TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #2

Discussion in '1970's Missing' started by Cubby, Mar 17, 2010.

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  1. Via Marple

    Via Marple Here to learn how devious minds work

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    But..... If she had planned to leave, why took 2 younger girls to shopping first? Those 2 had no intention to leave.
     
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  2. Everything is possible. That's the opposite of what I think happened. The exact opposite situation in their relationship.
     
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  3. Parksestx

    Parksestx Well-Known Member

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    I wanna drive down & watch the vehicle recoveries, but I think FW_Cat is probably correct...It's gonna take longer than people think. I'm curious what model car it is that's suspected of being down there.
     
  4. LadyW

    LadyW Member

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    If...there is any upholstery or carpeting whatsoever brought up from the dive, and they do contain trace elements of human remains, current forensic techniques can detect them even 40 years later.
     
  5. LadyW

    LadyW Member

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    I believe the letter refers to where the car is parked in this specific instance. Unless we are dealing with nonlinear time, IMO I don't see how the letter could have been written a time "before."
     
  6. TGwebs

    TGwebs Well-Known Member

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    Rusty posted this yesterday on the FB page. Warning, it's really difficult to see how distraught the Wilsons are. I think this is an important video for those of us who have never seen the letter.

    The video is much better than the majority than the other image we've seen as far as scale. I pressed pause and scrutinized it and encourage all to do the same. At first I couldn't see the crease, which is immediately visible in the photo, but I finally saw the faint outline.

    I feel like based on the location of the crease/fold and the size of the envelope, it would have fit, but just barely. And the top of the letter is slightly crimped or curled, which you would expect to happen if it was placed in an envelope that was the same size or a bit smaller than the letter, once folded. It would be tight, but I'm pretty sure the letter was in there.

    Also, seeing the envelope on the video I'm quite certain it wasn't from a Christmas card, at least not from a traditional one. It's a normal, letter sized envelope.
     
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  7. Via Marple

    Via Marple Here to learn how devious minds work

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    Just wondering - Had any measurement been made of the letter and envelope?
     
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  8. TGwebs

    TGwebs Well-Known Member

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    Via Marple, I thought I answered this a couple days ago - I must have forgot to post the reply. I assume at the very least it was measured when it was catalogued for evidence.
     
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  9. Via Marple

    Via Marple Here to learn how devious minds work

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    Thanks. I thought I did a search of that on the thread, couldn't find it. I am sure LE has all details on file. But are the measurements disclosed? Then we don't have to guess any more.
     
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  10. TGwebs

    TGwebs Well-Known Member

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    No. All LE has said publicly about the letter is that they couldn't determine whose handwriting it was and that the post office verified it was a valid post mark, sent from FW.
     
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  11. Via Marple

    Via Marple Here to learn how devious minds work

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    Sorry for being a pain, but I like to be precise. So I went to the video again, screen dumped the letter/envelope image, and did some measurements myself.

    The envelope does look like a 'normal' one based on the proportions, not a card envelope.
    US Envelope Sizes Including Commercial, Announcement & Catalog Sizes

    I make the assumption that it is a size 7 width 3.75", as that is a close fit in proportion.

    Based on the envelope width, the letter size is about 7 3/4 by 4 5/8", perhaps a bit wider because it looks curled.

    7 3/4 ÷ 2 = 3 7/8, which is 1/8" longer than the envelope width.

    It is then up to interpretation, whether it can still fit into the envelope being about 1/8" wider with one crease!

    Please let me know if measurements were different in 70's, I can fine tune it.
     

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  12. Dash

    Dash Well-Known Member

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    The letter may have been a forced writing. The "Catch It" phrase a clue. "Houston" a ? Did the "Sam" the DJ have tarrant county connections?
     
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  13. TGwebs

    TGwebs Well-Known Member

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    Impressive work, Via Marple I just looked up number 7 envelopes and I believe you're correct about the size. Assuming you're right about the letter size too, than the letter was indeed a hair larger than the envelope. Since the end of the letter is curled, this suggests that could have placed inside a tight envelope at one point.
    I have personally stuffed cards and letters into envelopes that were a bit too small. It isn't hard to do.
     
  14. TGwebs

    TGwebs Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Dash, "catch it" was apparently a common phrase in the area around that time. When Rachel's sister Deb posted here in the first thread she said the two of them used it growing up.

    The DJ did live in Houston. Some of the locals posted a while back on the FB page that the police confirmed he was working that night. I have no way of verifying that, but I don't know it's relevant. I can think of zero reason to suspect he was involved.

    Personally, I don't believe the fact that the letter said Houston meant anything since I don't believe the girls ran away. The letter writer (or dictator) said Houston, but they might as well have said Mars, because the girls definitely weren't headed there to get a away for a few days. Of course, this is just my own opinion.
     
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  15. Dash

    Dash Well-Known Member

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  16. Dash

    Dash Well-Known Member

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    I agree they never thought of running away. First of all they would not have had money enough along with the Promise ring and Puppy love. The youngest would never want to miss Christmas. If forced to write note anything she could do to send signals would be the thing to do.
    The M D Anderson stay may have been something that only a family member might catch a hint.
    The little boy being picked up a day early seems aranged strangely. Just trying to put pieces together knowing full well "Better than I" who have been at it much longer.
    Where was TT's shop located? Anyone know?
     
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  17. TGwebs

    TGwebs Well-Known Member

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    Dash, I don't think Shawn being picked up early has been confirmed. He has said that on the FB page, but you have to remember he was two and unlikely to be able to remember on his own if he was picked up early or not and also which parent he was supposed to be with that weekend. Two year olds don't make the most reliable witnesses in my opinion. That being said, I'm not for a moment suggesting he was lying. I don't believe that. But he was likely repeating something he's been told. We all know how that's gone in this case in regards to other things.

    Even if he was picked up early, its interesting, but ultimately not relevant in my opinion, unless someone thinks this was premeditated. In the case of the suspect who could have arranged an early pick up for Shawn I don't think anybody, even his harshest, most suspicious, critics think it was premediated. It just wouldn't make sense. And if it was a different suspect, then the pick up is irrelevant. Just another thing that did or didn't happen that day. It's easy to get caught up in details that don't matter in this case.

    I'm confused by what you mean by the MD Anderson stay? Just that Cotton had treatments in Houston and you're trying to find another Houston connection? Again, I don't think the word Houston is relevant. No one can say whether or not Rachel wrote the letter, but if she did, I think everyone agrees it was under duress.

    The important thing in my opinion is that regardless of who wrote the letter, the girls didn't leave by choice. Even the police concede that at this point. The letter was either a diversion or a prank so the word Houston is irrelevant in my opinion. Maybe someone else disagrees and thinks that would be a fruitful path to pursue.

    As far as TT's shop I'm pretty sure FW Cat has discussed that. If she doesn't pop in and answer you could probably find it reading through her posts.
     
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  18. Parksestx

    Parksestx Well-Known Member

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    One of the vehicles in the lake has been identified as a ‘63 Chevy Impala.
     
  19. TGwebs

    TGwebs Well-Known Member

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    That's interesting. Do you know if that's the car they're looking for?
     
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  20. Parksestx

    Parksestx Well-Known Member

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    No idea. I was hoping someone here might know.
     
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