TX - Juliet & Cavanaugh Ramirez, die in hot car, Weatherford, 26 May 2017 *Arrest*

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One scenario is pretend play. The little girl was at the age where that starts. She mimicked mommy by picking up the keys and the phone and taking baby brother to the car.

I'm guessing if the kids opened the door, it would not have been open all the way. You have to push it open a certain amount before it catches. So the kids could have opened it, climbed in with it basically bumping against their behinds, and then closed it or it closed itself just enough to be latched.

The little girl probably just knew the buttons did something but didn't understand about locking/unlocking the door.
 
policyoftruth501 said:
I'm having a lot of trouble accepting the statement, "they took off". Kids that age can't run fast enough to outrun a grownup - not to the point that they can't be found. In this particular case, stopping to get the car unlocked, get the car door open, both kids climb inside, and then close the car door should have given the mom the advantage she needed to catch up to them if they got away from her. And, btw, wouldn't she hear the car door close if she was hot on their trail?! If she couldn't catch both of them she, at the very least, should have been able to catch one of them. To me, that one statement trips up her whole story. That statement makes it sound as though this all happened within a matter of a couple of minutes, which clearly could not have been the case.
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That's why I suspect that they were left alone much longer than the mother is admitting. Its not the climbing into the car that I don't believe, its the fact that she didn't notice them doing it. Plus they had enough time to suffocate before she thought to check inside the car.

I agree with the previous poster who said they think this was an accident, but she is holding something back. IMO the thing that she is holding back is the length of time that the children were left unsupervised.
 
Maybe they were out and about, kids fell asleep in car, mom parked in shade leaving the babies in car asleep not realizing how hot it was maybe I don't know. I hate to victim blame but very fishy. I am in East Texas and I think yesterday was very hot compared to previous day's.

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Were they found in carseats? That would be a big clue if she forgot them I would think.

I was reading it takes 10 minutes for a cars temp to go up 20 degrees.
Childs body temp rises much faster then adults.
107 is the temp when a child would die.

So it looks like this could happen pretty fast.
 
MzOpinion8d said:
One scenario is pretend play. The little girl was at the age where that starts. She mimicked mommy by picking up the keys and the phone and taking baby brother to the car.

I'm guessing if the kids opened the door, it would not have been open all the way. You have to push it open a certain amount before it catches. So the kids could have opened it, climbed in with it basically bumping against their behinds, and then closed it or it closed itself just enough to be latched.

The little girl probably just knew the buttons did something but didn't understand about locking/unlocking the door.
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This is exactly my thoughts as well. What do kids want, to mimic their parents. And they especially want those two things, the cell phone and the keys! 16 mo old probably more interested in the keys than the 2 year old.

Another scenario is maybe mom was using the bathroom, or tidying up around the house. I know when my daughter was that age, it wasn't out of the ordinary for her to watch a Baby Einstein video for an extended amount of time without making a ruckus. So say mom was distracted for 15 minutes and then when she does go to look for them, she cannot find them. if they were at the floor board or so low in the seat, she wouldn't have seen them. i would have taken off up the road or into the wooded areas, looking frantically. Then back into the house, looking frantically.

When my half sister was a toddler, she disappeared. We looked everywhere, inside and outside. My step mother was having a nervous breakdown, and we were searching EVERYWHERE, inside and outside. Turns out she was inside, on the couch with a pillow over her. How on earth did we miss that child under a pillow i will never know, but i very vividly remember looking high and low and she was right in front of us. My point of course is if mom spent that kind of time looking for her babies, that was precious time ticking down.

This is a very sad and tragic situation. Oh and the lingo 'they took off' is common where I am from (south Louisiana) and does not strike me as odd whatsoever.
 
I personally haven't seen it stated where found but I did note she called authorities and her cell was in car. Maybe it's a mixture of stories from various media helping to muddy the waters. Heartbreaking for sure either way. I wonder if 911 will be released or is available on rewind.

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LaneGirl said:
Were they found in carseats? That would be a big clue if she forgot them I would think.

I was reading it takes 10 minutes for a cars temp to go up 20 degrees.
Childs body temp rises much faster then adults.
107 is the temp when a child would die.

So it looks like this could happen pretty fast.
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They were not in carseats from what i read, they were in the front seat. The passenger front window is what was broken also.
 
Greetings from a tired mom of kids that are 1, 3 & 5. (We recently graduated to this after 9 months of 1, 2 & 5.)

I just am not seeing a coordinated effort of the kids getting from the house to the car with both keys and the cell. Was the car locked and they unlocked it? It's possible and maybe this is what it is. I do know when my middle graces my youngest with her attention he soaks it up.

My mind keeps straying to the letting the sleeping child be - even in the car. If I wanted my kids to stay asleep I'd leave the car running so they'd be comfortable with a/c. Except I couldn't see doing this with the car parked on the street for fear someone would take off with the kids (and the car.)

I don't see mom purposefully doing this while leaving her cell phone within reach. Why? My phone has a passcode but my kids can still answer calls with a swipe. They can even answer FaceTime calls and present the caller to me while I'm in the shower.

I'm hesitant on this one. It's either as mom says or considerably different.

Either way, there are two precious souls no longer with us and their deaths deserve a thorough investigation.
 
NewMama said:
Greetings from a tired mom of kids that are 1, 3 & 5. (We recently graduated to this after 9 months of 1, 2 & 5.)

I just am not seeing a coordinated effort of the kids getting from the house to the car with both keys and the cell. Was the car locked and they unlocked it? It's possible and maybe this is what it is. I do know when my middle graces my youngest with her attention he soaks it up.

My mind keeps straying to the letting the sleeping child be - even in the car. If I wanted my kids to stay asleep I'd leave the car running so they'd be comfortable with a/c. Except I couldn't see doing this with the car parked on the street for fear someone would take off with the kids (and the car.)

I don't see mom purposefully doing this while leaving her cell phone within reach. Why? My phone has a passcode but my kids can still answer calls with a swipe. They can even answer FaceTime calls and present the caller to me while I'm in the shower.

I'm hesitant on this one. It's either as mom says or considerably different.

Either way, there are two precious souls no longer with us and their deaths deserve a thorough investigation.
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BBM, just to clarify, I do not believe it is a fact that the car was in the street. That was an incorrect assumption based on video showing 'a car' on the street, one that was presumably for police/responders.
 
jenlag said:
The car on the street did not have a sunroof, whereas the car on the tow truck did.
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Yeah good catch.

After looking at the house and all the parking available in the driveway it wouldn't make sense to park it out on the street anyway.
 
Technically I guess the keys and phone could have been left in the car previously rather than the toddlers carrying them in with them.

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I can't see those babies climbing into that sweltering vehicle... that rush of hot air when the door opens.

I'll wait until more info comes out though.
 
The being parked in the shade is a good point... they wouldn't die as fast.

Another thing, did they have shoes on?

My girls were this close in age and they only got shoes on to leave the house. If they had no shoes on would they have made it to the car? Or IN the car without burning themselves?

The ground, the metal and even the car seat itself would be hot. I'd think they would have burned themselves long before getting trapped.
 
Would this car have a fob key? If so, wouldn't it be likely that the kids would play with the horn alarm? It's usually a nice red button that's a bit larger than the other buttons.
 
jenlag said:
BBM, just to clarify, I do not believe it is a fact that the car was in the street. That was an incorrect assumption based on video showing 'a car' on the street, one that was presumably for police/responders.
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Thanks for clarifying. That's a pretty important piece of the puzzle!

I had another thought - maybe there was an entertainment system in the vehicle and the little ones wanted to continue watching s movie? Just tossing out theories. I can see my 2yr old throwing a fit over that. Or a toy left in the car.
 
When my daughter was a year and a half, I walked into the kitchen and she was sitting on top of the fridge. There were no drawers pulled out and I couldn't figure out how she had managed to get onto the counter and then onto the top of the fridge. I literally thought someone walked into my house and set her up there and walked back out. I even checked the door to see if it was locked and it was. I asked her how did you get up there and she just said I got here. I asked her did someone put you up there? and she said I got here. She never did it again and to this day I don't know how she did it.
 
So in researching and reading online, I found that the internal car temperature (based upon it being 96℉ outside), could rise to 115℉ in 10 minutes, 125℉ in 20 minutes, 130℉ in 30 minutes. I also found that a child's temperature rises 3-5 times faster than an adults and that once the body temperature reaches 107℉, the body can no longer regulate temperature and that is when permanent damage and death can occur.

What I could not find is how quickly does the internal body temperature rise when exposed to high temperatures. Does anyone have any insight on that?

Another interesting fact I noted was that hot car deaths did not start becoming an epidemic until the laws changed in the early 90s requiring car seats to be placed in the backseat. Still no excuse for what we hear happening year after year, just merely an observation I noted.
 
Renee110 said:
When my daughter was a year and a half, I walked into the kitchen and she was sitting on top of the fridge. There were no drawers pulled out and I couldn't figure out how she had managed to get onto the counter and then onto the top of the fridge. I literally thought someone walked into my house and set her up there and walked back out. I even checked the door to see if it was locked and it was. I asked her how did you get up there and she just said I got here. I asked her did someone put you up there? and she said I got here. She never did it again and to this day I don't know how she did it.
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Did you have an animal? I used to use the cat as a ladder to climb up on things.
 
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