TX - Man shoots, kills burglars despite orders from 911 operator, 14 Nov 2007

[FLMom]

this is why in fl the robber has to be in your house.

Technically, yes.

Years ago, here in Florida, I had a stalker after I placed an ad in the newspaper. Didn't know at the time that all of the info that you put in a newspaper for different things ends up being read by inmate populations! We traced it to a jail, and the warden's quote was, "Well ma'am, you know they aren't in here for singing too loud in the choir on Sundays.". :furious: Suffice it to say, I was wasting his valuable time.

The local sheriff's dept had a different idea. They told me that if he even showed up on my property, to just shoot him and drag him partially over my threshold, and that would be that. So technically yes, but I've heard what I was told more than once.

This reminds me of a South Park episode, where the hunter guy was only going to shoot what attacked him. Then he sees this little bunny, and yells, "It's coming right after us!!" and blows it away. Overkill.

However, I have a feeling this guy is going to get off. I think that his capacity as the unofficial neighborhood watch commander is going to earn him a sympathetic jury. It's going to be hard to find twelve people that haven't had either their car, workplace or home burgled in their lives.

 

[nappy2]

they were trying to escape; that's why they got shot in the back.

I think the one was shot in the chest and the other one was shot in the side .

 

[Buzz Mills]

I think the one was shot in the chest and the other one was shot in the side .

I was being facetious nappy.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Joe Horn - Good Neighbor - Bad Shot - Helps Stop International Crime Ring

DPS was watching burglars shot by Horn

Even before their deaths prompted a series of heated debates about the use of deadly force, detectives at the Department of Public Safety had their eye on Diego Ortiz and Miguel Dejesus. The two were shot and killed by Joe Horn, a Pasadena man who thought they were burglarizing his neighbor’s home last month.

According to a DPS memo obtained by 11 News, the department was investigating the use of Puerto Rican birth certificates by Colombians seeking to obtain Texas driver’s licenses. Both Ortiz and Dejesus had applied for licenses. Dejesus listed his country of origin as Puerto Rico, but both men were Colombian.

Apparently, the DPS is investigating hundreds of immigrants who may have used illegal papers to get Texas licenses. But that’s not all. A much wider probe has been launched into an organized syndicate of Colombians who are engaged in illegal weapons sales and home break-ins – just like the one Ortiz and Dejesus were involved in last month in Pasadena. That day, Joe Horn and a shotgun stood in the way of the suspected thieves, but in many instances the suspects have gotten away.

The ATF, ICE and DPS have reportedly formed a task force to bring the crime wave to an end. The burglars are said to be very effective at what they do, conducting extensive surveillance on their targets before striking. Some of the suspects are extremely violent. The investigations have already led to several arrests.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou071204_tnt_pasadenaburglars.69d89aae.html

 

[Buzz Mills]

-bump-

 

[Rino]

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s279/beetle_bucket/NeighborhoodWatch.jpg?t=1196736713

On a more serious note. The artcle states... The two were shot and killed by Joe Horn, a Pasadena man who thought they were burglarizing his neighbor’s home last month....which is not true, he saw them exit the house and saw them with the goods and saw the broken windows they used to gain entry and exit the house - he KNEW they were burglarizing his neighbor's home.

 

[gman20001969]

Who knows what could have happened from this. But the bottom line is that he should have stayed in his home. He life wasn't threatened.

and you can't maim someone with a shotgun. If you're within ten yards of the shot, your chances of survival are slim to dead. Hell, if you weren't dead, you'd wish you were.

I live in Georgia in a busy growing county where on the occasion, there were strings of home invasions at one time or another. Let me tell you, you break into my house, you ain't leaving it in one piece. But if my neighbors house was broken into, I'd have no idea it was occuring. I barely know the faces of my neighbors...

 

[SadieMae]

Not in Texas he's not.

Who's to say those two who got killed burglarizing the neighbors house didn't have a rap sheet a mile long? Maybe they previously killed someone, we won't know unless the police decide to tell us.

Regardless of their record, or even them being caught in the burglary act...Joe Horn did not have the right to be their judge, jury & executioner. I hope he gets sentenced for at least voluntary manslaughter.

 

[nanandjim]

Right or wrong--I wouldn't indict the guy. Maybe, burglars and illegal aliens will think twice. I know that they will in that area if the grand jury refuses to indict him.

 

[NewMom2003]

Article from today.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/falkenberg/5355866.html

To some, he's a murderer. But to most of the hundreds of people who wrote me after my column Tuesday, he's a hero, worthy of a medal, a parade or even the mayor's office.

The Joe Horn case has touched a nerve in this community that goes far deeper than the Pasadena homeowner himself or his actions on that November afternoon.

Horn, a 61-year-old computer consultant, fatally shot two men who allegedly had just robbed his neighbor's house. Horn had called 911 when he heard glass shattering next door, but ignored a dispatcher's instructions to stay put and charged after the fleeing burglars with his shotgun before police could arrive.

Horn killed Miguel Antonio DeJesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, both of Houston, minutes after telling the dispatcher "I'm not going to let them get away with it" and "I'm gonna kill them."

 

[BirdieBoo]

Joe Horn - Good Neighbor - Bad Shot - Helps Stop International Crime Ring

DPS was watching burglars shot by Horn

Even before their deaths prompted a series of heated debates about the use of deadly force, detectives at the Department of Public Safety had their eye on Diego Ortiz and Miguel Dejesus. The two were shot and killed by Joe Horn, a Pasadena man who thought they were burglarizing his neighbor’s home last month.

According to a DPS memo obtained by 11 News, the department was investigating the use of Puerto Rican birth certificates by Colombians seeking to obtain Texas driver’s licenses. Both Ortiz and Dejesus had applied for licenses. Dejesus listed his country of origin as Puerto Rico, but both men were Colombian.

Apparently, the DPS is investigating hundreds of immigrants who may have used illegal papers to get Texas licenses. But that’s not all. A much wider probe has been launched into an organized syndicate of Colombians who are engaged in illegal weapons sales and home break-ins – just like the one Ortiz and Dejesus were involved in last month in Pasadena. That day, Joe Horn and a shotgun stood in the way of the suspected thieves, but in many instances the suspects have gotten away.

The ATF, ICE and DPS have reportedly formed a task force to bring the crime wave to an end. The burglars are said to be very effective at what they do, conducting extensive surveillance on their targets before striking. Some of the suspects are extremely violent. The investigations have already led to several arrests.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou071204_tnt_pasadenaburglars.69d89aae.html

I guess DPS wasn't watching them closely enough, if they were out burgling homes.

 

[georgiagirl]

Who knows what could have happened from this. But the bottom line is that he should have stayed in his home. He life wasn't threatened.

and you can't maim someone with a shotgun. If you're within ten yards of the shot, your chances of survival are slim to dead. Hell, if you weren't dead, you'd wish you were.

I live in Georgia in a busy growing county where on the occasion, there were strings of home invasions at one time or another. Let me tell you, you break into my house, you ain't leaving it in one piece. But if my neighbors house was broken into, I'd have no idea it was occuring. I barely know the faces of my neighbors...

I say shoot first, ask questions later...

 

[Bee Happy]

This man is NOT a hero in my opinion.

Anyway, here is the 911 call: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jqLie6-Y0

 

[nappy2]

Why does everybody bring up the 911 call ?
The 911 operator is getting paid to tell people to stay in their house and not to do anything.Thats easy for somebody on the phone that is not there in that situation to say!
I think Mr Horn did what he thought was right and if I was in his shoes I would of done the same thing[I THINK ATLEAST}

 

[Maybe So]

Same sort of thing happened here once. A man shot a young kid who was stealing some money and cigarettes from his restaruant in the middle of the night.

The punishment for stealing something is not instant death.

If you are threatened it is one thing....but, it is not ok to shoot people just because they are stealing something. Sheesh.

What if someday it is your kid doing something stupid? should they pay with their life? No way.

He should have called the cops, maybe video taped them, but if no one was being attacked or threatened then he should not just go kill someone...not even a criminal. Everyone has the right to a trial and a fair sentence to match their crime and in my book stealing something doesn't equal death.

 

[Maybe So]

Thanks for the links to the Racine case. I didn't get a chance to look for them.

I understand this man was trying to protect his neighbor's property, but he pretty much told the 911 he was going to kill these men. I think he went a little overboard.

I agree. What he did was worse than what they did. Should their families be able to just shoot him without a trial now?

I wouldn't want a neighbor who could kill people over some things in a bag. What if he misinterpreted someone forgetting their key and climbing in their own window some day?

 

[believe09]

I agree. What he did was worse than what they did. Should their families be able to just shoot him without a trial now?

I wouldn't want a neighbor who could kill people over some things in a bag. What if he misinterpreted someone forgetting their key and climbing in their own window some day?

Thank you MabeSo-this was the point I meant to make with my previous rambling post...nicely said.

 

[believe09]

Sorry for the double post-but what I also find interesting is the previously quoted article with the DPS info-not a very subtle or objective statement clearly trying to create the idea that the shooter was within his rights...after all the alleged Columbian gang which the victims/burglars may or may not have been a part of has been extremely violent in the past...sheesh. How could he have known their country of origin when he decided to shoot?

 

[reportertype]

I agree. What he did was worse than what they did. Should their families be able to just shoot him without a trial now?

I wouldn't want a neighbor who could kill people over some things in a bag. What if he misinterpreted someone forgetting their key and climbing in their own window some day?

As someone who has done this (I have been locked out of my own house twice) I completely agree. This dude is no hero. It sounds to me like he saw a chance to shoot somebody and took it.

 

[crypto6]

I agree. What he did was worse than what they did. Should their families be able to just shoot him without a trial now?

I wouldn't want a neighbor who could kill people over some things in a bag. What if he misinterpreted someone forgetting their key and climbing in their own window some day?

It's not just about the value of material possessions versus that of human life; it’s about the value of being able to live free of the fear of violence in your or your neighbor’s home. I don’t agree with what he did ( I think he should have called the police and only exposed himself to make sure the perps could be identified), but to characterize this as a killing for material value is misguided; this is death for what this man perceived as a basic freedom worth killing or dying for.

Crypto6