TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

[Pricklykitty]

IMO, TM  might've given Renee that ring to "stake his claim", if you will. That might've been one way to encourage Renee's fidelity and send a message to VB to "back off".

I thought this. He can't remember where he got it, what it looked like, how much it cost etc. Then he just handed it over early one morning without any thought. No I think for someone in his position buying the ring would have taken thought and financial planning, and would likely have been something he thought alot about before doing. Im thinking he maybe didn't buy the ring at all but acquired it somewhere, and handed it over that morning because he knew RW was going to be in the company of someone that day who TM risked losing her to. That could be VB, could be someone else. Either way though it could, imo only, mean that TM knows who the girls were with that day, and where they where.

 

[jetsfanjohn]

Anyone got any interesting 'VB did it' theories ? I just can't join the dots on it myself. Maybe something happens at that vacant house, but then where are the bodies...and what about the 'Runaway' note ?

 

[Pricklykitty]

Anyone got any interesting 'VB did it' theories ? I just can't join the dots on it myself. Maybe something happens at that vacant house, but then where are the bodies...and what about the 'Runaway' note ?

I don't think vb did it, and if he was present when anything happened then he certainly wasn't there alone and didnt deal with the aftermath alone.
However I do think he could connect the girls to being somewhere or being with someone we dont know about.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Anyone got any interesting 'VB did it' theories ? I just can't join the dots on it myself. Maybe something happens at that vacant house, but then where are the bodies...and what about the 'Runaway' note ?

I don't believe VB was directly responsible for the girls disappearing, but he could definitely have known (or suspected) who was. Was there anyone in our cast of characters that he directly avoided contact with, immediately after this occured? Who did he last speak with before leaving town?
I don't believe TT killed them, although he may have suspected or known what happened (maybe even been involved somehow). I've never seen Rachel's handwriting, but I don't believe TT wrote the note.
I tend to think the girls were killed accidentally, somehow. As for where their bodies are, FW_Froggy may be right. Property still in the hands of family members should be considered. What better way to ensure mutual silence and cooperation?

 

[beubeubeu]

I thought this. He can't remember where he got it, what it looked like, how much it cost etc. Then he just handed it over early one morning without any thought. No I think for someone in his position buying the ring would have taken thought and financial planning, and would likely have been something he thought alot about before doing. Im thinking he maybe didn't buy the ring at all but acquired it somewhere, and handed it over that morning because he knew RW was going to be in the company of someone that day who TM risked losing her to. That could be VB, could be someone else. Either way though it could, imo only, mean that TM knows who the girls were with that day, and where they where.

Teenage boy buying a ring, thoughtful enough to remember that Renee likes dolphins and getting ring with dolphins on it could require as little effort as:
- having few bucks (single digits) in pocket,
- walking into the store that has a lot of things girls like,
- asking to see some rings,
- being handed the selection of cheap rings,
- noticing that one has a dolphin on it,
- figuring out that's the one,
- buying it, putting it into the pocket,
- looking at it once again just before giving it to the girl,
- giving her the ring,
- considering the task is completed.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Teenage boy buying a ring, thoughtful enough to remember that Renee likes dolphins and getting ring with dolphins on it could require as little effort as:
- having few bucks (single digits) in pocket,
- walking into the store that has a lot of things girls like,
- asking to see some rings,
- being handed the selection of cheap rings,
- noticing that one has a dolphin on it,
- figuring out that's the one,
- buying it, putting it into the pocket,
- looking at it once again just before giving it to the girl,
- giving her the ring,
- considering the task is completed.

I thought this. He can't remember where he got it, what it looked like, how much it cost etc. Then he just handed it over early one morning without any thought. No I think for someone in his position buying the ring would have taken thought and financial planning, and would likely have been something he thought alot about before doing. Im thinking he maybe didn't buy the ring at all but acquired it somewhere, and handed it over that morning because he knew RW was going to be in the company of someone that day who TM risked losing her to. That could be VB, could be someone else. Either way though it could, imo only, mean that TM knows who the girls were with that day, and where they where.

Did TM have a job at that time, to be able to buy something like that? Or would he have been able to get money from Mom or Dad?

 

[beubeubeu]

Did TM have a job at that time, to be able to buy something like that? Or would he have been able to get money from Mom or Dad?

As far as I'm aware he didn't claim to buy expensive ring, like he was planning to go for engagement at 15. And nice looking metal ring with pendant could be very cheap. Like what could buy one to three lunches or few snacks.
These weird claims about Renee having diamond ring, Rachel getting diamond ring from Melvin, wearing some other diamond ring, and having yet another diamond ring from TT sound completely ridiculous. At least I thought we're talking medium to lower medium class families, and that can't afford diamond rings for teens. If it would, then considering DA's popularity she should be all covered in diamonds and gold.
There was this weird pic, that was added to Renee's MP file (officially available) and it surely looked like a diamond ring... kinda similar to Rachel's wedding ring and even claimed to be same as TM give to her (Renee), but it didn't fit TM's description of the ring, so did she already had one fancy ring or did it end up there by mistake... no idea.

 

[FW_Froggy]

Teenage boy buying a ring, thoughtful enough to remember that Renee likes dolphins and getting ring with dolphins on it could require as little effort as:
- having few bucks (single digits) in pocket,
- walking into the store that has a lot of things girls like,
- asking to see some rings,
- being handed the selection of cheap rings,
- noticing that one has a dolphin on it,
- figuring out that's the one,
- buying it, putting it into the pocket,
- looking at it once again just before giving it to the girl,
- giving her the ring,
- considering the task is completed.

Dolphin rings at that time were very popular. Spencer Gifts at Seminary South had trays of them.

 

[FW_Froggy]

Did TM have a job at that time, to be able to buy something like that? Or would he have been able to get money from Mom or Dad?

All he would have to do is mow one lawn and he could buy that ring and have 15 dollars left over.

 

[Brightchaser47]

Dolphin rings at that time were very popular. Spencer Gifts at Seminary South had trays of them.

All he would have to do is mow one lawn and he could buy that ring and have 15 dollars left over.

Then I'm thinking it would be more about being "cool" than "I'm in love"...

 

[Brightchaser47]

Anyone got any interesting 'VB did it' theories ? I just can't join the dots on it myself. Maybe something happens at that vacant house, but then where are the bodies...and what about the 'Runaway' note ?

FWIW, I understand the envelope  was tested for DNA, but there were no matches (according to TM). My question is whose DNA was it compared to?

 

[beubeubeu]

FWIW, I understand the envelope  was tested for DNA, but there were no matches (according to TM). My question is whose DNA was it compared to?

Allegedly all three girls & their database, which i can't imagine being that big over 20 years ago.

 

[beubeubeu]

Dolphin rings at that time were very popular. Spencer Gifts at Seminary South had trays of them.

So even less effort finding one. Was it ever specified for how long he and Renee were dating? Cause it would make sense for him to not remember much details about it, not be invited for Rachel's bday party, not know her that well, meet her maybe twice before 23rd if he:
a) wasn't dating Renee for long,
b) wasn't close friend of VB yet
What makes bit less sense is for a guy who's very interested in a girl and even considers that he may lose her interest to decline an offer to spend time with her.
If he didn't knew about the trip and earlier promised to visit that friend at hospital then maybe, but how far was that hospital and how did he get there? Couldn't he do both and quickly join the girls at SS? Has that friend confirmed that TM visited him?
I'm not wondering that at the angle of him possibly knowing the girls fate, but is that outside of the range of possibility that someone influenced his actions on that day and made sure that he won't join Renee (maybe even without him realizing that)?

 

[rainwaterstill]

Dolphin rings at that time were very popular. Spencer Gifts at Seminary South had trays of them.

Exactly. Claire's was another store located in malls, with jewelry and accessories that were popular with teens at the time. I can remember paying 75 cents for pairs of earrings from Claire's.

 

[Pricklykitty]

Well Im just gonna have to agree to disagree because I still say that a teenage boy buying, in his own words, his first ever promise ring would remember more details about getting that ring!

 

[Pricklykitty]

What makes bit less sense is for a guy who's very interested in a girl and even considers that he may lose her interest to decline an offer to spend time with her.
If he didn't knew about the trip and earlier promised to visit that friend at hospital then maybe, but how far was that hospital and how did he get there? Couldn't he do both and quickly join the girls at SS? Has that friend confirmed that TM visited him?
I'm not wondering that at the angle of him possibly knowing the girls fate, but is that outside of the range of possibility that someone influenced his actions on that day and made sure that he won't join Renee (maybe even without him realizing that)?

This is a good point, and something that could be a possibility. The friend , who I have seen on fb groups, but not commenting on that day, was at home and going to hospital for an op later that day. TM says the friend was nervous so he visited him, and then when the friend left for the hospital, TM fell asleep at the friends house. So he, TM ,says he didnt leave Gordon all that day.
So we really only have his word of why he didn't go shopping, and what he did after his friend left, assuming he did visit with him.
Its possible he stayed behind for another reason, knowingly or not

 

[Brightchaser47]

Well Im just gonna have to agree to disagree because I still say that a teenage boy buying, in his own words, his first ever promise ring would remember more details about getting that ring!

Guys aren't always "detail-oriented" when it comes to jewelry (unless it gets lost or pawned). In all fairness, TM's own recollections of things aren't always consistent. IMO, some of his statements about giving Renee the ring almost remind me of DA's statements about her "engagement" to TT (no disrespect intended).

 

[Brightchaser47]

Exactly. Claire's was another store located in malls, with jewelry and accessories that were popular with teens at the time. I can remember paying 75 cents for pairs of earrings from Claire's.

I didn't realize Claire's had been around that long...

 

[beubeubeu]

This is a good point, and something that could be a possibility. The friend , who I have seen on fb groups, but not commenting on that day, was at home and going to hospital for an op later that day. TM says the friend was nervous so he visited him, and then when the friend left for the hospital, TM fell asleep at the friends house. So he, TM ,says he didnt leave Gordon all that day.
So we really only have his word of why he didn't go shopping, and what he did after his friend left, assuming he did visit with him.
Its possible he stayed behind for another reason, knowingly or not

That could happen. But it does sound idiotic imo. Falling asleep sometime around noon at some random place sounds like true exhaustion... or consequences of an 15yo drinking whiskey. If the latter, I'd wonder if it was completely normal for him or if someone possibly made that happen on that specific day. It's not that he could be drinking with the friend that had an op hours later. So someone else, yet not VB? Then who?

 

[FW_Froggy]

Seems like that day everybody is falling asleep OR sitting waiting by the Telephone.