TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[Chypre]

Studying maps, and comparing street layout with statements from folks involved with this case, I'm rethinking some things. I feel the girls likely stayed within a fairly tight loop that started with Gordon neighborhood, with one or two quick stops in that general area (encompassing Gordon, Townsend, Wayside, Forest Park), during which VB joined them, then to A/N store (intersection of W Berry/Hemphill), then back to Gordon/Wayside/Forest Park area, then to Rachel's parents' house, via a back alley. I think quite possibly the girls were at 6th Ave about the time they should've been at the mall (and about the time others place them at Minot), and may/may not have gotten there (6th Ave) under their own steam. From there, the Olds was taken to SS parking lot, and the letter written with the involvement of either Rachel's brother or ST.
I do not believe the girls were ever at Minot that day or that Rachel's husband was directly responsible for their demise (though his complicity after the fact is debatable).
This is all speculation and one possibility (and jmo).W

What is at 6th avenue?

 

[Brightchaser47]

What is at 6th avenue?

Rachel's family lived at 5748 S 6th Ave.

 

[Chypre]

Rachel's family lived at 5748 S 6th Ave.

Thank you. Duh. So focused on Minot . . .
Edited to add:
And then back to questions of who, what, where, and why regarding Cotton's health, rides to work, which shop, etc.
Can (or if you don't mind to, please) share what you think about who was home that day?

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Studying maps, and comparing street layout with statements from folks involved with this case, I'm rethinking some things. I feel the girls likely stayed within a fairly tight loop that started with Gordon neighborhood, with one or two quick stops in that general area (encompassing Gordon, Townsend, Wayside, Forest Park), during which VB joined them, then to A/N store (intersection of W Berry/Hemphill), then back to Gordon/Wayside/Forest Park area, then to Rachel's parents' house, via a back alley. I think quite possibly the girls were at 6th Ave about the time they should've been at the mall (and about the time others place them at Minot), and may/may not have gotten there (6th Ave) under their own steam. From there, the Olds was taken to SS parking lot, and the letter written with the involvement of either Rachel's brother or ST.
I do not believe the girls were ever at Minot that day or that Rachel's husband was directly responsible for their demise (though his complicity after the fact is debatable).
This is all speculation and one possibility (and jmo).

Good post and good to know a bit about the geography of the area. I would have doubts about Rachel's brother being involved in the writing of the letter, though, he would have been too young. I don't see him having any knowledge of the girl's disappearance at that time.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Thank you. Duh. So focused on Minot . . .
Edited to add:
And then back to questions of who, what, where, and why regarding Cotton's health, rides to work, which shop, etc.
Can (or if you don't mind to, please) share what you think about who was home that day?

I think Rachel's parents were both home at least most of that day. I don't believe her dad's health at that point was as poor as some have said, though he may have had to be cautious of his activities when the cancer treatment was applied.
Her mom allegedly going next door around noon to help decorate  may have been a diversion or to establish an alibi. It's around noon (after the stop at A/N) that the girls' actual whereabouts come into question.
It was stated (by next door neighbors) that A family car never left the driveway that day. But there's a rear alley that I've never heard mention of that allows for lots of possibilities, imo.
As for rides to work, IF the two men generally rode together, TT picked up CA (rather than the reverse),  as it would've been on his way, and I do believe he looked up to his FIL and would've accommodated him. Pricklykitty covered this topic pretty well in thread #7, post 469, so I won't repeat here.
I tend to believe TT went to work at Arlington that day alone, but was later asked to provide an alibi for his in-laws.
I still think something hinky was going on at the FW shop, and it wasn't closed down, but at this point, I don't think the girls were there that day.
I think it's very possible that Rachel's mother planted the car at SS and RA's story of going with his mom to search stores was either RA stating what he felt  should've happened (but didn't) or a cover story, in case she was seen.
Possibilities and just my opinion.

 

[Chypre]

I think Rachel's parents were both home at least most of that day. I don't believe her dad's health at that point was as poor as some have said, though he may have had to be cautious of his activities when the cancer treatment was applied.
Her mom allegedly going next door around noon to help decorate  may have been a diversion or to establish an alibi. It's around noon (after the stop at A/N) that the girls' actual whereabouts come into question.
It was stated (by next door neighbors) that A family car never left the driveway that day. But there's a rear alley that I've never heard mention of that allows for lots of possibilities, imo.
As for rides to work, IF the two men generally rode together, TT picked up CA (rather than the reverse),  as it would've been on his way, and I do believe he looked up to his FIL and would've accommodated him. Pricklykitty covered this topic pretty well in thread #7, post 469, so I won't repeat here.
I tend to believe TT went to work at Arlington that day alone, but was later asked to provide an alibi for his in-laws.
I still think something hinky was going on at the FW shop, and it wasn't closed down, but at this point, I don't think the girls were there that day.
I think it's very possible that Rachel's mother planted the car at SS and RA's story of going with his mom to search stores was either RA stating what he felt  should've happened (but didn't) or a cover story, in case she was seen.
Possibilities and just my opinion.

Thanks, My mind is chewing on the details; mostly I had never seriously considered mother to be an accessory. So, FA and CT are home probably all day. TT goes to work. IMO, this makes it likely FA and CT are implicated regardless of whether TT was involved or not. Especially if the girls didn't go to the shop.

 

[Brightchaser47]

IMO, this makes it likely FA and CT are implicated regardless of whether TT was involved or not. Especially if the girls didn't go to the shop.

RSBM
I think so. But they weren't in it alone. For Det. Wilbanks and others to act as they did in the early days of this case, CA/FA had to have connections in LE -- if not Wilbanks himself. jmo

So who had access to a car and was either willing to lose it, or wanted to get rid of it anyway? Is there even a wisp of a chance an junked car (with bodies in trunk, etc.) was loaded on a wrecker and towed there? That lake looks to be in the absolute boondocks, and that's NOW. Around Christmas in '74 it would've been desolate, but was this whole thing so planned out a disposal car was ready, or were the killings impulsive and the bodies lay until a car was found?

RSBM
It wasn't likely a planned killing. I'm not 100% convinced they were killed, but if they  were, all it would take is a phone call to the right individual(s) to take care of it.
If the girls were indeed disposed of in Benbrook Lake (which is a good possibility, imo), I think a car from either a police impound lot or wrecking yard was used. LE would have access to those at any hour. CA, FA and TT would've been  very familiar with local wrecking yards and impound lots. Even better if a cop or close associate of CA owned such a yard.
It's been discussed that there may've been a junk car at the transmission shop at Arlington used. That's possible, but I tend to think if a junk car was used, it didn't come from the shop.
Also, Benbrook Lake is huge, deep, and murky. You could search it for years and not find anything.... all jmo

 

[DD Byrd]

So, is it generally thought that Rachel's parents wanted her out of the picture?
And why is that reason strong enough to likely kill two other girls, unless they were collateral damage?

 

[Brightchaser47]

So, is it generally thought that Rachel's parents wanted her out of the picture?

RSBM
I think so. With debts piling up and Dad ill, by marrying her off to TT, they had one less mouth to feed. Also, it's commonly held that Rachel's parents thought TT was wealthy, and in adding him to the family, they thought  they would become wealthy.
Sooo, more money coming in, less money going out. JMO

And why is that reason strong enough to likely kill two other girls, unless they were collateral damage?

That's one theory.

 

[Chypre]

RSBM
I think so. With debts piling up and Dad ill, by marrying her off to TT, they had one less mouth to feed. Also, it's commonly held that Rachel's parents thought TT was wealthy, and in adding him to the family, they thought  they would become wealthy.
Sooo, more money coming in, less money going out. JMO

That's one theory.

Where Sissy at in all this?

 

[DD Byrd]

RSBM
I think so. With debts piling up and Dad ill, by marrying her off to TT, they had one less mouth to feed. Also, it's commonly held that Rachel's parents thought TT was wealthy, and in adding him to the family, they thought  they would become wealthy.
Sooo, more money coming in, less money going out. JMO

That's one theory.

That makes sense. But the leap to killing her seems a big one. Esp if TT wasn't involved.
To kill the other two says to me it wasn't planned, at least that day, and Rachel was supposed to be taken care of on her own. So...there must have been an urgency that overrode Renee and Julie being there (unless they were accidental witnesses). That scenario seems business related.

OR, there was some major blowup and Rachel was maimed and/or threatened to tell, or was killed in the heat of the moment...and again, Renee and Julie were in the wrong place at the wrong time. This scenario seems more personal, possibly having to do with TT's son and a domestic dust up.

How can so many people keep quiet so long? It seems not all the secrets could have gone with the dead characters in the whole story.

 

[DD Byrd]

This thread could benefit from a permanent one-pager with cast of characters, locations, and a multi-family tree forest. I think I've seen more than one before, but as the years go by, they wade into the rehashing.

 

[Brightchaser47]

This thread could benefit from a permanent one-pager with cast of characters, locations, and a multi-family tree forest. I think I've seen more than one before, but as the years go by, they wade into the rehashing.

Agree, but you'd get lost in the initials (as we're supposed to ID only by initials if they're not official suspects/POI (publicly released names).
P.S. There are no official suspects/POIs in this case (grrr)

 

[Brightchaser47]

That makes sense. But the leap to killing her seems a big one. Esp if TT wasn't involved.
To kill the other two says to me it wasn't planned, at least that day, and Rachel was supposed to be taken care of on her own. So...there must have been an urgency that overrode Renee and Julie being there (unless they were accidental witnesses). That scenario seems business related.

OR, there was some major blowup and Rachel was maimed and/or threatened to tell, or was killed in the heat of the moment...and again, Renee and Julie were in the wrong place at the wrong time. This scenario seems more personal, possibly having to do with TT's son and a domestic dust up.

How can so many people keep quiet so long? It seems not all the secrets could have gone with the dead characters in the whole story.

All good points (and some reasons I'm not totally convinced the girls died that day). JMO

 

[DD Byrd]

And if the girls weren't killed, they were...sold? And were either unsuccessful in trying or NEVER tried to contact someone, even 50 years later?
If multiple families AND LE were involved (or complacent) I find it next to impossible no one cracked. Or at the very least came across something and leaked it. As they say, even 2 people might not keep a secret. All of these people were in successful 'cahoots' after a spur of the moment event. It's a lot.

 

[DD Byrd]

Agree, but you'd get lost in the initials (as we're supposed to ID only by initials if they're not official suspects/POI (publicly released names).
P.S. There are no official suspects/POIs in this case (grrr)

Ah. But what about straight up facts i.e., "Rachel's sister is named ..."?

 

[DD Byrd]

'm not totally convinced the girls died that day)

Meaning they died another day, or are still potentially alive?

 

[Brightchaser47]

And if the girls weren't killed, they were...sold? And were either unsuccessful in trying or NEVER tried to contact someone, even 50 years later?

RSBM
People who are trafficked a) have little to no control over their own lives (including contacting loved ones) and seldom live to old age.

If multiple families AND LE were involved (or complacent) I find it next to impossible no one cracked.

Or at the very least came across something and leaked it. As they say, even 2 people might not keep a secret. All of these people were in successful 'cahoots' after a spur of the moment event. It's a lot.

I agree, it is a lot. As a matter of fact, there  is an alleged confession, but I can't quote/link the source (WS TOS) and LE is supposedly suppressing it.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Meaning they died another day, or are still potentially alive?

I'm leaning toward them surviving that day, but likely being deceased by now.

 

[Brightchaser47]

What  really burns me is that Rachel's own family and two P.I.s have all allegedly theorized the girls were sold into prostitution (that's not why I think it btw, but anyway). But no one to my knowledge, has ever seriously searched for them in that industry. Allegedly the girls were sighted all over the place, but no one said "Hey, call the cops. I found them over on such-and-such St". Trust me, very few in that line of work are volunteers. I often wonder what prompted Rachel's sister to get into "dancing", as she was in a very similar predicament herself, imo. JMO