Found Deceased TX - Sherin Mathews, 3, Richardson, 7 Oct 2017 #6 *Arrest*

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by tlcya, Oct 24, 2017.

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  1. TeaTime

    TeaTime Well-Known Member

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    I do not even think the 3am timeline is true. This seems to be a perp's favorite time to pick to report to LE - it is always 3am.

    I don't think anything happened in the garage other than Sherin was placed there, dead, until a plan was hatched and clean up begun. I think WM mentioned the garage in case LE detected evidence in there, as in cadaver dogs hitting on where he initially placed her body before leaving the house.

    I think that the reason we are hearing "I believed that she was dead" is because LE would remind him that, not being a medical professional of any sort, he could not say with 100% certainty that she was dead. He knew she was, but he would have to admit that he is not qualified to make that call. Therefore, he could only state that he believed her to be dead.

    None of us know how deep into the culvert the body was located. I suggest that it could very well be that a cursory peek into the culvert would not reveal a body 50 feet into that dark, little tunnel even with a flashlight and that it is more than likely a fact that the body was there all along. I think it is best to not complicate known facts with theories of 3rd parties involved in moving a dead child's body from one hiding spot to place it in another.

    The net has photos taken by rubber-neckers of the culvert, complete with close ups of maggots. To my untrained eye after matching up the photos with larvae stages online, I think there were maggots in the end stage which is about 9 days. I know it may depend on the exact type of fly, but this is my own unscientific opinion for reference. Some of the maggots were reported to be alive - still. Of course, there could have been prior infestation and those maggots are gone as well as earlier larvae stage development present. I do not write this to start a maggot war.

    I do not think she choked to death on milk. I think the cause of her death is the reason that 911 was not called, because it was not an accident.
     


  2. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    That "believed" part has been bothering me a lot. Also, LE has released the statement but note that they did not release where WM stated that he took her, only that he removed her body from the home.

    If she were in the culvert the entire time, I don't see how she was much further than arm's length, and arm's length would be very visible. It's a straight, clear, culvert, 100' long, and you can see completely through to the other end, however, the mouth is not very large at all. How did he get her body in there that far? There's just no way, that I can see, that WM, himself, could have placed her body in there, any further than arm's length (2nd picture shows a searcher, by culvert's mouth, for reference).

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     

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  3. MarisaS1985

    MarisaS1985 Member

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    Thanks for the maggot insight. I never looked at them closely or did any "age" research so that's helpful, even though it is your "unscientific opinion" LOL!!

    Just wanted to add that the original story said 3am. The second story didn't mention any time frame. We only know/assume it was after 3am because the Acura was missing during the 4am hour...

    I am not sure if we are supposed to have just replaced the tree with the garage or tossed the whole story regarding laundry and everything!?

    I think the dogs likely hit on the cars or in the garage which is why the cars were taken to begin, and I think the dogs likely hit on the washer or dryer and that since that went along with his first story they took both... I wish LE would update just to say whether or not the new story completely contradicted the first or if they are using both in collecting evidence etc....

    JMO
     
  4. MarisaS1985

    MarisaS1985 Member

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    Maria Guerrero reported that the culvert was only 19" confirmed to her by LE. I assume this means in diameter (across).

    It would be interesting to see if there were any scrapes or injuries on WM's back or shoulders. I don't think 19" is too small for a grown up to get into, but I highly doubt you wouldn't be rubbing and hitting your body all over in doing so, and therefore getting bruises and scrapes, while also placing your own hair and fibers in such a tight space.

    Would love to know if the people who went in to retrieve her were men/women and what their sizes were. Also, they usually have procedures for collecting the body and losing the least evidence, including proper body bags that won't allow bodily fluids and such to leak out or DNA and trace evidence to escape. I would be surprised if they pulled her out and then put her in a body bag, unless the culvert was too small for an adult to get in properly. Which then, could lead to the idea that something dragged her further in, or that she was alive and crawled in on her own :( LE did say that she was INSIDE the culvert UNDER the road, so if they were being specific with that it means she wasn't at the entrance but was a good ways in. IMO

    I believe the jail website had WM at 190lbs, I can't recall his height though and the Dallas county jail site doesn't appear to have his physical description listed.
     
  5. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    I'm sorry about your grandpa, that had to be quite a shock.

    I can understand the odor staying in the culvert, though. It's a closed in, underground, space, under a sloping hillside, with concrete sides extending beyond, and above the openings. There's no wind blowing through the culvert, to help air out odors or dampness, either, as it's blowing over it. We have one that was put in, back when the road was built that fronts part of our property, many years ago, that is very similar, and it's never really what I'd call "dry".
     
  6. MarisaS1985

    MarisaS1985 Member

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    I've never crawled into our culvert that goes under the road or driveway at my home, but I know they wouldn't be dry as there is marsh on either side. I do believe the one in the driveway is 19" and that my kids had no issues going in and hiding and playing, we didn't allow it because culverts do collapse sometimes, which NATURALLY made the kids want to hang out there more :( I do think that I would have been able to get in without an issue to grab my child out if I had too, I am overweight, but I am still petite as far as height goes and where i carry my weight (my belly). I don't know if my dad who is very fit and muscular could fit inside though because he has very broad shoulders. He isn't tall, or heavy, but those shoulders...

    Thanks for mentioning my grandpa. Thankfully, it wasn't a shock. He went for coffee daily with his nephew and hadn't showed up. His nephew went to the apartment and couldn't get in. He called me knowing I had a key. When we knew he had missed coffee and wasn't answering his door, we expected to find his body (he had several different cancers and poor health). He was actually sitting on his couch, with one shoe on, and was holding his shoe horn. It looked like time had froze as he wasn't slumped over or anything. But there was an odor as he kept his apartment at 100 degrees (also why he went into rigor so fast). I think the position of his body was the most shocking. I have seen other bodies, but in hospital beds, and found some of them more traumatic. I am definitely weird...
     
  7. edimmu

    edimmu Member

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    Could he have used the large wooden fork and spoon from the kitchen to push her body further in the culvert?
     
  8. i8mypaint

    i8mypaint Active Member

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    What about that first place they took evidence from? Maybe she was there for a bit, then the searching was getting too close so they moved her to the culvert?

    I don’t know... just kicking out ideas while we wait for COD, TOD ... etc


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  9. Amonet

    Amonet Well-Known Member

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    I just got out a tape measure and I seem to be about 17 to 18" at the shoulders, but I'd need a wider space to properly crawl.

    I think from WM's description of the tree that Sherin was probably placed in at the opposite side from where the pictures are taken, where there is a tree or bushes? Then rainwater probably carried her body further into the culvert rather than someone pushing her in or crawling in with the body. If her body had been placed into a plastic bag then rain water could get under it, and the slipperyness of plastic combined with decomp gases in a sealed/tied bag would help the bag to slide deeper into the culvert.

    We haven't been told the body was found in a bag of any kind, but it would make sense...

    I strongly doubt that a female helped with the body disposal, but I am struck a bit that the pipe seems to offer a kind of 'birth canal' type space.
     
  10. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    If she was near the middle part, and WM weighs in at 190#, then, no, I can't see him getting in there, and having any ability to move at all. That's going in at least 50'. How on earth could he maneuver, with a body? Iirc, Maria Guerrero said they were "pulling" the body out of the culvert.

    The female LEO, kneeling at the mouth of the culvert, would probably be able to go in, and possibly with a small bundle, and then back herself out (but this is a person who looks to be very fit), and WM looks to me like he'd have gotten stuck after going much past his head.

    I'm sitting here studying the better half, and self, and we're on the taller side, but not big framed, or obese (However, I'd not call us exactly "fit" at this stage in life, either.) and there's no way either of us could accomplish fitting inside that culvert opening, while managing a 22 pound bundle, then wriggling/crawling in 50', and, finally backing ourselves out, 50 feet.

    Another thought:
    The LEO said they'd investigated the culvert on Day 2. What if she was placed there on Day 3 or 4, and was bundled up? No one was probably investigating the culvert quite as hard after Day 2. So, he has her body moved to the culvert, thinking/hoping it may be months, or even years, before anyone finds her body, since they've already searched the area with a fine toothed comb.

    Then whoever helped him move her there, is probably tracking the case, and hears about the search going to take place, with the cadaver dogs. They're a part of it now, so, they think they should go to retrieve her body, but can't, because the odor is just too overpowering inside the culvert (hence the argument, and cursing, that the neighbors, in that area, overheard). I just can't see him fitting in that culvert.
     
  11. MarisaS1985

    MarisaS1985 Member

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    I honestly believe she was likely placed in on the tree side too. I said from the start that all lies have some form of truth and when I saw that the culvert opened up on one side with a big tree I immediately thought "at least he didn't lie about a tree"... Also, just because she was removed from the side that doesn't have the tree, doesn't mean it's what was closer either, it simply may have been safer for the recovery team, offered more room to setup, OR in order to access her they would have had to crawl through evidence from the tree end, so to avoid disrupting that, they went from the "wrong side" and removed her (meaning she could have started at the tree and made her way through the entire culvert coming out the side the memorial is on during the recovery), and then when they finished recovering her, they may have continued up the culvert towards the tree and collected hairs, fibers, DNA etc and of course taken photos and all of that, "disturbing" the scene as they worked their way through, starting at Sherin and moving up and out... The only thing LE has said about her location is that she was INSIDE the culvert UNDER the road. From the photos I have seen of the culvert, it appears that the opening of the culvert regardless of which side, is a good ways from the road itself, with a grassy area large enough to need maintained before hitting the shoulder of the road and then the road itself. I would love it if someone could measure that out, from openings on both ends to where the road begins. The photos make it look like its a good 20-30ft but as someone who takes a lot of photos, I also realize that depth and size simply don't always show in photos the way they do in real life!!

    JMO as always!!
     
  12. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    I think that a slim, fit, male or female, could have helped him. LE have said that they expect more arrests. I looked up the rainfall and there had been no significant rainfall in Richland since the day that Sherin went missing. However, there was a little over 1" of rain that fell around the area on the 22nd, the day that Sherin's body was found. The dampness, if it rained in that particular area, could have been enough to help the dogs pick up scent.
     
  13. MarisaS1985

    MarisaS1985 Member

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    I was shocked when I read that he was 190lbs as I made the assumption that he was likely smaller. I very rarely see anyone from India who is large, not to say never, but it seems to be rare in my area. However, when we saw him being transported to the Dallas Jail, he did in fact appear to not only be on the heavy side, but also quite tall. I don't know how tall the officers etc were around him, but I think its fair to say they were likely of average height, and iirc WM looked large.

    Then I started to wonder how on earth he could have got her into the culvert. Especially if she was as far in as "under the road".

    One idea that comes to mind, that is a bit sickening, but does make it plausible that with his bigger frame he could have done it, is if he pushed her in as far as he could and then he went in backwards and pushed her with his feet in a sort of army crawl with his arms in front of him as this would make his shoulders thinner. It wouldn't have been easy, but people running off of adrenaline have been known to do the impossible. Also, if he had gone in feet first, he not only wouldn't have had to look at Sherin, but he would have had a good view of the opening of the culvert which would have given him a perspective of how far he had gone, as the area is dark at night and I can't imagine being able to see forward and through with the same perception as if you went in with your eye on the opening.

    The "black pants" bugged me from the Amber Alert as it is HARD to find black clothes for babies and she likely only wore a 12-18 month size based on her height and weight. BUT if he had placed her in a dark place and wanted her to not be easily seen, black pants would have been a lot better than purple disney princesses pj top and bottoms with bright colored stars.... Which, tends to be what most little ones sleep in...

    JMO on everything
     
  14. TeaTime

    TeaTime Well-Known Member

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    Excellent observations! TY
     
  15. Grouchymom

    Grouchymom Verified Grouchymom

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    the face next to the baby
     
  16. rosesfromangels

    rosesfromangels Amateur speculations and opinion only

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    I think the next week or so are going to be extremely difficult and upsetting. I think we will learn more that will outrage, and it’s going to be extremely important for community leaders to focus on turning this tragedy in to good while LE processes the Perp(s) and the courts exact punishment.
    It’s going to be a couple of very rough weeks ahead.
    The more I read, the sicker I feel. It’s so hard to comprehend...
     
  17. georgiajean

    georgiajean Well-Known Member

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    Random thoughts, after catching up on the thread. Sorry for not replying to individual posts, but my computer is being very wonky and keeps bogging down.
    The black pants. I thought they were pajama bottoms? I have seen very cute toddler pajama sets with black bottoms and colored tops, and I thought that's what they were. Ok, here it is, from her missing info: "She was last seen wearing a pink top, black pajama bottoms and pink flip flops."

    How far was she in the culvert? Someone posted pics of inside the culvert, with a dark stain which I now am figuring was fluids from her body. LE (from Maria Guerrero) said the body was "a ways inside." So if there was a way to tell how far in the dark stain is?

    How much water flowed through there in that rainstorm, and was it enough to move the body? In video taken the day after her body was found, there was standing water on the north side of the western culvert (not the one Sherin was found in). And the areas on both sides of both culverts were muddy, and there was actually standing water in the western culvert (I watched a video of two women trying to put a measuring tape through the western culvert and there was easily a couple inches of water in there). In researching culverts of the city, I learned that water flowed north through that area. So it would have pushed her further into the culvert (if she was placed on the south end) or moved her out of the culvert (if she was placed at the north end). Does that make sense?
     
  18. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    Thanks! I'm always wary of posting any FB links b/c of TOS. I'm almost positive it is okay as long as it is a verified news source but, I always second guess myself.

    The slow-mo vid was very nice! Can anyone imagine, with two cars in there, taking a child in there to feed her? The car almost touched the wall of the house when they pulled inside. I wonder what is behind that door to the left? A storage room? Laundry room?
     
  19. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    I think it's b/c it's something that's not well known because it is a study that's still a bit obscure, and can differ based on where the body is left. A body in one place might deteriorate much more rapidly than that of one left in another place. "Body Farms", as most call them, use donated bodies, to study how a body decomposes. I first learned about them, by accident, several years ago while reading a Tim Dorsey book (fiction novel). I think there are six Body Farms now, across the U.S. Here is a link to the one in Tennessee. It's been awhile since I looked them up, after learning of their existence, so the link is more informative than my memory. They still have their very first body, donated in 1981, at the Tenn. location (well, I'm guessing skeletal remains, now).

    Univ. of Tenn. Forensic Anthropology Center.
    https://fac.utk.edu/
     
  20. donnam

    donnam New Member

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    I agree 100%! Some of the "mob mentality" I see, especially on fb is disturbing!
     
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