TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #2

Discussion in '1970's Missing' started by Cubby, Mar 17, 2010.

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  1. I'm sorry...people will be disappointed by the truth. It won't be as interesting as all the serial killer theories, or conspiracy plots. There won't be a security guard or convoluted human trafficking scheme. It is a study in human behavior with twists and turns that are stranger than fiction. I don't know how any murder is solved in a vaccuum, even with all the great thinkers in this think-tank. But I am indebted to each of you for the questions that helped me dig deeper and not quit. This is not a hobby or a past-time I would pick. Finding these girls is trading one pain that has some scarring for new and different pain - and will create pain for many others, innocents, for generations. Righting a wrong is costly. So...thank you, in advance, for choosing to think.
     
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  2. One more thing...I have tried to prepare some folks...soften the ground. These family members are going to hate what "justice" looks like. There won't be a trial. There will a "let's make a deal" thing. He's 65, so any sentence is dying in prison. He did this when he had nothing to lose. Now, he has a "family," no money to speak of, and he's in bad health. That's a death penalty. I do have compassion for the people he brought into his life since that day; and I'm already sad for them. If he had been caught, tried, and convicted in 1975 - ALL those people would have been spared. He wasn't, so they won't be. Even the State can only kill a man one time. Three lives, one man. Righting a wrong costs a lot. Whenever I'm on the fence about right and wrong, I ask myself, "What's the easy thing to do? What's the hard thing to do?" Nine times out of ten, the hard thing to do is the right thing to do. That's why I can't quit until everyone has said "NO." Over 8 years in; I'm no quitter. I still believe in LE.
     
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  3. SandG

    SandG New Member

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    BUMP! I really think this case will be solved soon. Well, I hope it is!
     
  4. Philigumbo

    Philigumbo Verified registered nurse

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    FW_Cat, where, in your opinion, does this case stand with the Police Department? Is it considered totally cold?

    And, I agree, lots of people would be hurt, but justice must be served for the girls and their families.
     
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  5. This is the "Liquid Nitrogen" of all unsolved FW cases. Also FWPD "Kryptonite." I have not been able to inspire FWPD to investigate the things that should have been done and can still be done. Even ruling something OUT is useful. From an air-conditioned cubicle the data and records that exist in the case file could put this or that to bed. When you eliminate what "could" have happened, one by one, by one...you end up with what happened. Applying the scientific method is a useful approach no matter the problem that needs to be solved. Compounding FWPD's lack of imagination and creativity - there is a family member that has been a bottleneck in communication - the self-appointed spokesperson for the families, who I trusted to be acting on behalf of everyone. I came to realize not only was that not the case - he destroyed his credibility over and over and over with LE. I was the person with no skin in the game, a mountain of insight - the next-best thing to an eye-witness, better in some ways. He burnt down bridges faster than I could build them. Me - obsessed with finding the girls; this person obsessed with looking for them. Important distinction. So, anyway - about "Kryptonite." In the late 90's, with all the excitement over the potential of DNA, federal grants were handed out for the asking. Every major city was funded to create, within the homicide division, cold case units. The best trained people all over the country, former FBI, detectives coming out of retirement - very exciting! From the wrongly convicted to the victim's family that had nothing left but hope; a great deal of justice was achieved. FWPD had 3 detectives staffing that new "Cold Case" department. Doesn't sound like much, but it was. Before that - if a detective wanted to work on an old/dead investigation, he asked, and was allowed to. In every case, these "assignments" had to fit around primary duties. Off-duty time was the only uninterrupted time. No support, assistance or resources available. Impossible. Anyway, that special funding petered out around 2002. These cold case detectives were no longer able to spend all their duty hours drilling down in a focused way. One detective in homicide has been designated as the "Cold Case" person ever since. No one wants to announce there really is NO cold case division. He would do his best, between taking on new cases, getting called to scenes. A title and responsibility without the time or tools. Personally, I suspect homicide has a burner phone they play hot potato with. The last Cold Case detective I spoke with "retired" less than a year into the job. Sounded young to me. What made this case FWPD "Kryptonite" was a press conference called by the original unit where; in front of all 3 families, and the world they strongly implied they were on the verge of a major break in the case. When I watched this in 2009 I knew. Don't tell me they are testing the letter and envelope for DNA? Of course they were. This at a time when results were 9-18 months out. They banked on proof of nothing. Somebody lied? So what? I guess they thought somebody would crack and confess. Their Perry Mason moment was never coming. Insurmountable egg on their face. Either what I have described is true OR they were abducted by aliens. If FWPD solves this case - it will happen when the aliens return them...but only if the aliens deliver them to the steps of the downtown headquarters. There is no political will to work on this case. That's why I've decided to assemble something to present to AG's office. This case needs to be heard by a grand jury - before everyone dies. If suspect dies, it will be closed for good. Sorry for such a long answer, but there are no simple questions.
    If justice can be found this side of heaven; what kind of person would I be if I just threw up my hands and said "Oh, well"? I can't quit until I'm sure everything I can do is done. We have a brand new Cold Case detective - Jeremy Rhoden. Hope he's allowed to do his job. Pass him the burner phone.
     
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  6. Philigumbo

    Philigumbo Verified registered nurse

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    FW_Cat, your passion is palpable and I can feel how much you care for these people. I completely understand the distinction you mean in “finding” the girls vs “looking” for them.
     
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  7. Philigumbo

    Philigumbo Verified registered nurse

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    Sorry, my keyboard froze...So, FW_Cat, what can we do with the new investigator? Call, email, petition? What can, WE, as citizens, do, to get this case back on the front burner? Have you spoken to Jeremy Rhoden?
     
  8. zensiert

    zensiert Member

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    I had not seen this news piece before:
    http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/New-Efforts-to-Find-Three-Girls-Who-Vanished-in-1974-405689995.html

    The article confirms there are several cars in Benbrook Lake, however,"Fort Worth police say at this point there's nothing to indicate they are connected to the case."
    Wouldn't they want to be sure, and check inside the cars?

    btw, how did the "girls in a sunken car, in a lake" theory come about? Is it just a guess or speculation that theoretically they could be in a car in a lake, or is there something substantive (def. "having a firm basis in reality and therefore important, meaningful, or considerable") that backs this up?
     
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  9. No I haven't spoken to him. I don't plan to. I have thought about writing him [snail.] I have a number of original documents that would grab his immediate attention because there will be no question they came from the case file. Individually, they don't amount to much. The FACT they were removed will get someone in big trouble. Not me. I don't want his attention unless I'm prepared for it. My direct communication with FWPD has been limited, by design. I don't belong in the nut-job/not-right-in-the-head pile. I don't think I am, but if I am - getting up on my hind legs and barking is just about the worst thing I could do. If he does his job, he'll figure out the right questions. After I figured those questions out, it took less than 45 minutes to squish the dots close together. But, I know much more about the circumstances than he can possibly know. He probably wasn't even born. I'm keeping my ear to the ground, but time is running out. So, I'm conflicted, and uncertain, wondering what I may regret for good. In 5 years, 10 years what will I wish I had done? Doing nothing is a decision. Indecision, may or may not be, my biggest problem. That's why I'm talking, I guess. This thread is a message in a bottle.
    To answer your question; I can't think of any action on the part of anyone or any group that would inspire LE to solve the problem they believe cannot be solved. This case needs a hero not a miracle. If anyone out there is spiritual at all, pray a 55 gallon drum of wisdom and insight gets poured all over Jeremy Rhoden. You can't lose hope; you do adjust what you hope for. Ask the universe to right this wrong, by whatever means it takes. If you met any of these people you'd know one thing for sure - life goes on. No one dies of pain or suffering. As long as you're breathing there's more right with you than wrong with you - no matter what is wrong.
     
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  10. Philigumbo

    Philigumbo Verified registered nurse

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    FW_Cat, you may be the only hero here. And I know I’m not the 17 year old kid I was traipsing around the Dallas Fort Worth Midcities anymore when this happened. I’m a grandma and Julie would be in her FIFTIES! Rachel was my age. Renee and Julie younger! They were robbed of their WHOLE LIVES!
    I’m so passionate about it because I graduated high school, went to college, became a nurse, raised children, have grandchildren...was here to care for my parents in sickness and their deaths...and these 3 girls were robbed of those things, and their families, too. You know well more than I, a stranger, how their families have suffered.
    We are getting to old to hang on to secrets. Put all you know here for archiving. Get it all out! Talk to Mr. Rhoden. Be the dog that won’t quit barking! I’ll go with you! I’m local! But don’t go out without a fight!
    Of the many unforgettable things you’ve shared, that you’ve theorized and that you know, one thing I’ve thought about a lot, is Rachel possibly being taken to the back of the car and the truck lid being raised for privacy from the other girls. If that happened, how frightened all three must have been. They were babies. We don’t know if that happened, it’s theory, but we used to raise the trunk for privacy at Grapevine for make-out sessions so that stuck in my head. It was a thing of the times.
    They needed a savior right that moment and they didn’t get one.
    FW_Cat, you’re all they have.
     
  11. Philigumbo

    Philigumbo Verified registered nurse

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    Perhaps Post #425 will be more explanatory than I can be. FW_Cat is better with words than I. :)
     
  12. Teetle

    Teetle New Member

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    It's not over yet! Keep the faith
     
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  13. I think Rachel ended up in that trunk. He slammed it shut. Boxed-in, I think the heartless you-know-what, started that car without a word, sent it over the bluff and never looked back. Of dozen or so tales from around 2000-2001 when that federal grant breathed life into this case, next to the letter/envelope fiasco, one other stands out. Science to the rescue, again. Using ground penetrating sonar three "voids" were detected in the backyard of Tommy and Rachel's former home. Somehow, resources were found and wasted digging up that backyard. I knew where this story was going to end up the first time I heard it. I've been in construction over 30 years. I listened and sure enough, those "clandestine graves" yielded construction debris, rubble, Dr.Pepper cans, and other trash. Those houses went up fast. Probably every 5th house in that area has a void or two. Builders didn't haul junk away - they took any available piece of earth-moving equipment and buried it. Standard practice. What floors me about that story is this: a bunch of intelligent people with power and authority, obtained a search warrant, destroyed someone's backyard, and not one of them stopped to ask how TT had the means, let alone the time, and opportunity time to bury 3 bodies - undetected by FWPD when he was the prime suspect by the end of the first 24 hours. No one said, "Not so fast..." With LE's history of squandering resources, on stuff that makes NO sense, it's no wonder they are not inspired by insiders that don't treat them with respect, make demands, and bad-mouth their efforts to whoever will listen. I've made a decision to bring another head into the think-tank. Privately. Not a priest, but something like that. An off-the-record resource with keys to the men's room. It will work unless it doesn't. It won't back-fire, so I'll take a run at it. And it will cross paths with Carla Walker, so it should be interesting.
    "The main thing is to keep the Main Thing...THE MAIN THING" ~Vince Lombardi

    Eye on the prize.
     
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  14. Philigumbo

    Philigumbo Verified registered nurse

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    How heartless, how frightened they must have been! I wonder if the digging up of the yard was something the families had been requesting for years and the FWPD finally agreed. Since DA and TT were thought by family to be in cahoots, perhaps they thought the girls could have been brought back there at a later time and buried. I don’t know...makes no sense, you’re right.
    You’re new person sounds intriguing to say the least!!
     
  15. Philigumbo

    Philigumbo Verified registered nurse

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    You betcha :loveyou:
     
  16. I have a friend, (retired pathologist.) Discussing his work - something I could never do - was always interesting. He told me something 35 years ago I never forgot. About family members; he dropped his clinical mask for minute. "I'm there to be the messenger of the scientific facts of a death. And unless there were an uncertainty; I wouldn't be performing an autopsy. I don't perform the routine autopsies - these are painful situations involving people who should not be dead. Sometimes families have a lot of questions about the report. Some just nod and walk off. The number one question I'm asked - so I always prepare for it is this; in all it's forms: "...did he suffer? did she suffer long?..." Lord, what do you tell them? "I find a way to tell them what they need to hear." And they always believe you? "Yes." That must be hard on you. "It isn't hard to be kind."

    I asked another friend, the spokesperson for Arlington FD for years. Since he started as an EMT - attended many horrible crash sites - saw horrific casualties. I asked him how the newspaper can say they died "instantly." Gary told me, "We can tell that in the first 5 minutes." HOW? "There is little or no blood. When the heart stops, within 100th of a second, without pressure there is no bleeding - no matter what injuries we can see that would have been mortal anyway. I was first to arrive at a scene, off duty - head on collison, everyone was dead - in their seatbelts. Their clothes were shredded from the force of the impact - burst at the seams." Yikes! At least they didn't suffer. "I didn't say say that. A lot of suffering can be pacted into 10 or 15 seconds."

    If people were as afraid of living as they are of dying they'd do a better job of it; I always say.

    No comment on what people thought along the way, or still believe.
     
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  17. Philigumbo

    Philigumbo Verified registered nurse

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    Well said. Thank you, FW_Cat.
     
  18. sloane7777

    sloane7777 Well-Known Member

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    Carla s Brother Steve is a my friends next door neighbor and is not in great health I hope it does bring him some answers he is blind sand sure could have used his sisters help and it's very heartbreaking

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
     
  19. To the 'Thinkers' in the community: Here is something to think about in a case that is in "circumstantial evidence purgatory." There is an understandable frustration when the district attorney's office won't arrest or indict. You have a mountain of circumstantial evidence. So a few words of advice on how to get to the tipping point. You can bring a "Walk's Like A Duck, Quacks Like A Duck" case to a jury by seeing it from the DA's point of view ; an investigation can get a 2nd, even 3rd bite at the apple. "Not Guilty" is forever. Every attorney on both sides is terrified of those 12 people. "Beyond a reasonable doubt," is a good test for any number of steps along the way. There two types of evidence - objective, and subjective. Say, someone is stabbed in a crowded concert. There are 45 eye-witnesses. Sounds like a good thing until you interview them all and cannot find even TWO that agree on what happened, in what sequence, even what the offender was wearing, along with other descriptors. So, it is both good and bad - subjective. Clients would die if they knew this, but lawyers advise them to take a polygraph (can't be used as evidence) like it's a "rehearsal" or of some other value in their defense. That's crap. Lawyers believe in polygraph results. And most defense lawyers expect their clients to lie to them. It's a tool, and a valuable one. So, why isn't it admissable? It is subjective; results are interpreted. Based on the examiner, the quality of questions, the subject's fitness for the exam; opposing counsel side can produce a professional that will disagree with the results. If dozens of witnesses can be impeached, and a confession isn't obtained, a case is "built" on physical evidence. So how does ANY circumstantial case make it to court? By passing the "beyond a reasonable doubt test." I know who did it, you know, any fool can see...an easy hill to climb. Handwriting analysis? My expert can beat up your expert. Timelines and alibis are like nailing jello to a wall. That is why I get excited about ruling things OUT. If I dumped a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle on the floor...okay. Work it. What if I said, "Not so fast; the solution to the puzzle only takes 9 pieces - and two of them weren't in the box." That's a circumstantial case. When you strip away what didn't happen you move ball down the field. The best circumstantial evidence can be quantified. That's why I want the envelope to undergo a gas chromatography test. If there is DNA, it's co-mingled as a result of how such evidence was collected. Worthless. Handwriting analyis - no one agrees. But who addresses a Christmas card in pencil, and uses a person's first name as the only return address (weird on it's face since it is mailed to where she lives); who does THAT? Maybe some people. Who addresses an envelope with a pencil, and adds a return address with a different pencil. That isn't reasonable. That is strong, objective, circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial cases are won by the inexplicable nature of and a preponderance of those things. So, you don't need a mountain of those. Nine would be great - but in the absence physical evidence, 7 will do. This did not start out as a fact but it is very powerful one today; 3 girls went shopping and vanished from the face of the earth. There is NO reasonable explanation for that to happen. It's reasonable that a crime took place. It's unreasonable they were randomly plucked out of that parking lot. Statistically - beyond improbable. Almost 43 years rules out plenty of uninvestigatied theories, conspiracies, and the like. It's been suggested on this forum over the years that the family's contact this or that "Unsolved" TV show, new ones come along. There is something all of those stories seem to have in common, no remaining suspects. That's why none of the producers will touch this story. They talk to the police. You'd have to believe FWPD hopes this case is never ​solved to accept they'd run off nationwide exposure. And that's not reasonable. They have a suspect, so there is hope.
     
  20. Philigumbo

    Philigumbo Verified registered nurse

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    FW_Cat, do you know if TT was admistered a polygraph?

    I believe, which I’ve stated before, that the DNA on the envelope is unknown because it’s from mail (Christmas card?) received at the house and used for convenience to give to police. With the very local (neighborhood) postmark, its a shame the neighborhood wasn’t canvassed at the time to determine if anyone had mailed a Christmas Card, or any card or letter (sympathy card or “thinking of you card” for them missing) to TT in the previous few days. Heck, it could have been a “poison pen” letter...” (“I know what you did!”)
    That card or letter sender would have recognized their own handwriting.
    Another missed opportunity.
    The envelope has been published. I wonder if anyone has ever claimed the handwriting? Or thought it looked familiar? I wonder who has more propensity to write in pencil, men or women? These days I’d only use a pen on mailed envelopes, but back in the ‘70’s, pencil on a locally mailed Christmas card wouldn’t be that uncommon, I think.
     
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