TX Shots fired at a free-speech "draw Muhammad " event in Garland TX

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so how about the Islamists who tried to shoot her? Are they part of this lower plane or because they are a religion they get bumped up to a higher plane?
 
I find it even more disturbing that the first reaction of so many people is to condemn the speech they disagree with rather than the acts of violence against innocent people.

RS/BBM

Some people are condemning both.
 
RS/BBM

Some people are condemning both.

And some people seem to think you have to choose which one to condemn. Because you either have to be liberal or conservative dontcha know....
 
RS/BBM

Some people are condemning both.

Many are not.

The first reaction of many has been to criticize and condemn Geller's organization. That tells me a lot about their thought processes and the plane of consciousness they occupy.
 
Um, since when is white nationalist not a derogatory term? OT but still....

A fair number of folks identify as White Nationalists so obviously they don't think it is a derogatory term.

Historically the people being labeled by the term define whether it is derogatory or acceptable.
 
RS/BBM

Some people are condemning both.

But the thing is, she shouldn't be condemned at all. I didn't even know who she was until last night. But I don't care what she says about any religion. I won't condemn anyone for having a different view of mine if it isn't physically harming others. All she is using is words. She is in NO way responsible for the attacks against the event.

She is about as responsible for this happening as a rape victim is for wearing something sexy. It portrays the same idea that what someone is saying or doing gives others the right to victimize them. (And I'm not saying you are doing this, I am just seeing it EVERYWHERE in social media)
 
Pamela Geller gave an AMAZING interview with FOX news. Unfortunately it is not up on their site and I cannot link to the sites that are hosting it (non-msm) but suffice to say Pam Geller is the new "Iron Lady".

She's also been characterized as an Islamophobe. There's no reason to hype all this up to make all Muslims seem like terrorists and like she is some kind of hero.
 
But the thing is, she shouldn't be condemned at all. I didn't even know who she was until last night. But I don't care what she says about any religion. I won't condemn anyone for having a different view of mine if it isn't physically harming others. All she is using is words. She is in NO way responsible for the attacks against the event.

She is about as responsible for this happening as a rape victim is for wearing something sexy. It portrays the same idea that what someone is saying or doing gives others the right to victimize them. (And I'm not saying you are doing this, I am just seeing it EVERYWHERE in social media)

bbm, Me neither.
 
But the thing is, she shouldn't be condemned at all. I didn't even know who she was until last night. But I don't care what she says about any religion. I won't condemn anyone for having a different view of mine if it isn't physically harming others. All she is using is words. She is in NO way responsible for the attacks against the event.

She is about as responsible for this happening as a rape victim is for wearing something sexy. It portrays the same idea that what someone is saying or doing gives others the right to victimize them. (And I'm not saying you are doing this, I am just seeing it EVERYWHERE in social media)

I think these ad hominem attacks calling her group racist white nationalists and a hate group are degrading to civil discourse. And victim bashing.

I wouldn't mind seeing people who disagree with her stance talk about what specifically they disagree with and why. That would be operating on a higher plane of consciousness.

Nevertheless, I support the free speech rights of those who simply prefer to call her names. I would not support anyone shooting them, beheading them, or burning them alive just because they spew hateful and vitriolic speech.
 
I'm fairly certain that almost everyone in America, Australia etc. believes that free speech includes the right to speak incendiary and provocative words without the consequence of violence. However, Gellers, Wilders and others put themselves in a group that a lot of people don't want to identify with. Like it or not, people aren't going to rush to their side. But that doesn't mean their detractors are anti free speech or anti freedom.

Well said, thank you.
 
Here is the deal. The next person that violates TOS will be getting a vacation.

We are all tired of posters who can't discuss things without accusing each other of being racist or whatever.

It is a good idea to knock all of that off as of right now. My patience is gone.

Tricia
 
I think these ad hominem attacks calling her group racist white nationalists and a hate group are degrading to civil discourse. And victim bashing.

I wouldn't mind seeing people who disagree with her stance talk about what specifically they disagree with and why. That would be operating on a higher plane of consciousness.

Nevertheless, I support the free speech rights of those who simply prefer to call her names. I would not support anyone shooting them, beheading them, or burning them alive just because they spew hateful and vitriolic speech.

They are what they are. I don't see them backing away from those characterizations. I don't see it as 'victim bashing' to tell the truth. I could make a list of things I disagree with her/her group about, but that would be easy.

The American Freedom Defense Initiative has been designated a Muslim hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center[SUP].[/SUP][SUP]

[/SUP] ....The British government designated Geller's organizations hate groups and barred Geller's entry into the UK in 2013 (wiki)

I have known and worked with many Muslims, in fact, I have a close relative who is Muslim and I lived in a Muslim country for a year. It's sad that many of them face increased violence due to Muslim hating.

I also don't agree with any terrorists, period, or violence.
 
Many are not.

The first reaction of many has been to criticize and condemn Geller's organization. That tells me a lot about their thought processes and the plane of consciousness they occupy.

Freedom all around - to state what one thinks on a subject and the freedom to think and judge as you wish about those statements.
 
A fair number of folks identify as White Nationalists so obviously they don't think it is a derogatory term.

Historically the people being labeled by the term define whether it is derogatory or acceptable.

I know it's a term some are proud of, that's cool, but at the same time it is used in a derogatory fashion. If I could only count the number of times I've seen "left", "liberal" or even... shock horror "socialist", used as a put down. Well, I don't get to get to define "liberal" as being a put down, but I'm not crying out that's it's an offense. Wait, I have to capitalise Liberal and Socialist... I forgot.
 
I didn't even know who she was until last night.

I haven't heard of her before either, but I don't follow things that closely. Geert Wilders is pretty well known though, she had to have some pull to get him to an event in Garland TX.
 
Freedom all around - to state what one thinks on a subject and the freedom to think and judge as you wish about those statements.

Yep, absolutely. I support the right of people to make unsupported ad hominem attacks. They should not be shot, blown up, beheaded or burned alive for saying what they think. I might wish they would engage in civil discourse by discussing what they actually disagree with, but I support their right to make ad hominem attacks if that's what they prefer.

I condemn anyone who engages in violence against a person or group on the basis of their beliefs or public statements. Even if those committing violence are Islam, or any other religion. It's never, ever justified.
 
Pamela Geller is a hate mongerer.

LOL YEP. I wonder when Fox News will air the cartoons for our viewing pleasure. They report, we decide. JMO Will they proudly and bravely assert their 1st Amendment right? JMO
 
LOL YEP. I wonder when Fox News will air the cartoons for our viewing pleasure. They report, we decide. JMO Will they proudly and bravely assert their 1st Amendment right? JMO

I'm sorry but it doesn't matter if she is a hate mongerer. STOP faulting the victim. It's not what we do on WS.
 
I'm sorry but it doesn't matter if she is a hate mongerer. STOP faulting the victim. It's not what we do on WS.

If there was EVER a case of obvious victims vs. criminals/killers this is it.

Funny how it causes so much controversy and the targeted victims are being criticized.
 
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