TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

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Brightchaser47

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Post 950 thread 6, posted by ozoner seems to give all the info known about 'melvin'.
TX - TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #6
I'd read that prior to posting my question, but was hoping someone on here now would know more.
If that Melvin story was legitimate, he makes the list of suspects, IMO. He would've been someone Rachel knew (and possibly trusted), and I can definitely see him luring the girls away from the Mall, with "foul play" and "unfortunate circumstances" to follow.
 

jetsfanjohn

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Who or what was the  original source of the "Preacher Melvin" story?
He gets mentioned in the Texas Gone Cold podcast. He is undoubtedly a creep. However, the 'Runaway' Letter and the behaviour of certain family members of one of the girls pretty much rules him out of being involved in the girls disappearance, IMO.
 

Brightchaser47

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He gets mentioned in the Texas Gone Cold podcast. He is undoubtedly a creep. However, the 'Runaway' Letter and the behaviour of certain family members of one of the girls pretty much rules him out of being involved in the girls disappearance, IMO.
The letter could've been written (by TT), regardless of whether he was involved in their disappearance.. But, it is hard to ignore the behavior of the family members through the years...
 

Brightchaser47

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If  TT killed the girls,  why would he "have suspicions" about DA's biker ex (unless to divert suspicion away from himself)?

If EC  was involved (and DA knew or  suspected it), how/why could she still want to look him up (unless she was looking for him, for a different reason) Was her first marriage the one that took place shortly after the girls went missing?
 

beubeubeu

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I'd read that prior to posting my question, but was hoping someone on here now would know more.
If that Melvin story was legitimate, he makes the list of suspects, IMO. He would've been someone Rachel knew (and possibly trusted), and I can definitely see him luring the girls away from the Mall, with "foul play" and "unfortunate circumstances" to follow.
It doesn't seem like anyone ever knew more.
From those who lived long enough to tell the story about Melvin there is not much of a solid info.
Alleged facts provided are limited to:
- guy creeped on Debra and wanted her address and phone number (at the time when she still lived with her parents I tend to assume), she refused,
- guy showed up at A's home to speak with the A's and tried to persuade them to allow Rachel to go for his "babysitting" job offer.

And that's all I can see there.
Cause how in hell the rest of the story back itself up?
- someone called them and spoke with Debra pretending to be a highschooler - that's according to Fran, debra hasn't confirmed that - and it's possible that she never realised that it was the same guy.
But how Fran did it? Maybe they heard that conversation or maybe Debra told them about this strange call from a "highschooler" she didn't knew.
But how do they know it was same guy who creeped on Debra before? She hasn't recognised him and she didn't realised even after the fact that it was him calling.
- Rachel picked up the phone... and how do they know it was same guy? Well. maybe he introduced himself again and on this occasion Rachel told her parents same story about the alleged highschooler. But how, HOW were they able to connect these dots?
So Rachel was at home when this alleged preacher showed up. But what about Debra? Cause if she was, she should be able to recognise the creep right away. And if she wasn't, then how they confirmed that preacher was same person as the creep?

What that 30yo guy was doing at Rachel's highschool that made him able to meet her there?
How did they learned about those meetings and a ring? Who told them - Rachel?
Why would she do that? Did she became scared of him when he pretended to be a preacher (cause it wasn't their idea, just his)? But she wouldn't need them to forbid her seeing him if he creeped her out at that point. Them forbiding her sounds more like she still wanted to do that... but then why would she suddenly told them about it?

Unless there is A LOT more to support Melvin's existence beyond these two occasions: one where he creeped out Debra, one when he showed up as a "preacher" it sounds like a huge stretch that's internally contradicting itself.
More like somebodys attempt at theory what MAY have happened made decades later. Cause if those connections were made close to the time of disappearance what reason parents could have to NOT discuss that thing with Debra, making her aware that she spoke to the guy on the phone and should think hard about every suspicious thing that happened cause it could be related to him?
Okay maybe she forgot... or something.

But how Rachel's schoolmates missed Melvin?
How seemingly everyone missed Melvin before Dan James if it was such a grand scheme with him?
 

Brightchaser47

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It doesn't seem like anyone ever knew more.
From those who lived long enough to tell the story about Melvin there is not much of a solid info.
Alleged facts provided are limited to:
- guy creeped on Debra and wanted her address and phone number (at the time when she still lived with her parents I tend to assume), she refused,
- guy showed up at A's home to speak with the A's and tried to persuade them to allow Rachel to go for his "babysitting" job offer.

And that's all I can see there.
Cause how in hell the rest of the story back itself up?
- someone called them and spoke with Debra pretending to be a highschooler - that's according to Fran, debra hasn't confirmed that - and it's possible that she never realised that it was the same guy.
But how Fran did it? Maybe they heard that conversation or maybe Debra told them about this strange call from a "highschooler" she didn't knew.
But how do they know it was same guy who creeped on Debra before? She hasn't recognised him and she didn't realised even after the fact that it was him calling.
- Rachel picked up the phone... and how do they know it was same guy? Well. maybe he introduced himself again and on this occasion Rachel told her parents same story about the alleged highschooler. But how, HOW were they able to connect these dots?
So Rachel was at home when this alleged preacher showed up. But what about Debra? Cause if she was, she should be able to recognise the creep right away. And if she wasn't, then how they confirmed that preacher was same person as the creep?

What that 30yo guy was doing at Rachel's highschool that made him able to meet her there?
How did they learned about those meetings and a ring? Who told them - Rachel?
Why would she do that? Did she became scared of him when he pretended to be a preacher (cause it wasn't their idea, just his)? But she wouldn't need them to forbid her seeing him if he creeped her out at that point. Them forbiding her sounds more like she still wanted to do that... but then why would she suddenly told them about it?

Unless there is A LOT more to support Melvin's existence beyond these two occasions: one where he creeped out Debra, one when he showed up as a "preacher" it sounds like a huge stretch that's internally contradicting itself.
More like somebodys attempt at theory what MAY have happened made decades later. Cause if those connections were made close to the time of disappearance what reason parents could have to NOT discuss that thing with Debra, making her aware that she spoke to the guy on the phone and should think hard about every suspicious thing that happened cause it could be related to him?
Okay maybe she forgot... or something.

But how Rachel's schoolmates missed Melvin?
How seemingly everyone missed Melvin before Dan James if it was such a grand scheme with him?
Can't argue with any of that...and that puts the "Preacher Melvin" theory to rest.
 

beubeubeu

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Can't argue with any of that...and that puts the "Preacher Melvin" theory to rest.
Not really. It's one thing that those events within "Melvin's" storyline aren't backing itself up. With first (for me) HUGE "waaaait, waaait a minute, but HOW EXACTLY DO YOU (meaning the person who shared the story) or ANYONE knew that guy who creeped out Debra on the road got her family home address and phone number through her licence plates"?

Cause for the road creep there were different, easier and easily available ways to learn her private info.
First
- through stalking. As soon as that first assumption
(that he just met her there on the road for the very first time and allowed her to drive back not following ger) goes away it's pretty reasonable possibility, right?
Why even come up with this weird theory that he got it through licence plates? Doesn't seem like they learned that from Melvin. It wasn't easy at the time, unless "Melvin" was a cop or worked at DMV or something like that.
Second - if he indeed was the same guy who had some sort of relationship with Rachel or was stalking and creeping around her school he wouldn't need to run any licence plates through anything. If their relationship was consensual, then he could easily learn that from Rachel. If it wasn't consensual, he could be stalking Rachel prior to stalking Debra. If he had reason to be at her Highschool, then sure as hell he could get access to her address and her parent's phone number.

The other stuff I stated in earlier post.

This whole "Melvin's" story is told so weird. It doesn't sound like someone really thought it through and shared their best conclusions.
For me it sounds like pretty lazy attempt at connecting some dots, quick brainstorm and here we go: there is a theory to share.
OR to plant some suggestions that aren't supported by facts/information that are suppossed to back (those suggestions) up.
Cause well, first time I read that, I followed and wondered if that "Melvin" guy could be a cop or closely related to a cop who could help him get access to car owner's private info. And of course - why it always looks like Debra is dishonest.

All those things aren't really putting the preacher "Melvin's" theory to rest.
They're opening it up even more. Cause if Debra never saw/identified "Melvin" as the creep we're not ending with one creep. We possibly have two! Even three actually. Or even four.

If those things happened, and nobody actually confirmed that it was the same person, then it's possible that those things were done by different people. So as many as:
- creep who stalked and scared Debra on the road,
- creep who called Arnold's home
and spoke to each girl at least once, pretending to be a highschooler who didn't exist,
- creep who showed up at their door and tried to persuade Rachel's parents to send her to live with him "as a nanny",
- creep/mystery guy who was meeting Rachel at school, gave her a ring and with some reason wasn't openly introduced (or even spoken about?) to anyone.

It's not like we have a story in which guy creeped on Debra, then he called their home and Rachel recognised him as the guy she got a ring from... who later showed up at their door, pretending to be a preacher and scaring the ... out of Debra who recognised him as the road creep, leading both girls to confirm that's all and same guy and causing their parents to stop Rachel from meeting him.
If it would be like that, we could be sure that's all "Melvin".
Otherwise nope.
Unless Dan James actually FOUND "Melvin", spoke to him, got him to admit to all of that and explain how he did it, and "confirmed" that with Fran's notes.

That's awfully lot of creeps but it's also theoretically possible that ring and meeting mystery guy at school was a gossip.
Without assumption that Rachel actually knew him it could be a single creep fishing for victims.
Stalking the girls, calling their house to learn more, figure out how things work at their home, hoping that they could tell a thing or two to a local highschooler... and finally showing up there in hope that he could get "official" permission to take Rachel, or to learn more about the family in this weird way.

Btw. no matter how shady, business is business - great excuse to call someone pretending to be a customer. No way to identify the caller, few people at home. Such a creep could call them many times pretending to be different people to learn more about family habits. No distinctive voice, some time apart, good excuses and likely they wouldn't notice.
 
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T rex

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He was still married then, likely had to do that. And not sure if that divorce was granted. He filled for divorce but wasn't he denied? There was something about changing counties to remarry cause with whatever reason it was impossible to divorce Rachel in Tarrant county but possible to marry another woman in different county.

I think the woman he later married was from Throckmorton so maybe that's why he moved there. This new wife had a sister that was married to the brother of ST.
 

FW_Froggy

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I think the woman he later married was from Throckmorton so maybe that's why he moved there. This new wife had a sister that was married to the brother of ST.
Yes I remember that and that couple lived in the Minot house for awhile after the disappearance (ST's brother and his wife).
 

tilomagnet

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I keep reading about the blow up/fight at the bowling alley (?) a couple days prior to the disappearance. Anyone care to explain what supposedly happened? was this about TT taking up with DA again?
 

beubeubeu

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I think the woman he later married was from Throckmorton so maybe that's why he moved there. This new wife had a sister that was married to the brother of ST.
So once again for my clarity.
TT was first married to ST.
As their marriage was going to an end TT was allowing ST's brother and his wife to live in his backyard.
Then TT divorced ST and married Rachel.
As Rachel disappeared he married teenage sister of ST's brother's wife.
So he married younger sister of his ex brother's wife.
And before he married Rachel, he also tried to marry her older sister.

Sounds awfully like he really tried his luck with every girl he got around.
Yes I remember that and that couple lived in the Minot house for awhile after the disappearance (ST's brother and his wife).
They lived there AFTER the disappearance too?
 

FW_Froggy

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So once again for my clarity.
TT was first married to ST.
As their marriage was going to an end TT was allowing ST's brother and his wife to live in his backyard.
Then TT divorced ST and married Rachel.
As Rachel disappeared he married teenage sister of ST's brother's wife.
So he married younger sister of his ex brother's wife.
And before he married Rachel, he also tried to marry her older sister.

Sounds awfully like he really tried his luck with every girl he got around.

They lived there AFTER the disappearance too?
ST's brother and his wife never lived in the back yard to my knowledge. That was another couple your thinking of that lived in a camper in the back yard. They moved from the yard around Nov. of 1974 if my memory serves me right.
 

beubeubeu

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ST's brother and his wife never lived in the back yard to my knowledge. That was another couple your thinking of that lived in a camper in the back yard. They moved from the yard around Nov. of 1974 if my memory serves me right.
Oh.
So he had one couple living in a camper in the back yard for some time... and brother of his ex and his wife living at home with him/them (him and Rachel)...
Wow. That surely paints a bit of different picture and make the whole thing with DA living there significantly less odd/unusual IMO. I never knew that there were actually at least two other couples living there, not just one. So it means that he helped at least five people while they struggled with housing. And on top of that he sounds more engaged in co-parenting his son that most guys from the time I ever heard of.
Obviously that doesn't mean anything for sure, but to the very least, having all the reasons to get into the habit of having "someone else", apart from teenage wife at home makes it even less likely for me that his house could be a crime scene. No way to rule that out if place wasn't looked at by cops right away, but so unlikely.
 

FW_Froggy

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Oh.
So he had one couple living in a camper in the back yard for some time... and brother of his ex and his wife living at home with him/them (him and Rachel)...
Wow. That surely paints a bit of different picture and make the whole thing with DA living there significantly less odd/unusual IMO. I never knew that there were actually at least two other couples living there, not just one. So it means that he helped at least five people while they struggled with housing. And on top of that he sounds more engaged in co-parenting his son that most guys from the time I ever heard of.
Obviously that doesn't mean anything for sure, but to the very least, having all the reasons to get into the habit of having "someone else", apart from teenage wife at home makes it even less likely for me that his house could be a crime scene. No way to rule that out if place wasn't looked at by cops right away, but so unlikely.
Your still mixed up. ST's brother and his wife didn't live on Minot till after the disappearance.
 

Brightchaser47

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So there was a couple that stayed in the camper, but left  before Dec 23rd, and ST's brother and his wife stayed in the house,  after Dec. 23rd, right? If that's correct, then we're back to DA being home alone (on the 23rd)--  unless
1. James was accurate and SM  was there that day
2. TT  was home from work (quit early, took the day off, etc)
3. ST was there to pick up Shawn, visited with the girls
 

Brightchaser47

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Incidentally, if CA didn't work that day, and TT either didn't work or quit early, would another employee have had keys/ authorization to open/ close the shop?
 

Chypre

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Organized crime involvement is possible. I apologize if this has all been discussed in depth on older threads. Does anyone have knowledge of sites or places to find info on Texas OC during that time period?
 

FW_Froggy

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Organized crime involvement is possible. I apologize if this has all been discussed in depth on older threads. Does anyone have knowledge of sites or places to find info on Texas OC during that time period?
I just googled Texas Organized Crime. Said it was active in Dallas, Houston, and Austin. Bosses around that time were Joseph 'Little Joe' Ianni 1970-1973 and Joseph 'Egyptian Joe' Campisi 1973-1990. Defunct after 1990.
 
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