TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[beubeubeu]

And in the article he sounds so creepy!

Maybe it's my sexism speaking but I can't imagine teenage girls being more into stealing than teenage boys... unless teenage boys were hanging out somewhere else and mall was more of a "girly" place to hang out. I can imagine them being way easier to catch.
What the hell does that mean:
"And most who get caught could easily have paid for what they stole" he said. "Some teen-age girls when apprehended have a roll of bills on them that someties total $80"

80$ in 1974 is more than 500$ in today's money. Sounds like more than weekly salary for most people and some 13+ yo girls were having that much money on them?
Seriously?
Some teenage girls were just walking around Seminary South in 1974 HAVING LIKE FIVE OR SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS IN TODAYS MONEY ON THEM?!

And I thought I couldn't possibly get more suspicious about this guy.
So focused on hunting for rich, spoiled teenage girls with pockets full of money.

Is this just me or the other two security chiefs (Dyson and Tyree) mentioned in the article are really reasonably speaking and sounding normally while he doesn't?

 

[beubeubeu]

That "massive uproar" from certain folks would be kinda stupid. I'd think that would only confirm LE's suspicions. It would be smarter to remain indifferent and downplay the situation. After all, "LE doesn't have anything, or they'd have made an arrest by now"...

Not sure what Pricklykitty meant but I assume you're thinking about those possibly involved.
LE, at least now is often expected to think also about those not involved.
Massive uproar could mean taking whatever weapon there is at easy grab and executing the suspect in form of a lynch, attacking his/her family members and more. Especially in cases like this where there is not much of hope for any arrest ever and lots of random people heavily invested in the case.

 

[beubeubeu]

Exactly. I've always struggled with the narrative he was too ill to do anything. Now its been accepted by certain person that CA wasn't at SS that night, the reasoning seems to be he was too sick and dying. Well I think the video shows that wasn't the case.

There is also that people aspect.
Sometimes with some people being possible suspects, sometimes possibly lying cause hiding some knowledge about the case - but almost always, in complicated situations like this (before the disappearance):
tense household, likely abusive, struggling business, debt, father fighting cancer, one teenage daughter doing whatever she could to stay away from home, other teenage daughter married to a divorced guy, much younger brother and mother who has to deal with some incredible stress caused by multiple factors
there will be lies, secrets and untold-truths.
Just within the A family there were multiple people who not only could, but likely WERE absolutely confident in their version of facts being the most accurate.

Great thing was pointed out recently - that possibly FA wasn't lying while she was telling media about her husband guarding the car at the parking lot. We're all pretty sure that he wasn't. But maybe she was sure that he did? Maybe even hearing from Renee's dad that he was there with his friend didn't cause her any doubt in her husbands story cause she just had full confidence in this being a fact and just figured that if they weren't there together then CA must be guarding the car from another location.

Story about CA having blackouts comes from DA and as far as I recall only from her.
May be a lie... or may be what she knew and was sure of at the time.
Maybe she whitnessed her father fainting sometime before when he was actually taking aggressive chemo and was unable to drive and somehow didn't get the update, never learned that later he got better and at the time was able to drive.
Or maybe CA was set hard on pretending in front of TT that he's strong and invincible, while he was lying to FA and his daughters that he's just doing the short drive to Minot, then TT is taking the wheel - while in reality he was driving the whole time. That could leave DA completely convinced that it'd be ridiculous that he was giving TT rides.
Hell knows what kind of dynamic they had between them, and surely everything points out at it being very complicated.
It should get cleared out at some point, and it would... if they were talking to each other openly. But were they? I'd highely doubt that.

 

[Brightchaser47]

The idea of a "love triangle" involving TT, DA, and Rachel has been debated on here (another DJ, P.I. invention, I feel), but what about one involving TT, Rachel, and ST? Could ST have been jealous of Rachel? After all, TT dated DA (before the ink was dry on the divorce papers), but married a young, spunky Rachel, who was good with Shawn.
What if, rather than seeing the girls at Minot at around 12:30pm, she "ran into them" at the Mall (like maybe Murphy's)? If she had her son with her, I can see the girls doing the photo booth with him. Also, I wonder if she knew CJG, by any chance? Would she have recognized him with the girls? I'm not sure where I'm headed with this line of thinking, exactly...but I do believe we should take a serious look at ST. We've disected everyone else...

 

[Valiant]

Maybe their business was doing so poorly cause there was no one to offer service to customers?

We don’t really know why the business was failing. We do know there were financial problems because they weren’t paying their taxes. But we don’t know that there was a lack of customers. For all we know, it could have been a steady stream of customers but poor financial management.

 

[Pricklykitty]

The idea of a "love triangle" involving TT, DA, and Rachel has been debated on here (another DJ, P.I. invention, I feel), but what about one involving TT, Rachel, and ST? Could ST have been jealous of Rachel? After all, TT dated DA (before the ink was dry on the divorce papers), but married a young, spunky Rachel, who was good with Shawn.
What if, rather than seeing the girls at Minot at around 12:30pm, she "ran into them" at the Mall (like maybe Murphy's)? If she had her son with her, I can see the girls doing the photo booth with him. Also, I wonder if she knew CJG, by any chance? Would she have recognized him with the girls? I'm not sure where I'm headed with this line of thinking, exactly...but I do believe we should take a serious look at ST. We've disected everyone else...

Looking into ST it struck me that she is still going by the T surname 50 years later, and having been married to others,she still uses T. Even in a family obituary she is listed as ' ST and her husband H***', which just struck me as strange not using her current husbands name ina formal announcement. No grounds for accusing her of anything, just a bit odd. Maybe she just likes the name. I think if anything it shows that being a T doesn't have any bad or negative connotations for her.

As far as her being involved in the girls disappearance, it certainly can't just be ruled out. However if she were involved I'd say she definitely would have needed and had help. Especially if she had a 2 year old in tow.

If ST had seen the girls at the mall she could have just said this though. Lol even writing this I'm thinking to myself ' yeah, but no one seems to just tell the truth when it comes to that day'.

 

[Brightchaser47]

We don’t really know why the business was failing. We do know there were financial problems because they weren’t paying their taxes. But we don’t know that there was a lack of customers. For all we know, it could have been a steady stream of customers but poor financial management.

That could very well be. Being a good race car driver doesn't make you a good business man...
CA's been criticized for "shady dealings" (possibly more of DJ's work?). I thought I'd read that FA handled the books for the business. Surely, she'd keep better track than that (unless neither of them could manage money)? She strikes me as someone who puts effort into "appearances". Someone correct me, if I'm way off.

 

[Valiant]

That could very well be. Being a good race car driver doesn't make you a good business man...
CA's been criticized for "shady dealings" (possibly more of DJ's work?). I thought I'd read that FA handled the books for the business. Surely, she'd keep better track than that (unless neither of them could manage money)? She strikes me as someone who puts effort into "appearances". Someone correct me, if I'm way off.

What a lot of businesses owners don’t realize right away is you probably need to set aside 1/3 to 1/2 of income for tax liabilities, from payroll taxes, to income taxes, to self-employment taxes. It’s mainly a service industry, so probably sales tax is not a big deal. Then if you might happen to get caught cheating (understating income/overstating expenses), things get worse. We’ve got no idea how well the books were kept, but the tax issues seem to be well noted.

 

[FW_Froggy]

If you google Shady businesses in the 70's a Transmission shop will be at the top of the list. One of the shadiest businesses you can get into. In another room we did a poll if any one could find one customer of Arnold's Transmission and it came up Zero. Actually we have no idea what that business was being used for in Dec. of 1974. As for ST still using the T name that is very common for women to keep the same name as their children.

 

[Brightchaser47]

If you google Shady businesses in the 70's a Transmission shop will be at the top of the list. One of the shadiest businesses you can get into. In another room we did a poll if any one could find one customer of Arnold's Transmission and it came up Zero. Actually we have no idea what that business was being used for in Dec. of 1974.

Whaaat??

 

[T rex]

And in the article he sounds so creepy!

Maybe it's my sexism speaking but I can't imagine teenage girls being more into stealing than teenage boys... unless teenage boys were hanging out somewhere else and mall was more of a "girly" place to hang out. I can imagine them being way easier to catch.
What the hell does that mean:
"And most who get caught could easily have paid for what they stole" he said. "Some teen-age girls when apprehended have a roll of bills on them that someties total $80"

80$ in 1974 is more than 500$ in today's money.
Seriously?
Some teenage girls were just walking around Seminary South in 1974 HAVING LIKE FIVE OR SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS IN TODAYS MONEY ON THEM?!

And I thought I couldn't possibly get more suspicious about this guy.
So focused on hunting for rich, spoiled teenage girls with pockets full of money.

Is this just me or the other two security chiefs (Dyson and Tyree) mentioned in the article are really reasonably speaking and sounding normally while he doesn't?

I agree about Hutchins but I'm not all that sure about Dyson either.
And it seems like Buddies Supermarket had somewhat of a violent history.

The account of the elderly woman that was never identified seeing a yellow truck with lights prompted me to post this photo. It's a Texas DOT truck in 1974.
I found it in the gallery on one of their websites.

Connecting Texans To What Matters Most: Our History

www.dot.state.tx.us

 

[beubeubeu]

I agree about Hutchins but I'm not all that sure about Dyson either.
And it seems like Buddies Supermarket had somewhat of a violent history.

The account of the elderly woman that was never identified seeing a yellow truck with lights prompted me to post this photo. It's a Texas DOT truck in 1974.
I found it in the gallery on one of their websites.

Connecting Texans To What Matters Most: Our History

www.dot.state.tx.us

View attachment 409511

Well, the post that I spend last hour on typing disappeared, and I currently have no mental strenght to try recreate the same exact thing once again.
I hate this website.

 

[beubeubeu]

The idea of a "love triangle" involving TT, DA, and Rachel has been debated on here (another DJ, P.I. invention, I feel), but what about one involving TT, Rachel, and ST? Could ST have been jealous of Rachel? After all, TT dated DA (before the ink was dry on the divorce papers), but married a young, spunky Rachel, who was good with Shawn.
What if, rather than seeing the girls at Minot at around 12:30pm, she "ran into them" at the Mall (like maybe Murphy's)? If she had her son with her, I can see the girls doing the photo booth with him. Also, I wonder if she knew CJG, by any chance? Would she have recognized him with the girls? I'm not sure where I'm headed with this line of thinking, exactly...but I do believe we should take a serious look at ST. We've disected everyone else...

I'm not into love triangles.
It was interesting to me that ST's middle name is "Renee" and I briefly considered it as possible reason with mistyping "Rachel", but it's not really offering anything less or more consistent than most other theoretical scenarios.

Oh, I had one thing I wondered about in the past but forgot to ask.
If teenager was missing school, cause sick or with some other reason absent - what was the drill to make it "cool" with the school?
Cause back in my days, where I lived whenever teenager older than 11 was not from the very caring, loving home and was missing some school days or hours - they were either forging "excuse" letter from their parents or asking a friend to do so (even with genuine sickness, parents often weren't willing to offer any help). So we were writing notes like:
"Please excuse the absence of my son John Smith at school between 10 and 15 of March this year. He got flu and had to stay home.
Mother, Jane Smith"
Was that a thing also in the 70's Fort Worth or not?

What I'm pointing at that with is: how likely it is that TT, DA, ST... and other kids had some prior experience in writing fake notes?

 

[beubeubeu]

We don’t really know why the business was failing. We do know there were financial problems because they weren’t paying their taxes. But we don’t know that there was a lack of customers. For all we know, it could have been a steady stream of customers but poor financial management.

Well, we know that ad said they're open till 6:00 PM and nobody seem to be making a big deal out of the fact that it got closed up earlier.
We know that nobody mentions coworkers, clients... nothing like that.
Have you ever saw or heard anyone, anywhere mentioning how they were Arnold's Transmission Shop clients? I didn't. People are sharing their memories about living 10 minutes from one of the girls, not knowing them but forwarding as much as they could possibly recall about the mall, stores, teenagers, Army Navy... something.
Not one person, credible or not came up with something like "oh yeah, CA was fixing my father's car, he was very fond of his work", no ex workers, no friends of ex workers, no neighbours of ex workers, nobody hearing from someone who knew someone who was trying to get a job there.

You're right that we don't know if there was a lack of customers... but we know that when someone is good, or even reasonable (or even bad, but has customers) in fixing cars, then mentioning their name (or the business name) locally brings all sorts of stories about those repairs being done, even decades ago. We don't have it here.

+ we probably also know that A's home and workshop burned in '69. At least Rusty said so. May be the source of their financial struggle also. But not so long after they were back and had two workshops so I don't know how to look at it.

 

[beubeubeu]

Looking into ST it struck me that she is still going by the T surname 50 years later, and having been married to others,she still uses T. Even in a family obituary she is listed as ' ST and her husband H***', which just struck me as strange not using her current husbands name ina formal announcement. No grounds for accusing her of anything, just a bit odd. Maybe she just likes the name. I think if anything it shows that being a T doesn't have any bad or negative connotations for her.

As far as her being involved in the girls disappearance, it certainly can't just be ruled out. However if she were involved I'd say she definitely would have needed and had help. Especially if she had a 2 year old in tow.

If ST had seen the girls at the mall she could have just said this though. Lol even writing this I'm thinking to myself ' yeah, but no one seems to just tell the truth when it comes to that day'.

May be just a matter of convenience. She was so young marrying T that she had basically no other legal documments, maybe apart from drivers licence. Then she basically grew up with that surname, and at the point when she had an excuse to change her surname (ie. new husband) it could be a great inconvenience for her. It's a matter of personal prefference for SAHM if she wants to change it or not, but for working women it's sometimes equal to losing all their reputation (cause for example all their clients know them by this one specific surname, and are recommending them to others... change of that surname can bring significant loss in some jobs).
Maybe she just liked the sound of it, maybe she still liked TT... or maybe she disliked her earlier surname more, or with some reasons had to keep it. T's surname is pretty rare and there are some pros to not having to explain which of 15 Jane Smiths in the neighbourhood you are.

 

[beubeubeu]

If you google Shady businesses in the 70's a Transmission shop will be at the top of the list. One of the shadiest businesses you can get into. In another room we did a poll if any one could find one customer of Arnold's Transmission and it came up Zero. Actually we have no idea what that business was being used for in Dec. of 1974.

THAT exactly.
Looks like not one person from those concerned about the disappearance, discussing things and sharing their memories from the time:
a) was a client of Arnold's Transmission,
b) was aware that someone they knew was a client there,
c) even heard from someone who heard from someone who claimed that they were fixing their car.

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. If not that (possibly) hearsay mention about alleged workers mentioning something to someone about the money, there would be also no mention of those factory trained technicians either.

Few weeks ago Brightchaser wanted to know what I mean by saying that CA's business was shady, and I scrolled and scrolled, and scrolled through WS, yt comments, even blogpost comments trying to find anyone who provides some sort of memory about their workshops... haven't found anything.
Just that FA kept paying CA's business debts till 1985.

 

[beubeubeu]

I agree about Hutchins but I'm not all that sure about Dyson either.
And it seems like Buddies Supermarket had somewhat of a violent history.

The account of the elderly woman that was never identified seeing a yellow truck with lights prompted me to post this photo. It's a Texas DOT truck in 1974.
I found it in the gallery on one of their websites.

Connecting Texans To What Matters Most: Our History

www.dot.state.tx.us

View attachment 409511

But she was mentioning two men - so five people. Five in front seat of a pickup?
I'm not good with cars but I tried to find pickups with two rows of seats.

1968 International Crew Cab Pickup


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6b/e0/d9/6be0d9db34979f7e90b51fe1be354b71.jpg

1973 International 1210 Travelette Crew Cab​

International Harvester 1970 1200D Travelette 4x4


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/86/d8/bf/86d8bf8937f5bea67e9c301390306d8f.jpg

1964 International Travelette Pickup​

 

[Brightchaser47]

THAT exactly.
Looks like not one person from those concerned about the disappearance, discussing things and sharing their memories from the time:
a) was a client of Arnold's Transmission,
b) was aware that someone they knew was a client there,
c) even heard from someone who heard from someone who claimed that they were fixing their car.

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. If not that (possibly) hearsay mention about alleged workers mentioning something to someone about the money, there would be also no mention of those factory trained technicians either.

Few weeks ago Brightchaser wanted to know what I mean by saying that CA's business was shady, and I scrolled and scrolled, and scrolled through WS, yt comments, even blogpost comments trying to find anyone who provides some sort of memory about their workshops... haven't found anything.
Just that FA kept paying CA's business debts till 1985.

How do you pay business debts or owe back taxes on a business that doesn't exist? Something's wrong, here...

 

[beubeubeu]

How do you pay business debts or owe back taxes on a business that doesn't exist? Something's wrong, here...

Debts aren't going away with business and are not gone just cause it got closed or sold.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Debts aren't going away with business and are not gone just cause it got closed or sold.

So were they paying back taxes on the business at Arlington? Or did they owe from the shop in Fort Worth that closed? Or both?