Found Safe TX - Shamali Flores, 6 wks, Houston, 19 Dec 2017 *mom found slain* *Arrest*

[HMSHood]

This reminds me of Lisa Montgomery case because she killed Bobbie Jo Stinnett and took her baby out of the womb to claim as her own.

 

[MsMarple]

This is so incredibly sad. There are no winners here, except the baby.... Mental illness raises it’s sad, scary, pathetic face.

I'm not completely convinced that mental illness is a factor in at least some cases, and maybe not in this one either. According to information compiled from analyses of 308 cases which occurred between 1983 and January 2017 the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children presented some characteristics of a typical infant abductor:

--Usually a female of childbearing age who appears pregnant.
--Most likely compulsive; most often relies on manipulation, lying and deception.
--Frequently indicates she has lost a baby or is incapable of having one.
--Often married or cohabitating; companion’s desire for a baby or the abductor’s desire to provide her companion with “his” baby may be the motivation for the abduction.
--Usually lives in the community where the abduction takes place.
--Frequently initially visits nursery and maternity units at more than one health care facility prior to the abduction; asks detailed questions about procedures and the maternity floor layout; frequently uses a fire exit stairwell for her escape; and may also try to abduct from the home setting.
--Usually plans the abduction, but does not necessarily target a specific infant; frequently seizes any opportunity present to abduct a baby.
--Frequently impersonates a nurse or other allied health care personnel.
--Often becomes familiar with health care staff members, staff member work routines and victim parents.
--Often demonstrates a capability to provide care to the baby once the abduction occurs, within her emotional and physical abilities.

In addition an abductor who abducts from the home setting (is):
--More likely to be single while claiming to have a partner.
--Often targets a mother whom she may find by visiting health care facilities and tries to meet the target family.
--Often plans the abduction and brings a weapon, although the weapon may not be used.
--Often impersonates a health care or social services professional when visiting the home.

http://www.missingkids.com/theissues/infantabductions

Furthermore, Cathy Nahirny, a senior analyst on infant abduction cases at the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children and John Rabun, executive vice president and chief operating officer had this to say in a 2011 interview with CNN:

In these types of cases when a woman snatches a baby, the typical perpetrator is not motivated by maternal envy or a burning desire for motherhood. It's usually her desire to hang on to a boyfriend or husband in a deteriorating relationship, experts said. To do that, she feels she must produce a baby.

"It sounds bizarre," said Cathy Nahirny, a senior analyst on infant abduction cases at the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children. "It's to hold on to the male partner."

The reasoning may sound like a plot line from a soap opera, but the aftermath is tragic.
...
"Because she has already announced to her male partner that she's pregnant, the relationship may be warming up," said Nahirny, who has examined hundreds of similar cases. "She's afraid to tell him she has had a miscarriage. She has it in her head [that] he's going to leave."

The phenomenon transcends race and socio-economic status. The woman is likely to be of childbearing age and often overweight, according to the infant abductor profile used by the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children. The profiles were formed after examining traits and police reports.

"The person is of low-self esteem, who either had a baby or lost a baby, had some kind of medical complication where she couldn't have a baby," said Jeff Aldridge, the president of Security Assessments International, which advises hospitals about security procedures for nurseries.

The abducted child is usually well cared for, Aldridge said.

Infertility generally does not drive the crime, experts say.

"It's not a matter of they're not able to produce," said John Rabun, executive vice president and chief operating officer of the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children. Many of the women have given birth before and use that experience to feign another pregnancy. The issue for them is to produce a baby on cue, he said.

Once a woman lies to her boyfriend or husband about her pregnancy, she has to produce a child within that time frame.

"She's not able to tell him that she miscarried. He's going to leave her. She's under a time pressure," he said.
...
"This is not psychiatric issue. They're sane; they decide to commit a criminal act." Rabun said.
...
Nahirny agreed.

"I would say none of these abductors have psychotic breaks," she said. "It's too planned."

More at the link.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/25/baby.abduction.profile/index.html

More info can be found here:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/11/women-who-murder-for-babies
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26532421/...htmare-babies-stolen-their-beds/#.WjyQCt-nHDc
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-equation/201206/dying-baby

I know each case needs to be looked at based on the particulars but it seems that more often than not a woman who steals a baby is trying to repair or secure a relationship with her partner. And frequently the woman comes up with a complex and well organized plan to steal a baby, including making props to fake her pregnancy and spinning a web of lies over a period of time.

Hopefully we'll hear more about Miranda-Alvarez' actions and gain some insight into her motives and learn how she rationalized and justified murdering her friend in order to get the baby she wanted. I do understand that it may turn out that she's mentally ill but I'm not going to go there just yet.

In any case, she needs to be removed from society, either in jail or in a psychiatric hospital. MOO.

 

[MsFacetious]

Now that baby Shamali has been found safe it's probably a moot point, but I know a lot of people (myself included) who have not or are not posting on any social media about a pregnancy.

I did not post publicly under my real name about it.
For this reason. A couple of these cases happened around my pregnancy.
I was terrified someone would kill me and steal my long awaited baby boy.

I also wore him strapped to me in public.
No stroller to grab, car seat to run off with or lone baby to grab.
I'm still paranoid, but not as paranoid now that he's 2.
Still wear him most of the time.
It's so incredibly disturbing that we even NEED to be concerned about this as Mom's. :tears:

 

[Amonet]

I'm not completely convinced that mental illness is a factor in at least some cases, and maybe not in this one either. According to information compiled from analyses of 308 cases which occurred between 1983 and January 2017 the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children presented some characteristics of a typical infant abductor:

--Usually a female of childbearing age who appears pregnant.
--Most likely compulsive; most often relies on manipulation, lying and deception.
--Frequently indicates she has lost a baby or is incapable of having one.
--Often married or cohabitating; companion’s desire for a baby or the abductor’s desire to provide her companion with “his” baby may be the motivation for the abduction.
--Usually lives in the community where the abduction takes place.
--Frequently initially visits nursery and maternity units at more than one health care facility prior to the abduction; asks detailed questions about procedures and the maternity floor layout; frequently uses a fire exit stairwell for her escape; and may also try to abduct from the home setting.
--Usually plans the abduction, but does not necessarily target a specific infant; frequently seizes any opportunity present to abduct a baby.
--Frequently impersonates a nurse or other allied health care personnel.
--Often becomes familiar with health care staff members, staff member work routines and victim parents.
--Often demonstrates a capability to provide care to the baby once the abduction occurs, within her emotional and physical abilities.

In addition an abductor who abducts from the home setting (is):
--More likely to be single while claiming to have a partner.
--Often targets a mother whom she may find by visiting health care facilities and tries to meet the target family.
--Often plans the abduction and brings a weapon, although the weapon may not be used.
--Often impersonates a health care or social services professional when visiting the home.

http://www.missingkids.com/theissues/infantabductions

Furthermore, Cathy Nahirny, a senior analyst on infant abduction cases at the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children and John Rabun, executive vice president and chief operating officer had this to say in a 2011 interview with CNN:



More at the link.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/25/baby.abduction.profile/index.html

More info can be found here:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/sep/11/women-who-murder-for-babies
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26532421/...htmare-babies-stolen-their-beds/#.WjyQCt-nHDc
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-equation/201206/dying-baby

I know each case needs to be looked at based on the particulars but it seems that more often than not a woman who steals a baby is trying to repair or secure a relationship with her partner. And frequently the woman comes up with a complex and well organized plan to steal a baby, including making props to fake her pregnancy and spinning a web of lies over a period of time.

Hopefully we'll hear more about Miranda-Alvarez' actions and gain some insight into her motives and learn how she rationalized and justified murdering her friend in order to get the baby she wanted. I do understand that it may turn out that she's mentally ill but I'm not going to go there just yet.

In any case, she needs to be removed from society, either in jail or in a psychiatric hospital. MOO.

I can't really argue with most of this as it's laid out so well and clearly it's backed up by investigating these cases. But personally I can only think that there's some type of psychotic break that leaves planning intact, and maybe even increases planning ability from the norm. They're stating themselves that it's more likely to be combined with low-esteem and desperation to keep either the relationship together or the portrayal of having a baby to present even to the point of lying, covering up, preparing a plan, and then carrying it through even to the point of murder. I cannot see that as an act of a sane mind, it's more like normal planning ability has gone hyper and focused solely into this one 'insane' act.

I suppose it helps if they've actually spoken to these women, whereas I had imagined that it had far more to do with maternal instinct and possibly combined with some form of hormonal issue resulting from the loss of the pregnancy hormones upon miscarriage or stillbirth. They're saying that's wrong, but surely it could still be a factor, just one that's hidden so deep inside that the woman herself can't verbalize it and can only act on it at the point when they make this decision? The ones that decide to fake to continue a pregnancy that's ended in miscarriage, or where there was never a pregnancy, surely that's more likely to be a decision of impaired mental reasoning, and then once they've made that decision they've started to dig the hole for themselves and given themselves a binary choice of either claiming the loss of the pregnancy later on or stealing a baby.

I think a lot of murder is down to some form of psychopathy. I can see that ability to plan and think forward would preclude a legal insanity defense, but although the information changes how I assumed the brain was broken in these cases and that it's not simply about the baby but the wider context of the relationship, the self-image, etc, the thought of having a baby has become a lodestone in the mind in a way that is really not logical, and it's leading to completely illogical/insane actions to solve the perceived problem. For a comparison, it's a heck of a lot more emotionally complex than a decision to rob a bank, although I suppose every action we take as humans is informed by the context of our previous experiences, our current experiences, and our hopes and fears for the future, but I do tend to explain, when things go 'wrong', as something in the head being 'broken' by reactions to the context of previous experiences, current experiences, and hopes/fears for the future. And I think a lot of people need help with this due to negative experiences in their lives, they might need counselling, or assertiveness training or something like that, but 'normal' breakdown might lead to someone taking a vindictive action or being spiteful, being passive aggressive...things that can be changed with education and help to understand one's own motivations and the contribution that past experiences are bringing to their lives and impacting on their thinking patterns even many years after-the-fact.

That contributory factors and a profile can be built for women who commit acts like this, isn't that in and of itself a sign that something is 'broken'?

I'm not suggesting that we should all be "Vulcan" in our emotions and logic, but I do think we often need help to understand how the past and present affects our thinking patterns and behavior, and sometimes people can end up hurting themselves and people close to them and they don't really understand why it's happening, and I don't think any good comes from it.

 

[Stunned]

Thank goodness! LE was right on top of this since the start and that makes me think they had something to go by, more than just a theory. I hope we will hear what it was.

I'm so sorry Shamali and her sibs were robbed of a loving mom but I'm also grateful the officers and agents brought this poor baby home to her family where she belongs. Chief Acevedo made good on his statement.

And now, sadly everyone will be deported. Merry Christmas.

 

[TeaTime]

Really. Horrific. Insane.

 

[aspiring drifter]

will there, or is there another thread concerning the perp? or will it just be this thread?

 

[Inthedetails]

will there, or is there another thread concerning the perp? or will it just be this thread?

Case developments will be on this thread.

 

[aspiring drifter]

HOUSTON — A Houston woman accused of killing a mother and kidnapping her six-week-old baby told investigators the victim was already dead when she arrived at the home Tuesday, reports CBS affiliate KHOU, citing prosecutors” statements in court.

Prosecutors said in court Thursday night that Miranda-Alvarez denied killing Carolina Flores to investigators, but admitted abducting the child. She reportedly said she went to the victim”s apartment, saw the front door open and the victim lying dead on her bedroom floor before she took the baby and left.

When investigators arrested Miranda-Alvarez, they reportedly found hospital wristbands in her pocket, one with the name of the victim and the other with the infant”s birth date.

Investigators say they found a pair of scissors on Flores” body, but they don”t know if it”s the murder weapon, KHOU reports.

Miranda-Alvarez was being held in a medical unit and didn”t appear for the probable cause hearing Thursday night, the station reports. She was ordered held without bond on a capital murder charge and was due to return to court next Wednesday.

https://thetruth24.net/2017/12/24/d...-of-woman-accused-of-killing-mom-taking-baby/

 

[aspiring drifter]

now she was found at 11:30 am

"Detectives said she also admitted to talking Flores’ cell phone. "
"The judge ruled that probable cause did exist."


https://www.click2houston.com/news/...bable-cause-hearing-for-erika-miranda-alvarez

 

[aspiring drifter]

some reports say scissors were found on Carolina's body, while others' state they were on her bed.

 

[kkdj]

Won't the father take custody of the baby?