TX - 'Lori Ruff', Longview, WhtFem UP9863, *General Discussion and Theories* #5

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lisapr355

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I'm betting that for getting a gun is getting prints. I'm not saying certainly yes, but it's easily checked. I was a law student/clerk in the 80s and yes, for a name change, the judge would order this, mainly for the crime part. I am in TX, don't own a gun but my father did and I will ask as the laws change.
During the time she changed her name, it was very easy. My cousins took their step dad's name this way so he wouldn't have to adopt them even though it was not to their advantage. They went to court and said that they wanted this new name and it was easy. I believe that this woman did something similar and there wasn't a concern.
 

Gardener1850

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Great ideas about where her fingerprints came from. I didn't know you had to give fingerprints for a gun permit. I know this case has never really been about her suicide but I would still like to see the suicide investigation report. Any Texas locals interested in going to get it?
 

Gardener1850

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I just went back and looked at the fingerprints on the Seattle times article and it says "obtained after her death" above the image.

http://old.seattletimes.com/text/2021243300.html

Thanks, Mrseeker. So they must have had to investigate the suicide. Perhaps she was not recognizable or perhaps it was just to match up her prints to the gun to make sure it was suicide.
 

Darknagel090260

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Some people are forgetting the power of make and how much it could change a persons look. When I have time this week I will do a be for and after photo for you all . This will help show how much a little make can change the way a person looks. Including eye shape, noise and eye browns.
 

BigCityAccountant

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FLEK's Namus Profile was updated on 8/5/16...

I think there is more rule outs...I thought there was only 6 but now there is 8...I could be wrong, my memory isn't that great anymore..

StatusUnidentified
Case number10-24356
Date foundDecember 24, 2010 00:00
Date createdFebruary 09, 2012 14:54
Date last modifiedAugust 05, 2016 11:16
Investigating agency
date QA reviewed
March 06, 2012 07:18


Local Contact (ME/C or Other)

AgencyOfc of Justice Court
Phone903-237-2572

Case Manager

NameDolly Welch
Phone903-237-2572


Exclusions

The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:
The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:
First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA
Teresa Barreras 1961 California
Clara Giusti 1962 Washington
Michelle Giusti 1961 Washington
Helen Green 1958 Illinois
Parley Pate 1959 North Carolina
Denise Sheehy 1954 New York
Tina Walls 1959 Mississippi
Susan Williams 1953 California
 

milkymama

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FLEK's Namus Profile was updated on 8/5/16...

I think there is more rule outs...I thought there was only 6 but now there is 8...I could be wrong, my memory isn't that great anymore..

StatusUnidentified
Case number10-24356
Date foundDecember 24, 2010 00:00
Date createdFebruary 09, 2012 14:54
Date last modifiedAugust 05, 2016 11:16
Investigating agency
date QA reviewed
March 06, 2012 07:18


Local Contact (ME/C or Other)

AgencyOfc of Justice Court
Phone903-237-2572

Case Manager

NameDolly Welch
Phone903-237-2572


Exclusions

The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:
The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent:
First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA
Teresa Barreras 1961 California
Clara Giusti 1962 Washington
Michelle Giusti 1961 Washington
Helen Green 1958 Illinois
Parley Pate 1959 North Carolina
Denise Sheehy 1954 New York
Tina Walls 1959 Mississippi
Susan Williams 1953 California


Susan Williams is definitely a new rule out.
 

dvo

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I have been talking to a girl who lived with Mona (monica) Lisa Lincoln . She was a foster sister to Mona .. She said that she went back to visit Mona's family in 1985 and they were moved she was told that they thought Mona may have been in jail. Mona had gotten into drugs and hanging out with gangs.. .i sent her a pic of mona and pics of lori in a collage the same i posted here.. she didn't realize that they weren't all mona , she said wow .. and sad they looked like Monas sis and niece...She also told me that mona's family had moved to arizona .. Mona loved Cuban food.. She had many Cuban boyfriends and that a incident happened where a friend of Monica's named Tammy had gotten in trouble and Monca's sister went and got her out of there...the gang and prostituition.. i sent her the notes that lori had from her lockbox.. she told me that Mona was a Cna and was taking care of her grandmother at the time.. and that jennifer perkins was a friend of the family and that jackson was a neighbour... she also said , when i expressed to her hat it has been said that Lori was very vain , she said well she turn out to be like her sisters ... that she told me that lish sounds like a gang name i hope this helps . just trying to help... god bless and i hope hit brings closure to all the families out there that want it...

I'd love to hear more about your investigation into Mona/Monica Lisa Lincoln. Although I don't have a strong gut feeling about her initially, in my opinion she is the most similar-looking candidate to Lori we've seen and the timeline works (for what little we know about Mona, anyway). The 5'5" height doesn't really stress me out as there are so few details available that I'm inclined to take anything there is with a grain of salt anyway. The tattoos make it a bit confusing, but still. When I showed a side-by-side to my boyfriend and asked if he thought they could be the same person, he said, "no way. the one has tiny eyes, and the other one (LEK) has big eyes." Well, if that's the only difference, makeup definitely has to be taken into consideration. That old style of outlining right around both the tops and bottoms of your eyes with black eyeliner is a very well known makeup mistake that makes your eyes shrink into your head:

attachment.php


Keeping in mind that the one available picture of Mona definitely has this kind of makeup going on, I thought I'd edit makeup onto the more fresh-faced Lori for comparison, along with adjusting the colouring of the photos slightly to be a little more comparable in quality to the Mona photo. Having spent some time zooming in and staring at both faces, I think it's quite amazing - the position of the ears, spacing of her features, the lines beside her mouth and bags under their eyes are all identical in my opinion, much more than I was expecting.

attachment.php


I just wish we had some more photos and information about Mona, beyond those (possibly misleading) familysearch records (here and here) that suggested she might have been alive and well and living in California into the 2000's. Any ideas?
 

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Gardener1850

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I'd love to hear more about your investigation into Mona/Monica Lisa Lincoln. Although I don't have a strong gut feeling about her initially, in my opinion she is the most similar-looking candidate to Lori we've seen and the timeline works (for what little we know about Mona, anyway). The 5'5" height doesn't really stress me out as there are so few details available that I'm inclined to take anything there is with a grain of salt anyway. The tattoos make it a bit confusing, but still. When I showed a side-by-side to my boyfriend and asked if he thought they could be the same person, he said, "no way. the one has tiny eyes, and the other one (LEK) has big eyes." Well, if that's the only difference, makeup definitely has to be taken into consideration. That old style of outlining right around both the tops and bottoms of your eyes with black eyeliner is a very well known makeup mistake that makes your eyes shrink into your head:

attachment.php


Keeping in mind that the one available picture of Mona definitely has this kind of makeup going on, I thought I'd edit makeup onto the more fresh-faced Lori for comparison, along with adjusting the colouring of the photos slightly to be a little more comparable in quality to the Mona photo. Having spent some time zooming in and staring at both faces, I think it's quite amazing - the position of the ears, spacing of her features, the lines beside her mouth and bags under their eyes are all identical in my opinion, much more than I was expecting.

attachment.php


I just wish we had some more photos and information about Mona, beyond those (possibly misleading) familysearch records (here and here) that suggested she might have been alive and well and living in California into the 2000's. Any ideas?

Great photo work! I think Monica should be submitted if she wasn't already. The only thing that bothers me is the knuckle tattoos and FLEK claiming she was a hand model. No one with scars from tattoo removal could get away with claiming she was a hand model, IMO. If FLEK had scars on her knuckles we should have heard a story about it--like if she gave an excuse saying she used to be a hand model until she burned her hand cooking or something like that--I think we would know about it. The addresses are not troubling at all, IMO. Both of those addresses on familysearch are addresses her immediate family members lived at/used--it would be suspicious if she was at an address not associated with her family. I have seen this in a number of cases now where missing or deceased people continue to have an address recorded as theirs in public records long after they are gone. There could be reasons such as bank accounts kept in their name, government benefits or insurance being paid out to the family or missing property connected to them long after they have moved from that address. I also wonder if the address continues to be reported as a "valid" address if there is no mail forward request made. No one forwards mail for a deceased/missing relative if the family is still living in the house. My grandmother just died and she had magazine subscriptions paid up to the year 2022. We tried to cancel but ended up having to change the address instead to send it to another family member. If family still lived at her house, we wouldn't bother to cancel the magazine subs. If public records go by magazine subscriptions they could think she was still living there.
 

platypus

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This is my first time posting on Websleuths, though I've been reading through the threads on the FLEK case for a long time now. Just never had anything meaningful to contribute! Bear with me on this one, it's a longshot but something to consider.

I came across the case of Deanna Criswell, a 16 year old girl who was found dead in Marana, AZ in 1987. There is a Websleuths forum for Criswell. The Wikipedia article for Deanna Criswell is a helpful summary of the case, too.

The suspected killer is William Ross Knight, who was 31 at the time. Both DC and WRK are from Spokane, WA – I think. The only William Ross Knight I found record of in Spokane was born in 1956, and I am merely operating under the assumption that this is him. WRK relocated to AZ at some point, while in a "relationship" with DC. He purchased a bus ticket for her to come down to AZ to live with him, but she was never heard from again. WRK was never charged for the murder, and apparently died in 2005.

TUCSON - A Pima County Superior Court judge has sentenced William Ross Knight, 31, to life in prison for seven counts of armed robbery. Knight was convicted in May, and Judge G. Thomas Mcchan said Thursday he was imposing the heavy sentence because Knight was on probation at the time of the incidents, in which the robber netted about $3,000. In a pre-sentence report, Knight said he had been addicted to drugs since he was an adolescent. During all seven holdups, Knight pointed a weapon at his victim, demanded money and escaped on foot. He was arrested Nov. 14, 1987, at a topless bar following an altercation with two other patrons. A records search indicated that Knight had outstanding warrants from Nevada and Washington. Knight will not be eligible for parole until he has served 25 years.

I found the blurb above from 1988 or 1987 from this archived Arizona Republic issue.

Obviously this is a huge leap to connect this to FLEK. But I had been wondering if FLEK was an accessory to a crime, which was why she changed her identity and her appearance so drastically. I did kind of a lazy search about unsolved murders from 87/88 and that's how I came across DC. In reading a little bit about the case, any involvement on the part of FLEK seems unlikely as far as the murder goes, so I also wonder if this is the man she was escaping from. Her obit merely said that she was "from Scottsdale, AZ" (not Tucson, but AZ nevertheless.) If she had any connection to the crime, as an accomplice maybe, maybe WRK set her up with the identity change. She may have been a witness or privy to the crime, but was too scared of retaliation so she took "witness protection" into her own hands? Many possibilities.

Maybe there are so little connections here that to even bring it up is too out-there, but it piqued my curiosity about FLEK's possible criminal history. Obviously some similarities in location and timeline are here, but that's about it. If this seems like an avenue worth pursuing, maybe somebody with more records access than I have (I'm not a member of any of the big Ancestry sites, etc.) could take a look.
 

Gardener1850

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This is my first time posting on Websleuths, though I've been reading through the threads on the FLEK case for a long time now. Just never had anything meaningful to contribute! Bear with me on this one, it's a longshot but something to consider.

I came across the case of Deanna Criswell, a 16 year old girl who was found dead in Marana, AZ in 1987. There is a Websleuths forum for Criswell. The Wikipedia article for Deanna Criswell is a helpful summary of the case, too.

The suspected killer is William Ross Knight, who was 31 at the time. Both DC and WRK are from Spokane, WA – I think. The only William Ross Knight I found record of in Spokane was born in 1956, and I am merely operating under the assumption that this is him. WRK relocated to AZ at some point, while in a "relationship" with DC. He purchased a bus ticket for her to come down to AZ to live with him, but she was never heard from again. WRK was never charged for the murder, and apparently died in 2005.



I found the blurb above from 1988 or 1987 from this archived Arizona Republic issue.

Obviously this is a huge leap to connect this to FLEK. But I had been wondering if FLEK was an accessory to a crime, which was why she changed her identity and her appearance so drastically. I did kind of a lazy search about unsolved murders from 87/88 and that's how I came across DC. In reading a little bit about the case, any involvement on the part of FLEK seems unlikely as far as the murder goes, so I also wonder if this is the man she was escaping from. Her obit merely said that she was "from Scottsdale, AZ" (not Tucson, but AZ nevertheless.) If she had any connection to the crime, as an accomplice maybe, maybe WRK set her up with the identity change. She may have been a witness or privy to the crime, but was too scared of retaliation so she took "witness protection" into her own hands? Many possibilities.

Maybe there are so little connections here that to even bring it up is too out-there, but it piqued my curiosity about FLEK's possible criminal history. Obviously some similarities in location and timeline are here, but that's about it. If this seems like an avenue worth pursuing, maybe somebody with more records access than I have (I'm not a member of any of the big Ancestry sites, etc.) could take a look.


Welcome Platypus!

That is an interesting case but other than the locations I don't see how FLEK could have been involved in DC's death. And if she WERE involved why would she ever mention Scottsdale, AZ in her new life? FLEK claimed to be born there and grow up there but she likely lied about that, IMO. I think she had just visited Scottsdale before or had extended family there and was familiar enough she thought she could claim it as her home town. If she had been involved in a crime there she would not want to mention it as a place she had ever been, let alone a place she was from, IMO. I think we will find out she was hiding from a crime committed against her rather than her own criminal past. If you had any reason to suspect that she was involved with Knight (like he had another "girlfriend" that disappeared too) I could believe that she had been victimized by him and escaped when he went to prison, but I can't really see her as someone who committed a major crime like that (MOO).
 

sloane7777

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Great photo work! I think Monica should be submitted if she wasn't already. The only thing that bothers me is the knuckle tattoos and FLEK claiming she was a hand model. No one with scars from tattoo removal could get away with claiming she was a hand model, IMO. If FLEK had scars on her knuckles we should have heard a story about it--like if she gave an excuse saying she used to be a hand model until she burned her hand cooking or something like that--I think we would know about it. The addresses are not troubling at all, IMO. Both of those addresses on familysearch are addresses her immediate family members lived at/used--it would be suspicious if she was at an address not associated with her family. I have seen this in a number of cases now where missing or deceased people continue to have an address recorded as theirs in public records long after they are gone. There could be reasons such as bank accounts kept in their name, government benefits or insurance being paid out to the family or missing property connected to them long after they have moved from that address. I also wonder if the address continues to be reported as a "valid" address if there is no mail forward request made. No one forwards mail for a deceased/missing relative if the family is still living in the house. My grandmother just died and she had magazine subscriptions paid up to the year 2022. We tried to cancel but ended up having to change the address instead to send it to another family member. If family still lived at her house, we wouldn't bother to cancel the magazine subs. If public records go by magazine subscriptions they could think she was still living there.

hmmmm Lincoln.....to Kennedy!
 

platypus

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Welcome Platypus!

That is an interesting case but other than the locations I don't see how FLEK could have been involved in DC's death. And if she WERE involved why would she ever mention Scottsdale, AZ in her new life? FLEK claimed to be born there and grow up there but she likely lied about that, IMO. I think she had just visited Scottsdale before or had extended family there and was familiar enough she thought she could claim it as her home town. If she had been involved in a crime there she would not want to mention it as a place she had ever been, let alone a place she was from, IMO. I think we will find out she was hiding from a crime committed against her rather than her own criminal past. If you had any reason to suspect that she was involved with Knight (like he had another "girlfriend" that disappeared too) I could believe that she had been victimized by him and escaped when he went to prison, but I can't really see her as someone who committed a major crime like that (MOO).

Thanks for the welcome! Happy to be here. I agree that the scenario is very unlikely and there is no immediate connection, but I do still wonder if FLEK was witness to a terrible crime, or found herself at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person and feared so greatly for her life that she changed her identity. It's such a wild mystery in general.
 

sunnynz

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Thanks, Mrseeker. So they must have had to investigate the suicide. Perhaps she was not recognizable or perhaps it was just to match up her prints to the gun to make sure it was suicide.
Her namus says that her face was recognizable after death
 

sunnynz

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This is my first time posting on Websleuths, though I've been reading through the threads on the FLEK case for a long time now. Just never had anything meaningful to contribute! Bear with me on this one, it's a longshot but something to consider.

I came across the case of Deanna Criswell, a 16 year old girl who was found dead in Marana, AZ in 1987. There is a Websleuths forum for Criswell. The Wikipedia article for Deanna Criswell is a helpful summary of the case, too.

The suspected killer is William Ross Knight, who was 31 at the time. Both DC and WRK are from Spokane, WA – I think. The only William Ross Knight I found record of in Spokane was born in 1956, and I am merely operating under the assumption that this is him. WRK relocated to AZ at some point, while in a "relationship" with DC. He purchased a bus ticket for her to come down to AZ to live with him, but she was never heard from again. WRK was never charged for the murder, and apparently died in 2005.



I found the blurb above from 1988 or 1987 from this archived Arizona Republic issue.

Obviously this is a huge leap to connect this to FLEK. But I had been wondering if FLEK was an accessory to a crime, which was why she changed her identity and her appearance so drastically. I did kind of a lazy search about unsolved murders from 87/88 and that's how I came across DC. In reading a little bit about the case, any involvement on the part of FLEK seems unlikely as far as the murder goes, so I also wonder if this is the man she was escaping from. Her obit merely said that she was "from Scottsdale, AZ" (not Tucson, but AZ nevertheless.) If she had any connection to the crime, as an accomplice maybe, maybe WRK set her up with the identity change. She may have been a witness or privy to the crime, but was too scared of retaliation so she took "witness protection" into her own hands? Many possibilities.

Maybe there are so little connections here that to even bring it up is too out-there, but it piqued my curiosity about FLEK's possible criminal history. Obviously some similarities in location and timeline are here, but that's about it. If this seems like an avenue worth pursuing, maybe somebody with more records access than I have (I'm not a member of any of the big Ancestry sites, etc.) could take a look.
I agree that this story might not necessarily match up, but I do think you could be onto something with the idea that looking at news articles of crimes around that time could give clues to something FLEK was involved with. It's such a needle in a haystack type process though, hard to know where to start.

It makes me think - instead of her being listed as a 'missing person' could she have been listed as a 'wanted person' - like is there some way to search for people the police were looking for, even if her family hadn't reported her missing?
 

mrseeker

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I came across the case of Deanna Criswell, a 16 year old girl who was found dead in Marana, AZ in 1987. There is a Websleuths forum for Criswell. The Wikipedia article for Deanna Criswell is a helpful summary of the case, too.

The suspected killer is William Ross Knight, who was 31 at the time. Both DC and WRK are from Spokane, WA – I think. The only William Ross Knight I found record of in Spokane was born in 1956, and I am merely operating under the assumption that this is him. WRK relocated to AZ at some point, while in a "relationship" with DC. He purchased a bus ticket for her to come down to AZ to live with him, but she was never heard from again. WRK was never charged for the murder, and apparently died in 2005.
Welcome. I have looked for stories like this one that might explain why she did what she did at that time. The case you brought up does click a lot of boxes. Timeline, places, etc. Wonder if we can connect this killer with FLEK's past somehow. I would not be surprised if FLEK's real story had something like this.
 

sunnynz

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I'd love to hear more about your investigation into Mona/Monica Lisa Lincoln. Although I don't have a strong gut feeling about her initially, in my opinion she is the most similar-looking candidate to Lori we've seen and the timeline works (for what little we know about Mona, anyway). The 5'5" height doesn't really stress me out as there are so few details available that I'm inclined to take anything there is with a grain of salt anyway. The tattoos make it a bit confusing, but still. When I showed a side-by-side to my boyfriend and asked if he thought they could be the same person, he said, "no way. the one has tiny eyes, and the other one (LEK) has big eyes." Well, if that's the only difference, makeup definitely has to be taken into consideration. That old style of outlining right around both the tops and bottoms of your eyes with black eyeliner is a very well known makeup mistake that makes your eyes shrink into your head:

attachment.php


Keeping in mind that the one available picture of Mona definitely has this kind of makeup going on, I thought I'd edit makeup onto the more fresh-faced Lori for comparison, along with adjusting the colouring of the photos slightly to be a little more comparable in quality to the Mona photo. Having spent some time zooming in and staring at both faces, I think it's quite amazing - the position of the ears, spacing of her features, the lines beside her mouth and bags under their eyes are all identical in my opinion, much more than I was expecting.

attachment.php


I just wish we had some more photos and information about Mona, beyond those (possibly misleading) familysearch records (here and here) that suggested she might have been alive and well and living in California into the 2000's. Any ideas?
Looking at the family search link - the woman listed as a known associate with the initials KF seems like she must be Mona's sister. She lives in a small town in AZ and works in the aircraft industry. The town is not so far from Las Vegas, it would be interesting to know how long KF has lived in that town.

I can't find any record of family publicly searching for Mona - on forums etc to find any further info on circumstances. But likewise she doesn't seem to be still alive and well and in contact with family if their social media is anything to go by - there is no one on any of their friends lists who I think could be her.
 

mrseeker

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Looking at the family search link - the woman listed as a known associate with the initials KF seems like she must be Mona's sister. She lives in a small town in AZ and works in the aircraft industry. The town is not so far from Las Vegas, it would be interesting to know how long KF has lived in that town.

I can't find any record of family publicly searching for Mona - on forums etc to find any further info on circumstances. But likewise she doesn't seem to be still alive and well and in contact with family if their social media is anything to go by - there is no one on any of their friends lists who I think could be her.

What is the name of the town if you don't mind saying?
 

Gardener1850

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Looking at the family search link - the woman listed as a known associate with the initials KF seems like she must be Mona's sister. She lives in a small town in AZ and works in the aircraft industry. The town is not so far from Las Vegas, it would be interesting to know how long KF has lived in that town.

I can't find any record of family publicly searching for Mona - on forums etc to find any further info on circumstances. But likewise she doesn't seem to be still alive and well and in contact with family if their social media is anything to go by - there is no one on any of their friends lists who I think could be her.

I didn't get very far researching her family but you are correct that KF is her sister. She appears to be the youngest of at least 3 sisters and a brother--brother has same first name as her dad. Her father is RML, brother is RBL. Her mother is NEL. She has a sister with her mom's same name--NEL (it's in some records as NFL). Other sister not listed on the Los Angeles record is named Linda. I'm not certain who SJL is but I suspect she is a daughter from the mother's first marriage adopted by her second husband based on surnames she has in other public records. Monica's mother died in 2001 in Los Angeles and her father died in 2007 in Lake Havasu City, Mohave, Arizona. Both of her parents dying before social media was really big could be why they never posted about her on fb or a message board.
 

Gardener1850

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BTW, Monica's sister--the one mentioned in the above post with a name starting with L-- Her married name is Kennedy. I don't know if it was Kennedy before Monica went missing though. I have yet to find marriage records. I got distracted and never finished looking up Monica's case.
 
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