Found Deceased TX - Michael Chambers, 70, Hunt County, 10 March 2017 #6

[JazzTune]

I'm going to purely speculate re: forensics on the gun. I'd bet that police did look at it and they could easily tell right away if it had been fired very recently. I believe that gun was hung exactly in it's place and nothing at all was disturbed in that shop, so investigators deemed it not necessary to take. I do think they took initial blood samples from the floor and do think they bagged and took the wooden dowel.

I also very strongly agree they should have done a whole lot more from the get-go, forensically.

One would think so - that they would have bagged and took the wooden dowel right away.

But actually no. According to our VI, Pmerle00, when she was asked about it, here is what she answered ( 8/14/17, post # 80 on Thread 3 )

"They took the dowel, but not the first day. I believe my uncle noticed it, or maybe one of the car show guys, and brought it up so they came out and collected it. They missed it in their "processing" of the scene."


Pmerle00 told us later in post # 87, on 8/14/17 that the workshop was not treated as a crime scene.

"No - it was NOT taped off, it was NOT secured. Which is one of our primary issues with HCSO - they seem to have mishandled this from the beginning and maintain their position that they won't call this a crime."

I believe she summed it up well, and this is the reason HCSO is insisting this was a suicide. They decided that from the very beginning. They never did their job correctly, so why would we expect them to backtrack, and call it a crime now?

Botched it from the get-go.

MC's family deserves so much better than this. MC himself deserves so much better than this!


JMO

 

[ocgrad]

I'm going to purely speculate re: forensics on the gun. I'd bet that police did look at it and they could easily tell right away if it had been fired very recently. I believe that gun was hung exactly in it's place and nothing at all was disturbed in that shop, so investigators deemed it not necessary to take. I do think they took initial blood samples from the floor and do think they bagged and took the wooden dowel.

I also very strongly agree they should have done a whole lot more from the get-go, forensically.

I just don't think they treated it like a potential crime scene, even though they said they suspected foul play, their actions didn't match their words. I haven't found an article yet although I believe I have read in the past that it is normal to take weapons at the scene, secure them and take into evidence. Even if they smelled it and made a judgement that it had not recently been fired I would think they would take it to secure it. There was blood, there was a gun near the blood and they left it right there. That seems weird to me. Can you imagine the work to try to find casings in the shop? Of course they didn't do that either. Is that because they brought in lights to check for the presence of gunpowder residue at the scene that very night? That would have been pretty impressive police work, but I don't think that happened either. Seems like a gun shot is a fairly common cause for blood at the site of a possible abduction and murder. Wonder why they neglected to pursue that basic thing.
ETA: I don't suspect that gun was used. Not at this point with all we have found and discussed. But I think that night at the scene someone should have routinely taken it to secure it since they supposedly did not know what had happened to MC.

 

[flute4peace]

What if.....

Someone wanted to stage the scene

What if.....

Someone rendered him unconscious

What if.....

Someone with appropriate experience drew blood in a syringe and made droplets on the floor (I've always felt they were too perfect)

What if....

Someone picked up the dowel not realizing they still had blood on their gloves.

Too far-fetched?

 

[ocgrad]

One would think so - that they would have bagged and took the wooden dowel right away.

But actually no. According to our VI, Pmerle00, when she was asked about it, here is what she answered ( 8/14/17, post # 80 on Thread 3 )

"They took the dowel, but not the first day. I believe my uncle noticed it, or maybe one of the car show guys, and brought it up so they came out and collected it. They missed it in their "processing" of the scene."


Pmerle00 told us later in post # 87, on 8/14/17 that the workshop was not treated as a crime scene.

"No - it was NOT taped off, it was NOT secured. Which is one of our primary issues with HCSO - they seem to have mishandled this from the beginning and maintain their position that they won't call this a crime."

I believe she summed it up well, and this is the reason HCSO is insisting this was a suicide. They decided that from the very beginning! They never did their job correctly, so why would we expect them to backtrack, and call it a crime now?

Botched it from the get-go.

MC's family deserves so much better than this. MC himself deserves so much better than this!


JMO

JT, our posts go hand in hand!

 

[ocgrad]

What if.....

Someone wanted to stage the scene

What if.....

Someone rendered him unconscious

What if.....

Someone with appropriate experience drew blood in a syringe and made droplets on the floor (I've always felt they were too perfect)

What if....

Someone picked up the dowel not realizing they still had blood on their gloves.

Too far-fetched?

The VI who saw the blood said it looked staged to her.
Some professions have routine access to a wheelchair which makes transporting someone easy. Seems odd for those of us who don't use one routinely but could be normal for people in that profession.
My dad worked on cars and he always had a dowel handy for some hoods that lack a mechanism to hold them open. It was sometimes left lying right on the fender if he was frequently working on it. I think it accidentally being knocked off and picked up getting the blood smear sounds logical.

 

[jellybean96]

The VI who saw the blood said it looked staged to her.
Some professions have routine access to a wheelchair which makes transporting someone easy. Seems odd for those of us who don't use one routinely but could be normal for people in that profession.
My dad worked on cars and he always had a dowel handy for some hoods that lack a mechanism to hold them open. It was sometimes left lying right on the fender if he was frequently working on it. I think it accidentally being knocked off and picked up getting the blood smear sounds logical.

If only someone fit this description that was involved in the case..... :thinking:

 

[SavetheQueen]

What if.....

Someone wanted to stage the scene

What if.....

Someone rendered him unconscious

What if.....

Someone with appropriate experience drew blood in a syringe and made droplets on the floor (I've always felt they were too perfect)

What if....

Someone picked up the dowel not realizing they still had blood on their gloves.

Too far-fetched?

Not far fetched at all in my book.


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[JazzTune]

JT, our posts go hand in hand!

Thank you, I'm honored to be on the same wave length with you. I so appreciate your thought-provoking posts on every angle of this case.

However, you are more objective than I am. I've already stated I get tunnel vision, and can get lost in rabbit holes rather quickly.

I want to see the big picture, but the big picture here? Looking uglier and uglier.

The HCSO did not secure the scene in any way, missed vital evidence, did not even investigate MC's disappearance as a crime at all.

Yet still have the audacity to insist MC committed suicide.

MC and his family deserved an open, and impartial investigation. One that considered all angles, and only ruled any of them out on the basis of factual evidence.

They were owed that! Why was that not done? Why was the decision made to not investigate it as a crime from the beginning? The very beginning! Who made that decision? Why?!

I wish so badly I could confront SM and ask him how would he feel if this was done to his loved one?

Or how would he feel if, let's say he went to a doctor with some symptoms, and the doctor told him right then and there that he had a terminal disease. Case closed. No x-rays, no blood work, no further testing or even referrals to a specialist. Just an opinion with no real proof.

I venture to say that SM would demand more from that doctor. And rightfully so. No one should be treated like that. Even if the doctor's diagnosis would turn out to be correct, the diagnosis needs to be backed by some evidence. Other diseases need to be ruled out.

Yet, here is the HCSO basically doing the same thing to MC's family. "Diagnosing" suicide. Where is the proof for any of it? How could they rule out a crime when they never investigated it as such?

Oh, I know I must be sounding like the rabid town crier, marching up and down the street, ringing bells, wearing a sandwich board, and screaming for justice.

I do apologize for my over-the-top ranting, but this case has made me angrier on a totally different level than any other!

I've followed many cases here since I registered and many more when I was a long-time lurker. I've seen LE drop the ball at times in many of those other cases.

But this is the first one where LE never even bothered to pick up the ball in the first place!

How do they even dare to face MC's family?



JMO

 

[Hazelnutty]

My current working theory: Attempted staging to look like a suicide. Someones? messed up and MC was removed and his body & evidence hidden. Dowel used as a hood prop previously, was used on this day to push trigger on long gun by MC hand. This is sloppy , but I'm working on it. I believe he was killed in a way that could not be blamed on suicide & they? had to improvise.

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[kidetect22]

My current working theory: Attempted staging to look like a suicide. Someones? messed up and MC was removed and his body & evidence hidden. Dowel used as a hood prop previously, was used on this day to push trigger on long gun by MC hand. This is sloppy , but I'm working on it. I believe he was killed in a way that could not be blamed on suicide & they? had to improvise.

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Nice theory !!! Very possible.... really anything at this point for me is more possible than him riding a bike and jumping off a bridge ... it really took that long for SM to come up w that crap ??!! Still angers me he thinks we are that stupid ...

 

[Tripod]

Thank you, I'm honored to be on the same wave length with you. I so appreciate your thought-provoking posts on every angle of this case.

However, you are more objective than I am. I've already stated I get tunnel vision, and can get lost in rabbit holes rather quickly.

I want to see the big picture, but the big picture here? Looking uglier and uglier.

The HCSO did not secure the scene in any way, missed vital evidence, did not even investigate MC's disappearance as a crime at all.

Yet still have the audacity to insist MC committed suicide.

MC and his family deserved an open, and impartial investigation. One that considered all angles, and only ruled any of them out on the basis of factual evidence.

They were owed that! Why was that not done? Why was the decision made to not investigate it as a crime from the beginning? The very beginning! Who made that decision? Why?!

I wish so badly I could confront SM and ask him how would he feel if this was done to his loved one?

Or how would he feel if, let's say he went to a doctor with some symptoms, and the doctor told him right then and there that he had a terminal disease. Case closed. No x-rays, no blood work, no further testing or even referrals to a specialist. Just an opinion with no real proof.

I venture to say that SM would demand more from that doctor. And rightfully so. No one should be treated like that. Even if the doctor's diagnosis would turn out to be correct, the diagnosis needs to be backed by some evidence. Other diseases need to be ruled out.

Yet, here is the HCSO basically doing the same thing to MC's family. "Diagnosing" suicide. Where is the proof for any of it? How could they rule out a crime when they never investigated it as such?

Oh, I know I must be sounding like the rabid town crier, marching up and down the street, ringing bells, wearing a sandwich board, and screaming for justice.

I do apologize for my over-the-top ranting, but this case has made me angrier on a totally different level than any other!

I've followed many cases here since I registered and many more when I was a long-time lurker. I've seen LE drop the ball at times in many of those other cases.

But this is the first one where LE never even bothered to pick up the ball in the first place!

How do they even dare to face MC's family?



JMO

I get angry too, but we have to remember that HCSO did say that suicide theory is one of several, and there is no proof of any, yet. I do fault them for mishandling and terrible communications.

 

[Razz]

About that firearm. (Whatever it was).

Where did MC keep his firearms? Were they locked in a case in his home or in the shop?

What are Texas rules re this? I can't imagine it would be hanging on a wall, even up high because of the 4 grandchildren.

If the VI is correct and it was by the door, why would MC leave that in such a vulnerable place. Unless he knew that BC would have the keys and only she could get in the garage and she'd see it and secure it?

I suspect she was a stickler about weapons being in the house unless locked up. I'll bet she/he wasn't happy about them being unsecured in the shop too.

So where did the firearm come from? The house or the shop? A locked storage case or on the wall?

What do most Texans do with their firearms?

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[JazzTune]

I get angry too, but we have to remember that HCSO did say that suicide theory is one of several, and there is no proof of any, yet. I do fault them for mishandling and terrible communications.

I appreciate your comments. ( In fact, if I should ever end up accused of anything gruesome here on WS, I want you in my corner! )

However, if there truly are other theories, what could they be? I see only two categories. Suicide or criminal.

Now, if criminal? Wow. Wide open for investigative theories! Just reading here turns up a multitude of well-thought out methods and motives.

But no. HCSO ran with the suicide theory.

Why? Why suicide instead of the criminal theory?

Oh, that's right. They never investigated it as a criminal case. So that was off the board right away. Scratch that.

Well, there you go then. Suicide won out. No competition.

With all due respect, I wouldn't term HCSO's behavior as mishandling.

Mishandling is the postman putting a neighbor's letter in my mailbox by mistake. Not trashing his entire delivery load in a dumpster somewhere!

That is effectively what HCSO has done to MC's disappearance, in my opinion. The damage is irrevocable. The clock can't be turned back. Timely evidence was lost.

Such a gross dereliction of duty to MC and his family.

A rat is a rat! Not a misguided mouse.

The most optimal outcome now would be for MC's disappearance to be turned over, and managed under a new competent LE jurisdiction.

MC's family is owed nothing less.

( ETA: Obviously, I have been somewhat sarcastic here, but it's not directed at you at all. Only the situation...)


JMO

 

[flute4peace]

Amen, Sister!!!

I still think there's an elephant that nobody really knows about. And I think it's a much bigger elephant than this specific case.

I appreciate your comments. ( In fact, if I should ever end up accused of anything gruesome here on WS, I want you in my corner! )

However, if there truly are other theories, what could they be? I see only two categories. Suicide or criminal.

Now, if criminal? Wow. Wide open for investigative theories! Just reading here turns up a multitude of well-thought out methods and motives.

But no. HCSO ran with the suicide theory.

Why? Why suicide instead of the criminal theory?

Oh, that's right. They never investigated it as a criminal case. So that was off the board right away. Scratch that.

Well, there you go then. Suicide won out. No competition.

With all due respect, I wouldn't term HCSO's behavior as mishandling.

Mishandling is the postman putting a neighbor's letter in my mailbox by mistake. Not trashing his entire delivery load in a dumpster somewhere!

That is effectively what HCSO has done to MC's disappearance, in my opinion. The damage is irrevocable. The clock can't be turned back. Timely evidence was lost.

Such a gross dereliction of duty to MC and his family.

A rat is a rat! Not a misguided mouse.

The most optimal outcome now would be for MC's disappearance to be turned over, and managed under a new competent LE jurisdiction.

MC's family is owed nothing less.

( ETA: Obviously, I have been somewhat sarcastic here, but it's not directed at you at all. Only the situation...)


JMO

 

[ocgrad]

About that firearm. (Whatever it was).

Where did MC keep his firearms? Were they locked in a case in his home or in the shop?

What are Texas rules re this? I can't imagine it would be hanging on a wall, even up high because of the 4 grandchildren.

If the VI is correct and it was by the door, why would MC leave that in such a vulnerable place. Unless he knew that BC would have the keys and only she could get in the garage and she'd see it and secure it?

I suspect she was a stickler about weapons being in the house unless locked up. I'll bet she/he wasn't happy about them being unsecured in the shop too.

So where did the firearm come from? The house or the shop? A locked storage case or on the wall?

What do most Texans do with their firearms?

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It varies. We keep a loaded handgun available where we can use it if needed in a nightstand. Other guns are kept in a locked safe. If children come over or anyone we don't know we put the handgun away so that we can still retrieve it if needed quickly but not so it can be seen or accessed by children, the top shelf in the closet.
If MC doesn't have a locking cabinet in the house I can see keeping a rifle locked in the shop since kids wouldn't be in there without him going first. That would be normal. It would probably be the first thing he would pick up to put out of reach when his grandkids come over. A handgun can be easily put in a place kids can't see or reach, the top chest of drawers, top shelf of the closet, unloaded as well. But a long arm can't be stored like that so keeping it in the shop seems right to me.
Also kids are taught not to touch, seriously not to touch and as they get older it becomes a normal thing for them to know it's there but not pay much attention to it. As his granddaughter did.
It hasn't been mentioned that I remember if MC or BC owned other guns. If they do then they were not missing or also were not considered worth checking and securing in evidence. Apparently MC did not carry a gun normally since it was not mentioned that it was missing with him. My husband carries a gun so frequently if he were missing and his gun remained behind I would know something was wrong. He would never leave on his own without it. He might forget his cell phone or his wallet but not his gun.
Many people that don't carry one on them keep one in their vehicle. You do not have to have a license to have one in your vehicle. I'm surprised he wouldn't have had one at least kept in the truck. Most former LE and FF I have known want to at least be prepared to protect others in an emergency.
They lived in a area where meth is out of control and burglaries were not uncommon and he had a lot of valuable tools there so when he was out there working I can see wanting some protection especially if he doesn't carry at all.

 

[ocgrad]

My current working theory: Attempted staging to look like a suicide. Someones? messed up and MC was removed and his body & evidence hidden. Dowel used as a hood prop previously, was used on this day to push trigger on long gun by MC hand. This is sloppy , but I'm working on it. I believe he was killed in a way that could not be blamed on suicide & they? had to improvise.

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Wow! That's good! Really!

 

[stjrussell]

About that firearm. (Whatever it was).

Where did MC keep his firearms? Were they locked in a case in his home or in the shop?

What are Texas rules re this? I can't imagine it would be hanging on a wall, even up high because of the 4 grandchildren.

If the VI is correct and it was by the door, why would MC leave that in such a vulnerable place. Unless he knew that BC would have the keys and only she could get in the garage and she'd see it and secure it?

I suspect she was a stickler about weapons being in the house unless locked up. I'll bet she/he wasn't happy about them being unsecured in the shop too.

So where did the firearm come from? The house or the shop? A locked storage case or on the wall?

What do most Texans do with their firearms?

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We live in Texas , in the country and we keep guns in a safe but we also keep on one out in case of snakes, varmints or intruders so a gun being out in his shop isn't too far fetched to me.

 

[Razz]

It varies. We keep a loaded handgun available where we can use it if needed in a nightstand. Other guns are kept in a locked safe. If children come over or anyone we don't know we put the handgun away so that we can still retrieve it if needed quickly but not so it can be seen or accessed by children, the top shelf in the closet.
If MC doesn't have a locking cabinet in the house I can see keeping a rifle locked in the shop since kids wouldn't be in there without him going first. That would be normal. It would probably be the first thing he would pick up to put out of reach when his grandkids come over. A handgun can be easily put in a place kids can't see or reach, the top chest of drawers, top shelf of the closet, unloaded as well. But a long arm can't be stored like that so keeping it in the shop seems right to me.
Also kids are taught not to touch, seriously not to touch and as they get older it becomes a normal thing for them to know it's there but not pay much attention to it. As his granddaughter did.
It hasn't been mentioned that I remember if MC or BC owned other guns. If they do then they were not missing or also were not considered worth checking and securing in evidence. Apparently MC did not carry a gun normally since it was not mentioned that it was missing with him. My husband carries a gun so frequently if he were missing and his gun remained behind I would know something was wrong. He would never leave on his own without it. He might forget his cell phone or his wallet but not his gun.
Many people that don't carry one on them keep one in their vehicle. You do not have to have a license to have one in your vehicle. I'm surprised he wouldn't have had one at least kept in the truck. Most former LE and FF I have known want to at least be prepared to protect others in an emergency.
They lived in a area where meth is out of control and burglaries were not uncommon and he had a lot of valuable tools there so when he was out there working I can see wanting some protection especially if he doesn't carry at all.

That was something we briefly considered for a while. Some random meth heads. Nothing appeared to be missing though but some cash maybe and his d.l.

Thanks for the info re firearms. I wish the family could tell us a bit about where he normally kept his.

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[Razz]

The bike: if there was a bike, chances are the tires needed air. I usually have to fill my tires if the bike has been sitting awhile. I have a hand pump and one of those loud air machines that needs to be plugged in. (It will fill my car tires).

IF MC rode a bike, I would think a pump or even some bike tools would be out on the counter. I'm sure he has one of those air machines in his shop.

Just wondering if some bike tools were out. Or an air generator out of place.
Or maybe a small can of oil for brakes or chain?

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[SavetheQueen]

We live in Texas , in the country and we keep guns in a safe but we also keep on one out in case of snakes, varmints or intruders so a gun being out in his shop isn't too far fetched to me.

WTX here. And I have one within reach at any given location at the house. Snakes, tarantulas, methheads... Shoot first, and ask questions later. Should be our State motto.


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