TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[FW_Froggy]

I don't know but how many pregnancies she had till before that first marriage - two or more?
Cause if she quit that may be cause she wasn't fit enough anymore to do profitable dancing.

You think? I've just heard of one when she was around 16.

 

[beubeubeu]

I'd love to see some collection of simple statistics.
Surely this case looks unusual, but it'd be very interesting to know things like:
- reasons for multiple people going missing at the same time from the urban area - from most to least common,
- bodies not found for decades (but discovered at some point) - implying someone close to the victim, serial killer, OC,
- any minors abducted in the 70's Texas and trafficked that got rescued at some point? how many estimated victims? what characteristics had average victim's of sucha a crime?
- does DA's behaviour stoods out or falls in line with actions of people convicted for their involvement in murder of family member?
- does TT and his actions stood out compared to young men not involved in their young wifes disappearance? does it fit more of those convicted for murder of their spouse?
- any known cases in TX with family members selling young girl into slavery from the time?
- were security guards in the top of the career choice for later convicted rapists and serial killers in the 70's?

And more...
It wouldn't solve anything, but since I'm sharing a lot of my opinions and find other opinions valuable (especially when they're different from mine) it'd be very interesting to know what's statistically most likely here.

When they're claiming that they believe that girls were trafficked (TT, DA, FA...) - is that really as bizarre as it feels, or maybe they saw some data and got convinced that's the most likely scenario here, considering the circumstances?

I don't know, never saw anything like this and don't even know what to look for to check if something like that even exist (and it should, in some sort of scientifical works, but it may not be really possible to find such answers without years of digging through the data).

 

[Brightchaser47]

I'd love to see some collection of simple statistics.
Surely this case looks unusual, but it'd be very interesting to know things like:
- reasons for multiple people going missing at the same time from the urban area - from most to least common,
- bodies not found for decades (but discovered at some point) - implying someone close to the victim, serial killer, OC,
- any minors abducted in the 70's Texas and trafficked that got rescued at some point? how many estimated victims? what characteristics had average victim's of sucha a crime?
- does DA's behaviour stoods out or falls in line with actions of people convicted for their involvement in murder of family member?
- does TT and his actions stood out compared to young men not involved in their young wifes disappearance? does it fit more of those convicted for murder of their spouse?
- any known cases in TX with family members selling young girl into slavery from the time?
- were security guards in the top of the career choice for later convicted rapists and serial killers in the 70's?

And more...
It wouldn't solve anything, but since I'm sharing a lot of my opinions and find other opinions valuable (especially when they're different from mine) it'd be very interesting to know what's statistically most likely here.

When they're claiming that they believe that girls were trafficked (TT, DA, FA...) - is that really as bizarre as it feels, or maybe they saw some data and got convinced that's the most likely scenario here, considering the circumstances?

I don't know, never saw anything like this and don't even know what to look for to check if something like that even exist (and it should, in some sort of scientifical works, but it may not be really possible to find such answers without years of digging through the data).

I'd love to see what this case would've looked like if
1. LE had taken it seriously
2. Private Investigators had never entered the picture

 

[beubeubeu]

You think? I've just heard of one when she was around 16.

She had a daughter as teenager, and there was some stories about her son (?) being falsely (?) suspected of possibly being TT's child, concieved around the time of the disappearance... while RA suspected that CA fathered her daughter (?!).
I thought she had at least one child shortly after she got married but I don't know, I'm lost. If she didn't then it would be yet another bizarre story about her (to make up a child that never existed just to theorise that it may be a proof of her still being involved with TT at the time).

 

[Brightchaser47]

She had a daughter as teenager, and there was some stories about her son (?) being falsely (?) suspected of possibly being TT's child, concieved around the time of the disappearance... while RA suspected that CA fathered her daughter (?!).
I thought she had at least one child shortly after she got married but I don't know, I'm lost. If she didn't then it would be yet another bizarre story about her (to make up a child that never existed just to theorise that it may be a proof of her still being involved with TT at the time).

The incest story (CA) was debunked on an earlier thread. DNA tests were taken to shut RA up, and the test/results were misinterpreted, corrections were made. Even DA called "foul" on that one.

 

[beubeubeu]

The incest story (CA) was debunked on an earlier thread. The upshot was DA agreed to take a DNA test  only to shut her brother up, and the test/results were misinterpreted, corrections were made. Even DA called "foul" on that one.

Well, child not being fathered by CA proves only that child wasn't fathered by CA, not that there was no incest, but I wasn't referring to that.
I was just recalling what I remembered from stories about her pregnancies. Both odd. If both false, then:
1. she would be still in shape to continue her dancing career, if not home with a kid
2. many crazy and fake stories about DA.

Also, I can't miss a chance to express my wonder, as we got back to that - if it wasn't DA who claimed that, then what on Earth could cause RA to suspect that could be a possibility?
And how it'd relate to the disappearance, even if results would say yes, CA was the father and grandfather of the child? What they were trying to prove? So guy fathered one kid with his teenage daughter, then possibly did same thing with the other daughter but forced her to get abortion, then sold her while marrying her to TT, caused her another pregnancy that could easily pass as TT's kid but then decided to murder her to get rid of her, taking two other girls as colatteral damage, possibly with the other daughter and son-in-law's, or brother's and friend's help in this?
I fail to see any consistent theory behind this. Everything I can came up with is like crazy level zillion, messiest than Greek gods lore. If that's an effect of PI's investigations then nothing, absolutely nothing that came from him shouldn't be considered credible.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Given that P.I. James wasn't technically "hired" by any of the families (but "magically" connected with RA), and seemed to "stir the pot" more than anything, is there any possibility he was actually covering for someone we don't know about?

 

[Brightchaser47]

Well, child not being fathered by CA proves only that child wasn't fathered by CA, not that there was no incest, but I wasn't referring to that.
I was just recalling what I remembered from stories about her pregnancies. Both odd. If both false, then:
1. she would be still in shape to continue her dancing career, if not home with a kid
2. many crazy and fake stories about DA.

Also, I can't miss a chance to express my wonder, as we got back to that - if it wasn't DA who claimed that, then what on Earth could cause RA to suspect that could be a possibility?
And how it'd relate to the disappearance, even if results would say yes, CA was the father and grandfather of the child? What they were trying to prove? So guy fathered one kid with his teenage daughter, then possibly did same thing with the other daughter but forced her to get abortion

All I know is it was claimed on previous threads that even DA denies being sexually abused. Abused, yes. But not sexually (not by Dad, anyway).
If you think about it, nearly everything DJ said or wrote about everyone in this case involves sex...

 

[FW_Froggy]

Given that P.I. James wasn't technically "hired" by any of the families (but "magically" connected with RA), and seemed to "stir the pot" more than anything, is there any possibility he was actually covering for someone we don't know about?

I always thought it was interesting that DJ grew up and graduated High School in Marshal Texas where CA and his brothers grew up.

 

[Brightchaser47]

If the girls were killed at Minot, let's assume the following:
1. ST did  not see/talk with the girls at 12:30. They were at A/N store at noon, and made it to the mall, sometime after that. Therefore, if they  were killed at Minot (upon their return from the mall), ST couldn't have seen them there (alive).
2. SM was not at Minot that day. James' source of that story (allegedly) was TT.
3. DA claims to have been there all day, doesn't budge from that story. We have no reason to place her anywhere else, except maybe the Mall.
That brings us right back to DA and TT...

 

[Brightchaser47]

A few items to continue my last post...
1. Why would ST say she saw the girls, talked with them (basically, "they were fine when I left them") at that time, when it's impossible? And it's  crucial to the timeline of events.
2. DA and /or TT (possibly even ST) had to have staged the Olds at the Mall, for this scenario to work. There was no one else.
3. The gift for Shawn was left in the car. Was this an "oopsie" on the part of the parties involved? Or was it done deliberately to support the narrative that the "girls disappeared from the Mall"?
4. It's possible the girls' deaths were made to look "accidental" at first, but something happened, and parties involved realized that story wouldn't wash, so they had to go to something else.

 

[Valiant]

I don't buy the DA set up the kidnapping for organized crime angle. DA would have been a loose end and they'd have taken her too. After all, what's better than three girls? Four girls!
I think the actual answer is much closer to home, I'm just not sure exactly which home or who.

 

[Brightchaser47]

It's been speculated on here that TT beat Rachel with his fists. That doesn't work.
1. He would've had defensive wounds from Rachel (unless she was restrained).
2. He wouldn't have been able to bowl that evening for two hours straight. His hands would've been swollen and bruised.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Slightly off topic, but does FWPD Cold Case Unit have a way to anonymously donate toward lab work and/or field searches? I understand they're having the "Thaw Them Out" event, to increase awareness and support. But with 1,000 cold cases on their hands, I'm sure financial support would be appreciated.

 

[JohnGalt78]

I'd love to see some collection of simple statistics.
Surely this case looks unusual, but it'd be very interesting to know things like:
- reasons for multiple people going missing at the same time from the urban area - from most to least common,
- bodies not found for decades (but discovered at some point) - implying someone close to the victim, serial killer, OC,
- any minors abducted in the 70's Texas and trafficked that got rescued at some point? how many estimated victims? what characteristics had average victim's of sucha a crime?
- does DA's behaviour stoods out or falls in line with actions of people convicted for their involvement in murder of family member?
- does TT and his actions stood out compared to young men not involved in their young wifes disappearance? does it fit more of those convicted for murder of their spouse?
- any known cases in TX with family members selling young girl into slavery from the time?
- were security guards in the top of the career choice for later convicted rapists and serial killers in the 70's?

And more...
It wouldn't solve anything, but since I'm sharing a lot of my opinions and find other opinions valuable (especially when they're different from mine) it'd be very interesting to know what's statistically most likely here.

When they're claiming that they believe that girls were trafficked (TT, DA, FA...) - is that really as bizarre as it feels, or maybe they saw some data and got convinced that's the most likely scenario here, considering the circumstances?

I don't know, never saw anything like this and don't even know what to look for to check if something like that even exist (and it should, in some sort of scientifical works, but it may not be really possible to find such answers without years of digging through the data).

regarding trafficking, I recently talked to an LEO who worked in the FBI task force, SWAT, and other areas of LE and I asked him specifically about trafficking. He said that in all of the cases of trafficking he has seen, the victims are groomed for periods of time and taken in gradually, not snatched. Maybe it was different in the 70’s or if it was trafficking maybe it was someone they knew. The discussion made me think of this case and how the A family leaned in on trafficking. I would love to know what the opinions of the current officers working the case are regarding that.

 

[beubeubeu]

I always thought it was interesting that DJ grew up and graduated High School in Marshal Texas where CA and his brothers grew up.

WHAT?!

 

[beubeubeu]

So DJ coincidentally grew up in a city:
- with population of about 20.000 people,
- 3 hours and 190 miles from FW
- graduated in 1965
- CA was born in 1935?, so DJ was like 10 years younger

Well, maybe not enough to conclude that they likely knew each other prior but that def explains at least a bit to me as to how he managed to has such an influence on RA.

Not sure if I can provide a link to his obituary, but I surely wasn't expecting that this case will surprise me this much after all this time.

After serving in the Marine Corps in Vietnam from 1966-1969, Dan earned his Bachelor of Science degree in Criminal Justice from University of Texas at Arlington and followed his lifelong interest in investigation into a continually evolving 30-year career in private investigation. He worked as an investigator for the Federal Public Defender’s Office, Northern District of Texas and, in later years, as a forensic examiner of digital data, recovery, and analysis.

Wow. Wow. WOW.

 

[FW_Froggy]

So DJ coincidentally grew up in a city:
- with population of about 20.000 people,
- 3 hours and 190 miles from FW
- graduated in 1965
- CA was born in 1935?, so DJ was like 10 years younger

Well, maybe not enough to conclude that they likely knew each other prior but that def explains at least a bit to me as to how he managed to has such an influence on RA.

Not sure if I can provide a link to his obituary, but I surely wasn't expecting that this case will surprise me this much after all this time.


Wow. Wow. WOW.

Yep the guy was anything BUT Dumb. He was one SMART Cookie.

 

[beubeubeu]

Was he even investigating ANY cases that he got from people who hired him independently (so missing people, some cheating spouses and stuff like that), or just did bunch of work for FPDO and this case free of charge?

 

[FW_Froggy]

Was he even investigating ANY cases that he got from people who hired him independently (so missing people, some cheating spouses and stuff like that), or just did bunch of work for FPDO and this case free of charge?

I believe his last 20 years he was mostly a professional witness for the defense attorney's (I'm sure he made good money testifying for the defense).