TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[jetsfanjohn]

Thinking about Det. Boetcher's comments back in 2001, a few things stick out to me:
1. DNA- they have it, and have possibly retested it, or planned to (as I interpret it)
2. Who was with the girls- seen with one, but likely more than one involved. This one's a toughy (for me), because I interpret it as someone they know and/or trust being used as a "decoy", to lure them to another location (and to someone else), and I'm stuck.
PS, the "decoy" may or may not know they're being used as such.

The issue I have with someone they knew luring them from the Mall (assuming in this instance that the person(s) doing the luring are not TT/DA) is what was so important about Dec. 23rd 1974 that the girls had to be made disappear on that day ??

Luring three girls into a car on one of the busiest shopping days of the year seems like an act of urgency/desperation. A situation that just can't wait.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Generally, Christmas is a time for family gatherings. Would CA's household have visited with relatives somewhere over Christmas? Or had some to their house?

 

[beubeubeu]

Anybody know where RA was on the 23rd. In one interview he said he was being dragged by his Mom to ALL the stores. I've heard RA do a lot of talking BUT not about where he was on that day. After ALL he was 11 years old. I have a good memory of things when I was 11. I'm just wondering if he was with his Mom or Dad or was stashed away somewhere else out of the way.

I was wandering about in the past and he's the reason why I suspect that whole family may have an issue with being little off (which is completely explainable by living for years with an abusive nutcase - and I'm not saying that CA was one, cause obviously I don't know, im just saying that if he was, then I absolutely see how FA could end up the way she seems to be... as well as her kids, especially DA, but RA as well - cause even while CA was gone, there was still FA & DA around, as he was growing up + missing Rachel + lack of therapy or any mental health support).
Cause he said BOTH.
Once he remembered helping his mom with searching phone book for numbers while she was frantically calling all the stores and asking for girls... once he remembered being dragged through the mall by his mom who was asking clerks about the girls in person.
Theoretically it's possible to do both, the same evening but...
He was also the source of misinformation. With media it absolutely could happen on the reporters/journalists side. But what about the missingtrio website (now down)? Still accessible through waybackmachine. Story there is full of wrong facts, 100% wrong facts. Not a serious stuff (like something he could learn from LE or case files and what could damage the investigation if leaked) but basics like tale about car being full of gifts girls got from the mall. Why? What for?
He got sucked into really bizarre theories, and went pretty far with it. Understandable cause of the trauma and decades of being consumed by his sister's disappearance, but he seems to be all over the place with his stories in pretty smilar way his mother and sister were/are.

 

[beubeubeu]

But it is not that simple.
What if the letter really was never in the envelope? No one saw the letter inside it except for one person claiming it was.

There were few people in that house in the morning. It wasn't just TT and DA. Some friends or neighbors were at home and outside home.
According to what I've read about that morning everybody seems to agree that it happened in the house on Minot and that there was a note.

Note that was either:
A) seen by someone prior to the morning of 24th, without the mention of car and Sears:
a1) on the fridge,
a2) retrieved from the laundry basket,
a3) pinned to the door of the house (pinned how? there is no hole in it)
B) retrieved from the post box on the morning of 24th by:
b1) TT, with no whitnesses,
b2) TT, with unnamed whitnesses,
b3) DA, with no whitnesses,
b4) DA and TT with no whitnesses,
b5) DA and TT with unnamed whitnesses,
C) then delivered:
c1) straight to the A's home,
c2) to the A's home after making a call and being instructed to take it there,
D) by:
d1) DA
d2) DA and TT
E) without envelope, which was delivered:
e1) straight away by DA who drove back to Minot and showed up back fast with the envelope,
e2) fast, by DA but after a call to TT to notify him that envelope is requested by police,
e3) not so fast, by DA but while detective was still at A's,
e4) not fast at all, at the time she showed up with the envelope hours passed, cop left and she later delivered it to the police station,
e5) by DA and TT in a hurry, to the A's house,
e6) by DA and TT with significant delay, to the A's house,
e7) by TT who "couldn't find it" hours later, to the police station,
e8) by TT who was searching for the envelope till noon of 26th
F) said envelope was addressed:
f1) in pencil,
f2) in pen, actually the letter was in pencil,
f3) in pen, but "Rachel" in upper left corner was added in pencil
G) as Rachel's family saw the note:
g1) TT got suspicious about it's genuinity straight away, cause of "Rachee",
g2) FA said it's not Rachel's handwriting straight away,
g3) FA said that and then TT joined in doubt,
g4) TT expressed doubt and then FA joined in doubt,
g5) were immediately confident that's Rachel's handwriting and she authored it,
g6) but maybe someone forced her to write it,
g7) weeks later noticed that it doesn't look like Rachel's handwriting at all,
H) said note:
h1) didn't fit the envelope,
h2) fitted the envelope,

Oh, I forgot to include that letter was either the only one piece of mail that arrived on that day, or received along with some christmas cards.
And so on... and on... and on... with literally every tiny detail in this.

 

[Brightchaser47]

What if Cotton told FA he was going to the Mall to stand guard over the car like FA said he did and he went somewhere else and not the Mall. Then FA's story would be true as to how she knew it and Cotton would of had ALL night to do whatever. After all RA didn't know his Dad wasn't at the Mall till a few years ago. Does anybody know how much land CA's older brother had in East Texas in Dec. of 1974?

Was CA's brother local (Ft. Worth area) at that time?

 

[FW_Froggy]

Was CA's brother local (Ft. Worth area) at that time?

No East Texas. In his obituary in 2019 it said he retired in 1993 and he owned Arnold Trucking for over 20 years which would take him back to at least 1973.

 

[T rex]

I think I read here once that VB had moved away to California for a while and then later returned. If this is true does anyone know more about it, when he left and when he came back?

 

[beubeubeu]

Check out the post by TheHiredGun on Thread #2, pg 4, post 64-- see if that helps.

"The post office @ the mall. It was what we referred to as a mini post office. To the best of my recollection, it sat in the middle of the west parking lot of the mall. This was the other mostly unused overflow and desolate parking lot on the other side of that I mentioned in my earlier post. It was apx 1/4 mile and completely on the other side of the mall from where the car was found. To the best of my recollection, it was an unmanned, coin operated stamp kiosk-type set up with a mail slot. It was about the size of one of the old Photomats back in that era. It could have possibly been manned during the day but I just can't remember."

 Doesn't help. No picture or video i found is showing anything that could be suspected to be that mini post office. But those showing that side of the mall are either from early 60s or mid 80s - so possibly it wasn't there yet & anymore and that's why.

Yet... With real, normal post office pretty close I don't see it as likely that someone would get into that packed mall on the evening/night of 23rd to mail Christmas card.
His family lived not in FW and anyone shopping there/visiting should be aware that he's married and write "Mr. & Mrs. Trlica". Yet it's only Thomas A. Trlica.
Maybe it was an official letter mailed from one of the businesses there... But then, if some random person's handwriting accidentally ended up to be incredibly similar to his handwriting then it also doesn't speak as loudly in favor of theory of him authoring the letter IMO.

Why nobody is addressing the fact that there is something written in blue ink on that piece of paper. Isn't that interesting?

 

[T rex]

"The post office @ the mall. It was what we referred to as a mini post office. To the best of my recollection, it sat in the middle of the west parking lot of the mall. This was the other mostly unused overflow and desolate parking lot on the other side of that I mentioned in my earlier post. It was apx 1/4 mile and completely on the other side of the mall from where the car was found. To the best of my recollection, it was an unmanned, coin operated stamp kiosk-type set up with a mail slot. It was about the size of one of the old Photomats back in that era. It could have possibly been manned during the day but I just can't remember."

 Doesn't help. No picture or video i found is showing anything that could be suspected to be that mini post office. But those showing that side of the mall are either from early 60s or mid 80s - so possibly it wasn't there yet & anymore and that's why.

Yet... With real, normal post office pretty close I don't see it as likely that someone would get into that packed mall on the evening/night of 23rd to mail Christmas card.
His family lived not in FW and anyone shopping there/visiting should be aware that he's married and write "Mr. & Mrs. Trlica". Yet it's only Thomas A. Trlica.
Maybe it was an official letter mailed from one of the businesses there... But then, if some random person's handwriting accidentally ended up to be incredibly similar to his handwriting then it also doesn't speak as loudly in favor of theory of him authoring the letter IMO.

Why nobody is addressing the fact that there is something written in blue ink on that piece of paper. Isn't that interesting?

I believe that writting is on the plastic and continues on but is not easily seen against the dark backdrop of the table.

 

[Ozoner]

The issue I have with someone they knew luring them from the Mall (assuming in this instance that the person(s) doing the luring are not TT/DA) is what was so important about Dec. 23rd 1974 that the girls had to be made disappear on that day ??

Luring three girls into a car on one of the busiest shopping days of the year seems like an act of urgency/desperation. A situation that just can't wait.

If someone that they knew took them from the mall, then it was probably impulsive, i.e., the person learned something—that they were in the company of another male, for instance—and the perpetrator's rage would not wait.

On such a busy day, the mall would have been a target-rich environment for a predator. On the off chance that this was a stranger abduction (which I personally don't believe), then it was the perfect day to pull off an abduction.

I lean heavily towards the car having been staged, however.

 

[Chypre]

Trusted. Someone they trusted.
Connection between trust and friends/family members is not what they stated.

And just by sheer curiosity. I have two questions.

1. Do you all also tend to assume that TT and DA's relationship and brief engagement happening between his first wife and Rachel?

Cause only after repeating few times in my ramblings that Renee's dad's story about Renee asking him if she could date VB does not mean or even imply that she expressed interest in him WHILE dating TM (cause he sounded proud when he mentioned that, as telling a story about his daughter trusting him and respecting his opinions so much - not like he was bragging that yeah, his 14yo missing daughter wanted to have multiple boyfriends at the time) I thought that oh wait, maybe RA and TT dated BEFORE his first marriage!
So not just months earlier, but years earlier, possibly while he was like 16-17 and she was 14-15. Why I never thought about that being a possibility? Cause then it would make sense that it wasn't serious or affecting them much in December 1974, unlike that kinda self-implied series of family engagements happening in span of two months. Additionally that could mean that A's knew TT long before he started dating Rachel.

2. Do you also tend to picture mall guards as young guys, some teens, maybe more TT's age, just because of that maybe-being-there-maybe-not hint that record store clerk was close in age with Rachel?

Cause I did. And then there was like OH GOD, but security guards are often older guys, like retired or kicked out the job ex-cops and all sorts of weirdos with power complex - could it be so different then (with younger guys, maybe friends or acquaintances of DA/TT/Rachel/Renee) or NOT.

Cause if not, then WHOOOA!
What about those two security guards, one who reported that odd sighting of another security guard with three girls in his car seen at 11:30 PM, so at the time when even cops showed up and families were looking for three missing girls?

Who were those girls, was that ever established?
What any young girls were doing there in the middle of the night, after mall was already closed?
How families and cops were able to miss those three girls walking to that car or being in the car while looking for three missing girls?
If there were no girls why would he came up with such a bizarre story? (cause adding context to that it becomes pretty freaking bizarre - even considering how big these parking lots were).
Or is that a typo and he saw them in security guard's car not at 11:30 PM but at the 1:30 PM but someone messed up while sharing this info with the public on while doing notes (as they did with Rachel's name and times of filing the missing persons reports).

1. The way I read your first question/statement is that you have found it weird that "it wasn't serious or affecting them that much in December 1974" considering the drama of TT'S love life with both sisters in a short period of time. And that if TT was involved with Rachel before his first marriage, by December 1974 Rachel and DA are cool with it.

Did I get that right?

It's possible they knew each other or dated before. I just don't think anything was cool in December of 1974. Do you mean the way DA described it or think it's minimized? I thought the fight at the bowling alley was supposed to be about their triangle but can't remember now.

2. I completely picture men in their mid twenties and up. I picture the one or two older guys that end up hanging with teens, buying the beer, renting the hotel room for a party, etc. Maybe there was a really rotten one in the bunch.

 

[Chypre]

Yes this 2001 article says someone they trusted. It also talks about 20 new witnesses and DNA.

Mar 30, 2001, page 34 - Fort Worth Star-Telegram at Newspapers.com - Newspapers.com

View the digital scanned newspaper from Fort Worth Star-Telegram dated Mar 30, 2001, page 34.

www.newspapers.com

Thank you!

 

[Brightchaser47]

There's a post by  Deige (thread 1, pg 15, post 287) that has some interesting info (including where the mail kiosk was) about TT and Rachel.

 

[FW_Froggy]

Love Trumps All (verified family member) said DA took TT to Bowling. On DA's 40 questions she answered from DJ. On question #21 DA said TT did not come to Minot before bowling and DA said she did not see TT till after he got through bowling.

 

[Pricklykitty]

I think I read here once that VB had moved away to California for a while and then later returned. If this is true does anyone know more about it, when he left and when he came back?

I have seen TM's account of this but have no way of knowing if it is true. He says that VB just went to live in California with his dad for a bit, but then asked TM for bus fare back to FW, and lived with TM for a bit in 1975.
TM is VB's biggest defender. Even when he acknowledges VB asked him to say they were drinking whiskey together the day the trio vanished when it wasn't true, TM says it was just a mistake and carries on with vehement defence of VB.

Reading the way TM defends VB has led me to form the opinion that VB didn't harm the girls in any way, but that he was part of the story.

 

[tilomagnet]

If someone that they knew took them from the mall, then it was probably impulsive, i.e., the person learned something—that they were in the company of another male, for instance—and the perpetrator's rage would not wait.

I can buy into the rage killing because of CJGs presence or fling with RT only if the girls returned to Minot on their own steam and the killer lay in wait for RT there and the others were silenced because they witnessed it. A rage / spur of the moment type murder is way less likely if the killer took them from the mall first realising he needs to kill Renee and Julie also to be able to punish RT for making out with other guys

 

[beubeubeu]

I believe that writting is on the plastic and continues on but is not easily seen against the dark backdrop of the table.

No, no. Not that KB something that looks like a gel pen. These tiny numbers near the fold, visible only on high resolution photo.

 

[Valiant]

I think the envelope is a complete red herring!and has ZERO ago do with the note. There are only three practical sources for the envelope if it really mailed the note.
1) RT brought it from home. A simple request by the police at the time to see blank envelopes in the house would confirm if it matched. This probably wasn’t done.
2) RT got an envelope at the Post Office. I’d rule this out. Post Office envelopes were pre stamped, not using a regular postage stamp.
3) RT bought envelopes. You’d expect the remaining envelopes would be in the car.

 

[JohnGalt78]

I have seen TM's account of this but have no way of knowing if it is true. He says that VB just went to live in California with his dad for a bit, but then asked TM for bus fare back to FW, and lived with TM for a bit in 1975.
TM is VB's biggest defender. Even when he acknowledges VB asked him to say they were drinking whiskey together the day the trio vanished when it wasn't true, TM says it was just a mistake and carries on with vehement defence of VB.

Reading the way TM defends VB has led me to form the opinion that VB didn't harm the girls in any way, but that he was part of the story.

I read TM’s remarks about this as well and agree with your opinion. As well as that, I got the impression VB might have been scared for his own life at one point.

 

[beubeubeu]

I think the envelope is a complete red herring!and has ZERO ago do with the note. There are only three practical sources for the envelope if it really mailed the note.
1) RT brought it from home. A simple request by the police at the time to see blank envelopes in the house would confirm if it matched. This probably wasn’t done.
2) RT got an envelope at the Post Office. I’d rule this out. Post Office envelopes were pre stamped, not using a regular postage stamp.
3) RT bought envelopes. You’d expect the remaining envelopes would be in the car.

Well, whole department with greeting cards and such right next to the record department at Murphy's...
It was said (by DA at least that neither paper or envelope matched anything that was at home) but since LE assumed that 9 yo ran away it doesn't seem like they bothered visiting any of the three homes that girls lived at the time.
Theoretically paper and envelope could come from Renee's or Renee's grandma house but at this point rarely anyone is considering that girls had anything to do with the note.

Before that article was published few years ago the only visuals on the letter were video, xero copy shot and some very poor quality pic. It was clearly stated multiple times that there is nothing more in the note, no marks, no nothing... Yet in 2020 there are some tiny numbers visible on the left bottom, near folding. What is that? Was it there all the time or was this piece of evidence handled so poorly that someone used it as writing paper sometime later?