TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #7

[Brightchaser47]

There's probably more than one reason for buying time but I've always thought the reason for a week in particular was to give the impression that they would be back in time to go to school. This would make it more believable and maybe relieve some of the qualms the parents would have.

I would agree if it were another time of year, but who in the world runs away or takes a "vacation" at Christmas-- with a nine-year-old? That makes no sense.

Well they were all standing at a bus stop a week later so what does that tell us?
The letter worked.

At that point, those parents would've signed up for a trip to Mars, if they thought they'd see their kids again.

 

[Pricklykitty]

If there had been no letter, what would have happened differently? LE already thought the girls ran away. Would houses have been searched to see if belongings were missing? Would parents (and spouses) have been interviewed about domestic situations?

I agree, but why was time needed? Rachel's and Renee's families knew each other. Was there concern that Renee's family might catch on to something?


I've often thought about that, and wondered why he believed Renee would run away, (especially, at that particular time), when we've been given every reason to believe she had reason to be home. According to RA,  DA was in the habit of "running off". Was Renee? Her dad said she was "hardheaded" and "had a temper". Rachel and Renee were close. Had they "run off" before (however briefly), or talked (even jokingly) about doing so?

Again, why is a week so important? None of the scenarios we've discussed on here (except maybe a drug or trafficking related one) require that much time.

I think if there had been no letter then it would have been harder for LE to stick with the runaway theory. That letter backed up this theory and meant that nothing was really taken seriously in those crucial few hours/days. Don't get me wrong, I think it was ridiculous that the runaway theory was even considered, but it was and unfortunately the letter played into that.

Honestly the need for time could have been for a few reasons. Covering tracks, time to compose themselves.....only whoever wrote it knows why. My best guess though is that the week was just what they thought sounded right as they wrote it rather than a definite amount of time needed.
I have wondered if DA ever left notes when she ran off and if so what they said ..

By Judy Wilson's reaction to RW being late, I don't think she was in the habit of running off. I think maybe Richard was convinced by others that all would be ok and they would come back. Not in any sinister way convinced, just by friends giving him hope really. Again the letter could have fed into that hope.

 

[beubeubeu]

I've thought of that. But, after all this time, you would think something or someone would have cleared them, if that were the case.

Clear them how? Nobody else got truly cleared out either. As long as girls fate is unknown, doubts are surrounding everyone who's mentioned in retellings of the story.

 

[beubeubeu]

I've often thought about that, and wondered why he believed Renee would run away, (especially, at that particular time), when we've been given every reason to believe she had reason to be home. According to RA,  DA was in the habit of "running off". Was Renee? Her dad said she was "hardheaded" and "had a temper". Rachel and Renee were close. Had they "run off" before (however briefly), or talked (even jokingly) about doing so?

No, no, and as far as I know no.
IMO
It's one thing to ask yourself a question: could my daughter just ran away?

And another to think about it while your (friends?) neighbours that you know for years are:
- telling you that their daughter, your daughters friend have send a note in which she explains where they're heading and when they will be back,
- confirming 100% that it was her handwriting,
- maybe even offering some uplifting stories how they used to be scared by DA's runaway escapades that ended up to be just her being irresponsible
+ likely getting same stuff from LE (something to the accord of like "oh yeah, we have parents who swear on God that their kid would NEVER ran away twice a day, then they're freaking out, and then kid comes back as soon as they're done with having fun").
All that can really set your mind in a different way.

Again, why is a week so important? None of the scenarios we've discussed on here (except maybe a drug or trafficking related one) require that much time.

Maybe it's not about that week passing but about what was happening in about a week since they went missing.
24th - letter arrives
31st - new year's eve
Maybe the festivities (if there was anything big happening around) were good occasion to cover some activities related to hiding bodies or relocating abducted girls?
Maybe it just sounded awfully convenient that young people are running away to party till new year?

 

[beubeubeu]

Well they were all standing at a bus stop a week later so what does that tell us?
The letter worked.

All were waiting for all buses heading from Houston?
Bit weird, note wasn't giving specific date of their arrival, so the most sense would be to have someone there waiting for each of those buses, kinda changing shifts.

I can't help but get the feeling that some of the people at that bus stop knew the girls would not be coming back.

Possibly same person who convinced everyone else which time is THE TIME they should await them.

 

[beubeubeu]

I think if there had been no letter then it would have been harder for LE to stick with the runaway theory.

Oh LE did that in many, way too many cases. Even going as far as ignoring belongings of these kids in disarray on the side of road and some vague reports from neighbours who heard a scream about the time kid/s went missing, or saw a car speeding up from the scene. And kept that attitude for long years.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Oh LE did that in many, way too many cases. Even going as far as ignoring belongings of these kids in disarray on the side of road and some vague reports from neighbours who heard a scream about the time kid/s went missing, or saw a car speeding up from the scene. And kept that attitude for long years.

That's just sad...

 

[Brightchaser47]

No, no, and as far as I know no.
IMO
It's one thing to ask yourself a question: could my daughter just ran away?

And another to think about it while your (friends?) neighbours that you know for years are:
- telling you that their daughter, your daughters friend have send a note in which she explains where they're heading and when they will be back,
- confirming 100% that it was her handwriting,
- maybe even offering some uplifting stories how they used to be scared by DA's runaway escapades that ended up to be just her being irresponsible
+ likely getting same stuff from LE (something to the accord of like "oh yeah, we have parents who swear on God that their kid would NEVER ran away twice a day, then they're freaking out, and then kid comes back as soon as they're done with having fun").
All that can really set your mind in a different way.

Good points. However, if that was indeed what was said, and the actual attitude of that family, then WOW. They were either involved with the disappearance somehow, or really laid-back parents (IMO).
Since they apparently changed their minds about the handwriting being Rachel's...

 

[Brightchaser47]

Maybe it's not about that week passing but about what was happening in about a week since they went missing.
24th - letter arrives
31st - new year's eve
Maybe the festivities (if there was anything big happening around) were good occasion to cover some activities related to hiding bodies or relocating abducted girls?

From that angle, it almost  has to be something related to drugs or trafficking (IMO). Sorry. It shouldn't take  days ( with or  without major holidays) to dispose of three bodies-- especially three young, petite girls. Especially in that part of Texas.
Where were Christmas and New Year's festivities expected to be held for the A family and T household (assuming the girls hadn't gone missing)? Did that couple who came to see TT arrive  during, or  after Christmas?

 

[Brightchaser47]

Honestly the need for time could have been for a few reasons. Covering tracks, time to compose themselves....

Of the three families, the only members who weren't at the mall that night (and therefore would've had  opportunity to "compose themselves") were CA and FA, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[FW_Froggy]

T

Of the three families, the only members who weren't at the mall that night (and therefore would've had  opportunity to "compose themselves") were CA and FA, unless I'm mistaken.

To my knowledge it was CA,FA, and JM (Julie's father).

 

[Brightchaser47]

T

To my knowledge it was CA,FA, and JM (Julie's father).

I forgot about Julie's father, but he's never been considered suspicious (that I know of). Just an absent parent.

 

[beubeubeu]

Good points. However, if that was indeed what was said, and the actual attitude of that family, then WOW. They were either involved with the disappearance somehow, or really laid-back parents (IMO).

Quite likely but not neccessarily. There could be other factors influencing parents stressed minds causing them to act in a way that wont make any sense for anyone whos unaware or unfamiliar of those factors.

Generally speaking any remotely normal parent should NOT tend to assume runaway in such bizarre circumstances, but theoretically, if parents lost their minds few times before while DA ran away, just to later learn that everything was fine, adding to that some possible pressure like maybe "we cant push LE to investigate this, they may get too interested in our business and find some things that we will get in trouble for, and what will we do later, when girls will came back as nothing happened"?

I may actually not stumble on single person who would say that yep, they totally see how could hear the details about Julie (her age, how she joined Renee and Rachel) and still think that's simple runaway case. Including those claiming to have or having experience as investigators.
And that makes me think that there just had to be something more, no matter how fiercely A's were pursuing their narrative (if they did).
Convincing terrified parents that their kids just ran away seems to be a default also and may be not enough. Maybe some emotional blackmail was also in place and W's were asked if they're really 100% sure that Renee would never ran away and did not ran away, cause if LE will start investigating it on full speed, not like runaways, then Renee and Rachel will get into serious trouble for basically kidnapping Julie?

I know it was stated many times that it's a shame that they havent thought about going for this path, and I would absolutely buy that if it was just one single parent, maybe a couple. But straight away there were multiple people to think and seek solutions - even if A's weren't interested in getting cops to investigate it seriously, there was still Julie's mom, Renee's parents and Renee's uncles... isnt it kinda ridiculous to assume that not one of them thought of it as a solution, a way to speed it up and cause LE to start investigating?

It's not that relevant really, but for me it really seems like Renee's family and Julie's mom could get basically gaslighted into focusing on hope/belief that girls really ran away.

 

[beubeubeu]

From that angle, it almost  has to be something related to drugs or trafficking (IMO). Sorry. It shouldn't take  days ( with or  without major holidays) to dispose of three bodies-- especially three young, petite girls. Especially in that part of Texas.
Where were Christmas and New Year's festivities expected to be held for the A family and T household (assuming the girls hadn't gone missing)? Did that couple who came to see TT arrive  during, or  after Christmas?

That letter keeps bugging me.
Let's say no letter arrived.
No way it would cause cops to do thorough search of the home at Minot, or other houses, or any buisnesses or family properties.
At the very best, if they got careful and dedicated investigator, they'd show up where the girls lived and assisted parents with getting through girls stuff to look for clues, make sure what items were missing and so on.
Cause yes, families and those close to the missing are always first to look at, but kinda more in general. Here they had all the clues pointing at the girls going missing from the SS. And not much of a chance that they car wouldn't be located there till morning (if planted).
Without some serious red flags LE wouldn't go for thorough searches of family homes.
Were such red flags present? There was that alleged fight between Rachel & TT at the bowling alley, but this is a biggie now, cause for almost 50 years we don't know much more. But then? That flag would be orange at best.

I'd think that they would focus most of their attention on any known creeps from the SS area, any known creeps known to the girls, their friends and acquaintances, visiting as many locations in FW.

I used to be so focused on the fact that note is taking attention off A's and TT's houses as well as from SS...
It may be unforeseen for the person responsible for the letter that it could, and actually SHOULD bring LE's attention to the house on Minot. It may be...

But as I'm thinking now, that note wasn't taking anybodys attention off TT or off his house, or off A's house/business.

It takes everybodys attention:
1. AWAY FROM THE CAR ("nothing" happened there, girls just parked it and headed straight to the bus station! you should all look elsewhere!)
2. AWAY FROM THE SEMINARY SOUTH (hello! it's not related to them at all, they just used it as excuse and went elsewhere so look for them elsewhere!)
3. AWAY FROM FORT WORTH (cause they went to Houston! everybody should look in that direction, they're certainly not anywhere close!)

And here we go:
- car dismissed as possible source of evidence,
- SS all over the news and articles but far from being thoroughly looked at by LE,
- Fort Worth locations dismissed also, everyone basically ended up waiting, no searches, all these interviews with girls friends and young people hanging out at SS that should absolutely be done as soon as possible were not done.

Considering that now known location of post kiosk at SS - it wasn't convenient to the girls to mail anything from there (but they haven't done it), it wasn't convenient for anyone who left their car there (unless it was done during fake attempt at "searching" the area late at night), but for sure it was absolutely convenient and known location for someone who was spending a lot of time there often.
"Sears parking lot" after all. Neither the girls, DA or TT were known to use that phrase, customers weren't even used to park there and people from the area mostly say that it wouldn't be logical to call that location that way for anyone but those who worked there.

 

[beubeubeu]

Did anyone ever stumbled on a post, comment, anything from then-teenage girl from Forth Worth who was caught on or accused of stealing by SS or it's store's security and described how it looked like?

Likely not something to brag about but damn, how interesting it would be to know if false accusations were happening often and what was "the drill"?
Did they had some female guards or guys were searching teens?

 

[Brightchaser47]

DA took two polygraphs (one of which she walked out of), one or both of which was allegedly inconclusive (she claims she passed). That's not a real shocker to me, at this point. What puzzles me is,  why was TT given  three of them ( all of which he passed)? After he passed the first one, you'd think that would be the end of it.  Maybe a second one, if there were questions about how it was administered, interpreted, etc. But  three?
. Was there something about DA's responses that made LE take a closer look at TT? If I'm not mistaken, DA only took/finished hers after being pressured to do so. Was there any reluctance on his part to take them?

 

[Brightchaser47]

There was mention on an earlier thread of an old abandoned airfield in Ft. Worth, that was used for drag racing (IIRC), before becoming a housing development, in later years. I believe there were underground tunnels mentioned in connection with that.
Also, there was mention (in a number of sources) of Rachel's and Renee's families camping together at Benbrook Lake in the summer. Is this accurate? If so, did they have permanent, rented spots with camping trailers, or did it change, depending on what was available?

 

[Brightchaser47]

Considering that now known location of post kiosk at SS - it wasn't convenient to the girls to mail anything from there (but they haven't done it), it wasn't convenient for anyone who left their car there (unless it was done during fake attempt at "searching" the area late at night), but for sure it was absolutely convenient and known location for someone who was spending a lot of time there often.
"Sears parking lot" after all. Neither the girls, DA or TT were known to use that phrase, customers weren't even used to park there and people from the area mostly say that it wouldn't be logical to call that location that way for anyone but those who worked there.

I'm still leaning toward the idea TT wrote the letter that night, and mailed the envelope from the kiosk, after meeting with the others (families and LE) at the mall parking lot, hearing police dialogue on the radios.
I would  remotely consider the girls were abducted by a security guard, but as a last resort.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Something that bothers  me about the letter, is that while some family members are  certain that TT wrote it (those same family members claimed to have seen samples of Rachel's  and TT's handwriting), the "experts" (FBI) had access to "piles" of samples of Rachel's and TT's handwriting, and  their findings were inconclusive. Shouldn't FBI handwriting experts be able to tell
1. Whether more than one person wrote the letter?
2. Whether or not Rachel wrote the letter under duress?
3. Whether or not TT wrote the letter?

 

[jetsfanjohn]

I'm still leaning toward the idea TT wrote the letter that night, and mailed the envelope from the kiosk, after meeting with the others (families and LE) at the mall parking lot, hearing police dialogue on the radios.
I would  remotely consider the girls were abducted by a security guard, but as a last resort.

JMO, if TT posted the letter that evening, I don't think it would have arrived at Minot Drive by the next morning. That would be too quick, IMO, due to the huge volume of Christmas packages and cards that would be in the system at the time.

I don't think the letter ever went through the system...I think the envelope did though, probably with a Christmas card in it.