomas", as most people suggested. But since we can't/shouldn't rule out anything without more evidence, I'd say IF it was someone they knew then they left the mall. A friend or acquaintance would never try something on mall grounds. (Something I just thought of: did any of their friends or classmates work at the mall?) They would've left since they trusted this person, and then foul play occured. My inclination is to believe that they left to buy and/or smoke weed. The 9 year old being there does make me wonder, but I know my older sisters smoked pot with me around and I had no idea. They'd say "We'll be out in a minute, wait in the car while we find the keys" and then smoke before coming out. It's not unreasonable for them to do drugs with a child around. And 14 is DEFINITELY old enough for someone to be doing drugs. I don't think there would be anyone who knows about it offering the information. They probably would think it's irrelevant to the case. Other than that, I'm not entirely sure what would be enough of a reason to leave the mall. I'm only 25, so it wasn't that long ago when I was sneaking off to smoke with my friends, even when I should've been at the movies or the mall. They even could have snuck off with someone they barely know, buying drugs is a shady process as it is.

    Anyway, that would be the most likely scenario in my mind. Another idea was that it was a security guard or mall worker who knew the mall well, and knew the underground tunnels. It makes sense, since many people who grew up in the area discussed those tunnels and how easily it was to get lost. That was on the first thread. There was also a security office down there. It probably wouldn't be hard to get them down there, like other people said...they could have accused them of shoplifting (rachel DID go in with a bag of jeans from the Army Navy store....) and asked them to go down there. The girls could have been down there finding a short cut, and they got "caught" since it was against the rules, and then were held in the security office. Either way, it was suggested that they were held all day and finally left with a secuirty guard around 11 PM (when the older secuirty guard reported seeing them in a white truck with another guard). I doubt this very, very much. It doesn't make any sense, it would be too risky. Someone else would definitely notice three girls sitting there for most of the day...It's possible they were held for a short period and then moved. I don't know, I just can't come up with a reasonable scenario for them to be down there..other than if they used it as a short cut or a meeting place or something. Other people who know the area did say it was a great place to hid people(s) if you needed to. It's likely, I guess.

    Sightings of Rachel - I don't think so. She might have a doppleganger (someone who looks similar) but it's just too unlikely. Coming to her hometown around Christmas to distantly watch her family she can't talk to? That's something out of a Nicholas Sparks movie. It's equally as likely that she's a ghost that can be seen around Christmas, the time of her disappearance.

    Sex trafficking - Sounds more likely than a friend or security guard killing all three of them. If it wasn't Debardeleben, then this could be the case. If it was him, then they were definitely killed.

    The letter sent to Tommy - Rachel did not write this, there's just no way. 17 year old girls do not have childish scrawl, and if she had written with her non-dominant hand (right) I doubt the letter would have been very legible. And it would not have been addressed to Thomas A. Trlica. Rachel's real first name was Mary. I'm not sure how licenses were back then, but I imagine they'd have to have your full legal name on them. Would she be able to just use Rachel for her signature? That all makes a big difference. He could have mimicked her signature, instead of using her first name on her license. It was said that only Tommy got a letter because Rachel was the only one with ID on her. A 9 year old and 14 year old don't have any reason to have ID, so I completely 100% agree with this point. The letter was definitely mailed from the box at the mall, it wasn't dropped into the mailbox directly. Someone who previously lived in the area and worked in the post office confirmed that if it was sent early enough in the day, it could be delivered the next morning around Christmas time, since more people were employed by the post office. I think it was mailed in the afternoon. The letter was written on paper that was too big for the envelope, so it was folded over. Clearly he just grabbing things to write on, perhaps in a hurry. It would have been mailed long before 11 PM - the supposed time of the security guard sighting of them in the white truck. Mike Debardeleben had abducted people and returned them to their cars before. Someone suggested that maybe he was trying to return the girls to Rachel's car and realized he couldn't get them back without them being seen....this doesn't fit in with the timing of the letter. Even though it sounds plausible, it just doesn't work with the letter.
    There was a lot of discussion concerning the wording of the parking lot where the car was. "Upper lot" was used, many people who lived in the area said that "upper lot" would never be used by someone who didn't work at the mall. I don't think this necessarily means it was a mall employee, just someone who interpreted the parking spot this way...so I don't think it would have been a younger person or someone who went to that mall all the time or anything. It's a suspicious way to say it, but it doesn't narrow the suspects down to mall employees only.
    There were also questions as to whether the girls made it back to the car. I don't think so. Rachel took the jeans with her into the mall to pick out an outfit, but the jeans never made it back to the car. Even if Rachel hadn't found a shirt and she went back to the car, the jeans at least would have been left in there. The suspect would have had to known where the car was, though. He probably watched them come out of the car and then followed them. Either way, the girls probably didn't make it to the car on their own. I don't know if the car was moved, but I doubt it. If Rachel chose to park there, then it was the perfect place for someone to be scouting out potential victims. It was said many times that the lot she parked in was secluded and the most sketchy place to park.

    People they know - Shawna, Tommy's ex & baby mama, was brought up. I doubt she had anything to do with this, but I guess you never know. She could have hired someone or gotten someone to take her out, and the other two girls were collateral damage. I just don't think someone hired to do something to a 17 year old would go ahead and wipe out two kids also.
    Debra, her sister - Debra and Tommy had dated before Tommy married Rachel, which IS very weird, since they also lived with her. But I don't think it was the cause of any real tension, Debra seems to have blown it off as not a big deal. I don't think she'd do something to her own sister because of a boy, that just seems silly. Her not wanting to take a lie detecter test is weird, but it could be for any amount of reasons. Maybe her and Tommy WERE secretly doing it behind Rachel's back, and Debra was afraid of being asked about it. Maybe Debra knows more about it than she's letting on. There were areas in the polygraph where she was "less than truthful" but that doesn't necessarily mean she did it...maybe those areas were related to a sexual relationship with Tommy? Oh, people also said it was weird that Debra wanted to stay in bed instead of go out with Rachel, as if she knew not to be around Rachel at that time since she knew something would happen. I really doubt it. I think she probably just had no reason to go to the mall and didn't feel like it. No one is obligated to go to the mall with their sister.
    Tommy - This is more possible than Rachel's sister, for sure. But I don't think so. There would be so many easier ways to deal with her, rather than attacking two other people as well. Plus, I don't know if he even knew where she was that morning, I believe they said Tommy was at work.

    The general consensus before was that it was likely Mike Debardeleben. He was similar to Ted Bundy in that he could easily impersonate authority figures (or people who need help) and use his charm to get people to trust them right away. There are just so many reasons they could have willingly gone with Debardeleben...people have mentioned that he could have posed as a cop and ask their help in catching a shoplifter and told them they'd get a reward for doing it. It sounds so ridiculous, but people were definitely more naive about this sort of thing at that time. I don't think dugs weren't explored enough, considering the time period and ages. Debardeleben could be anything he wanted, really. He was an expert at changing his looks and becoming whatever character was necessary. If you read up on him, you'd see what a conniving successful serial killer he was. He lived in this area at the time and moved away shortly after. He also told his ex-wife (who left him shortly before they disappeared) that he'd start killing children if she left.

    All of the theories/ideas have their own merits, so it's hard for me to decide the most logical conclusion to me personally. The only way for someone to be able get all three girls is through enticement or luring...not attacked out nowhere. Debardeleben seems to be the person who would be experienced enough to pull it off, but it could have been done in a bunch of ways, he's such a master at disguising himself.
     
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  13. thebigcookie

    thebigcookie Active Member

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    Interesting. Back in September, I went down this same rabbit trail and read every one of these posts. You seem to be convinced that Debardeleben is the culprit in this. What's interesting is that Debardeleben was also looked at in the Lyon Sisters case at one time as possibly being the one to kidnap them as well and may have possibly played the tape recorder man role there as well as he was in Wheaton, MD at that time. At this point, I don't think it was him but the Welch family, especially the POIs Lloyd Welch and his uncle Richard that played a part in their disappearance but I won't go into all the details on that one here. You should read the Lyon sisters boards here and see the similarities in it and this one in Fort Worth. It's just interesting that they took place just three months apart and before a major holiday.

    Now on this one, another thing I have wondered about is if the girls could have been taken to another country and sold into some kind of sex slavery there and been brainwashed so badly they don't know who they are and assumed a new identity. It is only a 6 or 7 hour drive from Fort Worth to Mexico. They could have been taken there. I wonder if this story ever made the news in Mexico. I also wonder if they could have even been given fake passports and sent on a plane somewhere overseas? Has anyone ever thought of that. I'll be interested to here what anyone else has to say on that.

    There's been much progress made on the Lyon case and it is likely we will know something on that one by hopefully June. I just wish we could get somewhere on this one and find out the truth. But Rachel's brother Rusty said he knows someone somewhere knows what happened and he still thinks this case is solvable.
     
  14. sweet bee

    sweet bee New Member

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    Yeah, I did read about the possiblity of Debardeleben being responsible for the Lyons sisters. The timeline definitely matches up, as well as the MO. I read a few mentions of Welch, but never pursued research into him, I will have to do that. In the case of the Lyons sisters, though, he was seen in public acting sketchy around these girls. I'm not sure Debardeleben would have gone that far, but you never know. I'll read about Welch and look at the similarities.

    I did think of the sex trafficking, I agree with you. Brainwashing is real, and it's strong. They very well might have forgotten who they were or were convinced the identity they were given is real. If thats the case, Debardeleben or Welch are unlikely suspects. I was thinking about their ages, and trafficking actually does make sense in some ways. 9, 14 and 17 covers the age spectrum...pre-pubescent, a girl currently going through puberty, and then a girl who is nearly an adult. It sounds gross, but there's something for everyone in that group. I could see why they'd be targeted.

    Rusty and Debra seem to have disappeared from all this, for some reason. They were eagerly involved and are now silent. It does make me wonder if they're staying quiet because other leads or suspects are being pursued. Otherwise, there's no reason for them to have stopped caring or actively trying to find out what happened to their sister. I hope they ARE onto something, this case is just crazily cold, I'd love to see it solved before the members of Rachel's family have passed.
     
  15. minnieewing

    minnieewing New Member

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    I continue to Hope that there will be resolve in this case, and I truly believe there are answers to be found! We just can not give up and the research must continue!
     
  16. sweet bee

    sweet bee New Member

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    i completely agree!!
     
  17. thebigcookie

    thebigcookie Active Member

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  18. sweet bee

    sweet bee New Member

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    wow! just read the article, that's awesome. i wonder why he came forward with that information so much later? it seems odd.
     
  19. thebigcookie

    thebigcookie Active Member

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    Bumping this up again since today marks 40 years since the disappearance of the Lyon Sisters. This case somehow had gotten pushed back all the way to page 3 but it needs more exposure. They seem to be on track with the Lyon case and are doing more searches this week. I only hope we will know the truth to both the Lyon case and this case. It's also been said that some of the Welches were in Texas at one point and might even know something about these three girls. I'm still puzzled as to what could have happened to them.
     
  20. sweet bee

    sweet bee New Member

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    bump. has anyone heard anything re: the lyons sisters and potential link to this case?
     
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