TX - Mass Shooting at Fort Hood, 5 November 2009 #1

Discussion in 'Rampage Killings and Terrorist Attacks' started by momtective, Nov 5, 2009.

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  1. Woe.be.gone

    Woe.be.gone Well-Known Member

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    Why the hell did he JOIN the Army then? Answer that.

    I can hate him if I want to and I want to right now. I'm not going to kill anybody. I don't want to "understand" bad people anymore. Let's give them their just deserves. I'm feeling NO sympathy for him :loser: at the moment.

    Adding - I see now it's the fault of the Army. I agree the Army authorities should not have to be politically correct and appease every belief (to the exclusion of Jesus) and not step on anyone's toes lest the "different one" cries out prejudice, etc. Let some other country take in all the radicals of the world - freedom does not mean degradation.
     


  2. butwhatif?

    butwhatif? Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what his motives for joining were and I don't have sympathy for him either. Although I do think its awful that he was harrassed because of his religious beliefs.

    I do have sympathy for those that were killed and injured and those who had to witness the shooting spree, and wish they had've been protected by getting this guy OUT instead of forcing him to stay when his belief system and psych issues were well known.
    An attempt to understand him is not to excuse him, it is purely about prevention. I think we would all like to prevent the murder of innocent people.
    Please understand that I'm not trying to tell you how to feel. Like I said, its natural to feel angry following something like this.
    JMO

    ETA- Don't know if this has already been posted, but this article is a good read.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/a-muslim-soldiers-view-fr_b_348973.html
     
  3. STEADFAST

    STEADFAST New Member

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    I don't believe this guy was taunted about being a Muslim. He was a Major and an M.D. Who taunted him? Lieutenant Colonels? Other physicians?
     
  4. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    He is a psychiatrist, not a combat soldier. He would not have been killing anyone.
    I agree with those who think his choice of location says something about his motive for these murders. He chose a deployment station.
    If think his obvious planning negates the possibility that this was a result of psychosis. I don't buy the PTSD excuse. No one should be harassed for any reason, but that should not be enough to cause PTSD which is usually a result of witnessing or being the victim of horrible atrocities.
    Is he crazy? Possibly to some degree but he knew what he was doing. Why did he choose to kill innocent soldiers? Why didn't he just kill himself? These types of mass murderers want revenge, they want notoriety, they want to be seen as having done something "big". How pathetic.
    I feel sorry for all the Muslim or middle eastern soldiers in our armed forces whose lives this jacka$$ just made all the more harder. I'm sure it's not easy being Muslim in the U.S. armed forces today. But I know there are many such soldiers who are proud Americans and are serving their country by giving 100%. Now this character comes along and creates a cloud of suspicion against all of them.
    Why wasn't this guy screened better? Why wasn't he allowed out of the military or discharged based on his seeming loyalties? I think it is simple. We are in the middle of two bloated and difficult wars with no end in sight and we just don't have the manpower needed to deal with it. The U.S. armed forces have no one to spare. I don't know the solution to that, at this point. If we get out now we are leaving very volatile territories ripe for the extremists to take over. And now, we have 45 less that were so desperately needed.
     
  5. Muffet

    Muffet Autocorrect is my worst enema

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    I would never hate all Muslims because of this man's actions. I do hate seeing accusations of hate in admonishments to stifle reasonable observations and justifiable anger.

    Forced denial only creates more resentment, even if hidden under the surface for a time.

    Being too cowed by PC to act on their observations about this man (see reports like this one) and walking on eggshells around the problem helped keep this man in the position he was in and ultimately got those soldiers killed. IMO

    With the issues he demonstrated even in med school, I don't think he should have been put through to his MD at all.

    :twocents:
     
  6. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I did wonder about that as well. he's not a common foot soldier among a bunch of 20 year olds. However, I heard one Muslim ex-soldier, also a physician, who says the envirnoment can be very cliquish and isolating for those that don't "belong". I just don't care, though. I mean, I guess I care as far as preventing something like this from happening again, but I don't know how preventable mass murders are. I need an education about that. And, I just cannot find a reasonable excuse for killing innocent people, willfully and with malice. There was no reason to take others with him to wherever he thought he was going.
    If it was due to some extreme, jihadist view, that's very scary because that makes pretty much all middle eastern or Muslim Americans seem suspect. If you can't trust a U.S. armed forces officer, who is a psychiatrist. Who can you trust? He gives a bad name to an entire group of Americans who do not deserve it. I wonder if the extremists think about that when they get involved in the things they do. Do they care about all the regular Muslims who just want a house, a job a family and a quiet life in the United States? Thanks alot, man. You not only murdered a bunch of innocent people and destroyed your own life, you also just screwed your own people.
     
  7. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Being an opponent of the war and deeming oneself Muslim first and American second has no bearing on whether a person should be a doctor. Just switch Christian with Muslim and you might see what I mean. Many expect people to value their faith over their nationality and Islam istelf is not the problem.
    However, as this guy was an OFFICER IN THE MILITARY, his anti-war views should have been closely examined. But, as I said above, it is a question of stretched resources. The military can use every single body it can and it's still far short of what is needed. Obviously mentally ill soldiers are sent into, or kept in, combat, every day as a result of this. Remember the shooting at the mental health center a while back, in Afghanistan (I think)?
     
  8. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Taking a hard look at this case, I don't think this has anything to do with true mental illness. It may have been an act of terrorism. I say that in part due to his views and the fact that he yelled "Allah Akbar" when killing everyone. God is great? Not usually what a revenge-killer/crazy mass murderer yells when killing people.
     
  9. STEADFAST

    STEADFAST New Member

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    Sounds a bit like the kind of thing family annihilators might say to their families before they slaughter them.
     
  10. Woe.be.gone

    Woe.be.gone Well-Known Member

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    Some people hate Americans. They hate us for taking the side of Israel. No one can deny it - it's true. Hate, hate, hate, hate - they spend their whole lives hating and trying to get what belongs to others versus making something of what they already have. :loser: It'll never end. That's how I feel today anyway.

    What does it matter what you or I believe if we are civil to one another? I have participated in many groups in different parts of the world where we have done this and have taken an interest in the other's culture, beliefs, heritage, etc. We all are a product of our environments to some degree. But all of this killing, hating and madness is too much. I don't get it at all and - well, it has to do with power, poverty and withholding freedoms from people - but why does any powerful person want to spend his life this way? God does not author this behavior - no way, no how. But, God reserves the right to judge, not I. I can have an opinion though and this guy did not help to win converts to his religion.
     
  11. Muffet

    Muffet Autocorrect is my worst enema

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    Stretched resources are definitely a problem, as are stress and PTSD. :( I just think they are beside the point in this case, and people use them to distract us from the issues they want us to ignore.

    In this case, I believe the real problem was with his religious views and loyalties, and people didn't report or act on all the red flags they should have, because they were afraid of such a touchy subject.

    We need a balance between bigotry and political correctness. I think most of us are in that balanced center and should stop letting the vocal minorities screw everything up. ;)
     
  12. Texas Mist

    Texas Mist Retired WS Staff

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    Live streaming video from Fort Hood vigil on statesman.com home page now


    ETA

    It's making me cry -- nurse talking about experience in ER yesterday right now
     
  13. passionflower

    passionflower Just 1 tip to find a killer

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    current moon phase is at 79% full.........in the Waning Gibbious at 7:22pm
    so yesterday it was still alittle fuller........
     
  14. Texas Mist

    Texas Mist Retired WS Staff

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    is the wobble moon phase over, passionflower? almost over??

    please say it is.
     
  15. butwhatif?

    butwhatif? Well-Known Member

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    There is at least one documented incident.....

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_go_ot/us_fort_hood_shooting_suspect
     
  16. Silk

    Silk Active Member

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    Warning: Rant below

    I applaud each and every poster here who is a member of our military, a spouse, parent, in-law and friend of our military. I pray for each and every one of you who make sacrifices for my family and me. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

    Have you seen ONE country that our soldiers are fighting in to help their people step up and send a message in the past 24 hours to the US men and women in Fort Hood to say, "We support you. We appreciate you and our hearts go out to you?" No?

    I say lets send every non-US citizen back to his/her own homeland. If he/she doesn't wish to go home, then find an island in the ocean and send them there. If you ARE a US citizen and you don't want to support your homeland, you, too, can ride the boat. I don't care where the heck you come from and your higher power is my God, your Allah, Jehovah or the Easter Bunny, and you get tagged as having expressed ANY ideations of religious fanaticism that causes you to think of maiming and killing innocent people, ship your azz there, too. You can all take it out on one another. We'll bring our men and women in uniform who are out trying to save countries that don't want us there anyway, back home and they can serve our borders to help keep the rest of the world OUT of our homeland.

    If a person says, "I changed my mind, I want out of the military", cut them loose and offer them a ride to said island. If your heart isn't in serving the committment you made to our government, then we shouldn't want you, either.

    If not allowing Mr. Hasan to cut his time short in a military that his heart was no longer in was due to the $300,000 or so it costs us to educate him, it would have been a he&& of a lot cheaper to take a loss than the loss of our innocent soldiers and the expense it will cost you and me to defend Major Hasan, recover and rehabilitate the ones injured and then keep Major Hasan alive in military prison or infirmary until the year 2050 before we execute him. Looks to me like letting him out of the military would have been a real bargain!

    I'll see you after my TO.
     
  17. sniperacer

    sniperacer Former Member

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    Umm, yes it is! Have we all forgotten the lesson of 9/11? How about the war? What religious group do the people that are trying to kill our troops belong too? Christians? Maybe Jews? The Buddhists? No, it is 100% a subset of Islam/Muslim.

    If you are on a plane, or a crowded area, and someone yells "Allah Akbar", you better get over any political correctness you may have and do something.
     
  18. krazykidz

    krazykidz New Member

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    what senseless destruction this egomaniac caused!!! he was bullied? what, is he 8 like my youngest kid? a psychiatrist without coping skills? again, physician, heal thyself!!

    6 out of the 13 of these priceless honorable murdered men and women have been named. i cannot imagine the grief engulfing their families. a couple of them just enlisted last year, one was about 50 and a nurse only wanting to help his fellow soldiers, one wanted to see the world, one was newly pregnant for goodnesss sake. oh what a shanda
     
  19. SuziQ

    SuziQ Well-Known Member

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    A real life nightmare situation in the modern world. "Allah Akbar" is definitely a battle cry for Islam and Muslim extremists. If I heard that, I'd be pretty sure the odds of me coming out alive weren't good.

    Anyone remember the commercial pilot who brought his jet down? IIRC, he kept chanting Allah Akbar.
     
  20. WholeLottaRosie

    WholeLottaRosie Dancing on a moonbeam!

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    You know, I really feel for all those who have to care for the shooter.
     
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