TX - Terri 'Missy' Bevers,45, murdered in church/person in SWAT gear,18 Apr 2016 #33

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It's fun to be "Facebook detectives" as LE calls it and spend time looking for an Altima, but we shouldn't lose sight of that car's significance (or lack of same). I am reminded that LE says the Altima really has nothing to do with the suspect. It was just the vehicle of an unrelated person, who drove that road several hours earlier. So if we look at our suspect's work or home and find an Altima, the presence of an Altima (as opposed to any other sort of vehicle) is meaningless in relation to the case. Of course, it's still fun!

They really haven't said that, though. Releasing a photo while saying the driver is not a suspect is something they would have to do to cover their rear ends. It is obviously a car of interest to them. If they were sure it was of an unrelated person, they wouldn't have bothered to release it to the public at all, right? What would be the point?

The car may or may not have anything to do with MB's death. But it WAS there just half a mile away, in the dead of night, a couple of hours before a murder took place. We certainly can't say that it has nothing to do with the suspect, or that it's just the vehicle of an unrelated person. LE never said that.
 
I stumbled upon something as I was re-reading the transcript from the 5/20 presser. We've been discussing in this thread the likely route that MB might have taken to get to the church that morning, and if she had in fact been followed, and if LE had checked survellance cameras along that route.

This part of the transcript indicates that they checked both residential and commercial camera systems in the area:

"...part of our initial investigation involved canvassing residential and commercial camera systems for any activity in the vicinity of the murder prior to. Several leads were generated through this effort. All but one of those leads have been exhausted." (The last sentence refers to the Altima)
 
They really haven't said that, though. Releasing a photo while saying the driver is not a suspect is something they would have to do to cover their rear ends. It is obviously a car of interest to them. If they were sure it was of an unrelated person, they wouldn't have bothered to release it to the public at all, right? What would be the point?

I'm not sure of your point. They did say what I said they did, that the Altima driver was not related to the murder and was just a person who might (or might not) have seen something that could help. And they said the ONLY reason they mentioned it was because it was the one unfinished item from the security cams from businesses on 287 (which I now see you mentioned in your ensuing post).

We can still make a big deal out of the Altima if we want. But not if we value what LE keeps telling us, because there is no question that all along they have been expressing interest but not concern over finding it. Their posture certainly is in line with the minimal importance they have said it holds.
 
I want to say that I never thought any colleagues of MB were involved in her murder. And, at times I have looked at pics of SP's eyes enlarged, enhanced , and they look like my Siamese cat's eyes ... But then I happened to look at a photo of the person mentioned. And something about the look in her eyes made me feel fearful. Strange. jmo

that's why I relooked at all my photos and reworked hundreds of screen captures because many of what I thought were eye pics (like Siamese cat eyes) - turned out to be shadows or screws or whatever on the nasal area of the face guard that the killer is wearing. I then did new screen captures above that nasal area and voila..there were the eyes. But, I don't believe any of my shots are clear enough to post here...I've posted some in the past and Websleuthers weren't able to make out the detail that I can see on my desktop computer. Trust me though...they resemble CT's eyes and even some of her expressions in photos of her I have seen.
 
I'm not sure of your point. They did say what I said they did, that the Altima driver was not related to the murder and was just a person who might (or might not) have seen something that could help. And they said the ONLY reason they mentioned it was because it was the one unfinished item from the security cams from businesses on 287.

We can still make a big deal out of the Altima if we want. But not if we value what LE keeps telling us, because there is no question that they are expressing a total lack of concern over finding it. Their posture certainly is in line with the minimal importance they have said it holds.

My point is that, in my opinion, you're not accurately representing what they said and you're giving your own interpretation of the meaning of what they did say. Let me just copy from the transcript and we can all read it and decide whatever we want to take from it:

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This may have been discussed so I apologize, but in regards to the following statement from the SW:

"At approximately 0418 hours, the victim Terri Bevers is observed entering the building through the main door under the awning area. The video shows Terri Bevers walking toward where the suspects location. Neither the suspect nor victim, were seen again on video. The victim was later found deceased at the south west comer of the interior of the building."

This tells me LE knows where the SP was at approx 4:18, because they say Missy is walking towards his/her location. To me, for them to know this, they have the SP on video at 4:18. Do we know the time stamps on the videos that have already been released?
The only video released with time stamps is the first one. As SP was walking toward and turning to go to the South Hallway it was just before 3:59 am. It is unclear whether MPD knows for certain, other than that location was where Missy was killed, whether SP was already there. The unfortunate thing about the bolded sentence is that it is unclear what they meant. If they meant where SP was last seen (if we have seen all the video of SP) then that would be on the diagonally opposite side of the church (last seen entering a room behind the stage in the Sanctuary in the far North East corner of the building) which means Missy could have either went North up the West hallway or East down the South hallway after entering the Church. MPD has said that the murder was not seen on video nor was SP seen again (sadly neither was Missy). So if SP were waiting right where she was killed the only way MPD knows that is because that was the site of the murder.
 
I could be imagining this, but I thought somewhere in the beginning they mentioned they saw her truck come in because of video from the gun store. NOT saying this is fact, and not trying to start a rumor.

I'm not sure if they ever clarified which cameras they were talking about?
 
We can still make a big deal out of the Altima if we want. But not if we value what LE keeps telling us, because there is no question that all along they have been expressing interest but not concern over finding it. Their posture certainly is in line with the minimal importance they have said it holds.

Did they keep telling us anything about the Altima? As I remember, they only told us once, in the 5/20 press conference. Then apparently on their FB page they answered a question saying that the driver still had not come forward.

Besides the Altima, I'm not sure what to think about what LE is telling us regarding the perp himself. Earlier today, I thought I was pretty sure that there was a disconnect between what LE is telling us and what they actually believe about the perp's physical characteristics. The whole "5-2 to 5-7" thing, which seems to eliminate almost every male. But then I went back and re-read that 5/20 transcript, and Johnson seems quite sincere in saying that they want the public to keep the (1) gait and (2) height in mind when choosing what leads to give to LE. LE would really be shooting themselves in the foot to purposely lie to us like that. So I think they REALLY do believe that height range. And I have trouble reconciling that with BatBrat who has put so much care into her calculations and, along with others, came closer to 6 feet.

Here is what Johnson said about the height on 5/20:

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I could be imagining this, but I thought somewhere in the beginning they mentioned they saw her truck come in because of video from the gun store. NOT saying this is fact, and not trying to start a rumor.

1 It has been conjectured here, in various ways and by many people at various times, but no evidence supports the idea that any video from SWFA was able to capture any movements at CCoC that morning.
2 From personally having been to SWFA without rain and during day, and seeing how limited the view would be in those ideal circumstances, I don't think their cams offered anything on the CCoC campus. SWFA cams would not be focused on the church, the church was a long ways away and on the other side of the highway, there are trees obscuring the vision, and it was very rainy and certainly otherwise dark to boot.
...In addition, it was not a light amount of rain falling during the time these things happened. In the single hour between 3:35 and 4:35, there was almost double the amount of rain it takes for a rain storm to be classified as "heavy rain." Visibility had to be incredibly poor. You've seen these heavy storms we've had this year in the Dallas area - it was one of those.
 
I could be imagining this, but I thought somewhere in the beginning they mentioned they saw her truck come in because of video from the gun store. NOT saying this is fact, and not trying to start a rumor.
I may be mistaken but I believe that they said her arrival was seen on video surveillance. They didn't say directly which cameras caught that. But what we do know, per MPD, is that the outside cameras at the Creekside Church were working intermittently. We also know that the SWFA Gun shop cameras were working because they have the captures of that Altima in their parking lot. The best bet is that her arrival was captured by the SWFA cameras.
 
Cannonball, they have also made multiple comments and answers on their website re that car, and each time make a point to emphasize that it's NOT a vehicle of perp/suspect. I think that's noteworthy. They remind it's just someone they want to talk to who might (or might not) have seen something helpful. The message is consistent, continuing to express interest but offering no significant concern over finding that car.

I find it relevant that they don't bring up the subject, even though they haven't found it. For example, if it was really important to them, they would keep reminding the public what the car is, please be on the lookout, etc ...but, it's only mentioned when someone asks about it, and they just answer the question and yawn and walk away. (Frankly, I've seriously wondered if this was their "bone" being offered to "Facebook detectives" to give them something to chase, whose result either way wouldn't mess with things of importance to them.)
 
CG being inside isn't unusual. It was HORRIBLE rain, so even if they tried to do it covered outside, they would have still been soaked. Every CG location has an alternate option when it rains...whether inside or outside (some are even at a diff location.) this was also the first day of a new camp (4 weeks of camp, bold week for members, and then the next 4 weeks.) IMO, it wouldn't be weird for new campers to have shown up that am. When I was doing CG, I went to different locations all the time and brought friends as guests.

I think the altima is irrelevant, but people kept asking for answers and crazy people on FB groups were calling everything under the sun in. I think it's a distraction personally. Not going to argue about it and in all reality, when you see the setup if the cameras there at SWFA then I highly doubt they don't have the plates. Again I think they know who perp us, but have to seal the case. Any defense attorney will try to rip apart anything they've said in the media. ALL JMO
 
I worked on some Altima pics - don't know if you'll be able to see anything.

first shot is of the driver's back of the head (and it appears he is wearing some sort of hat) and it appears guy in the backseat behind him. second shot is another individual in the backseat passenger side appears to be holding a phone or possibly a handgun and you can even make out his/her thumb. course could be I'm just seeing things. (I tried to do a little yellow arrow pointing at the thumb)

front driver seat of altima.png

printscreen from mpd twitter of altima.jpg

IMHO I doubt the Altima is related to MB's case
 
I found it interesting today to go back and watch the pressers and read available transcripts. There are nuggets in there that answer questions we've been debating, such as whether the class was going to be inside as I mentioned in another post. It's just hard to remember and keep track of it all. I'm watching the very first April 18 presser and here are some interesting tidbits. Some of them you may have kept track of from the beginning; others, maybe you forgot like I did:

1. Spann is asked at about the 7:00 mark if the suspect appeared to be armed. Spann replies, "Could not tell from the video if he was armed. He did appear to have some type of object that he was using to pry on doors." Spann moves pretty smoothly in answering this question. To me, this answers the question of whether a gun was used. I think Spann would have hesitated in some way to edit himself to not mention the gun, if there was clear evidence of a bullet wound.

2. At about 7:47 he says the campers "went into the building to start their boot camp, and that's when they located her." Dispels the rumor that they saw something amiss through the window and THEN went to investigate.

3. At around 9:20, "businesses that were within eyesight of the church, we've gone and collected video." So they had SWFA video that same day. Whether they had already viewed it by the press conference time, I don't know.

4. At around 11:00, he states that the evidence unit from Ellis County Sheriff's department were the ones who came out and collected the crime scene evidence. I hadn't noticed that detail before - assumed that MPD did the evidence collection.

5. Around 12:30, regarding when MB is last seen on video: "She's walking down the main hallway in the vicinity of where we located her."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNLtwTK2hq8&feature=youtu.be
 
CG being inside isn't unusual. It was HORRIBLE rain, so even if they tried to do it covered outside, they would have still been soaked. Every CG location has an alternate option when it rains...whether inside or outside (some are even at a diff location.) this was also the first day of a new camp (4 weeks of camp, bold week for members, and then the next 4 weeks.) IMO, it wouldn't be weird for new campers to have shown up that am. When I was doing CG, I went to different locations all the time and brought friends as guests.

I think the altima is irrelevant, but people kept asking for answers and crazy people on FB groups were calling everything under the sun in. I think it's a distraction personally. Not going to argue about it and in all reality, when you see the setup if the cameras there at SWFA then I highly doubt they don't have the plates. Again I think they know who perp us, but have to seal the case. Any defense attorney will try to rip apart anything they've said in the media. ALL JMO
Many people have theorized that MPD already knows who the perp is but have to seal the case. In your opinion, what is it that you think they need to seal the deal?
 
Cannonball, they have also made multiple comments and answers on their website re that car, and each time make a point to emphasize that it's NOT a vehicle of perp/suspect. I think that's noteworthy. They remind it's just someone they want to talk to who might (or might not) have seen something helpful. The message is consistent, continuing to express interest but offering no significant concern over finding that car.

I find it relevant that they don't bring up the subject, even though they haven't found it. For example, if it was really important to them, they would keep reminding the public what the car is, please be on the lookout, etc ...but, it's only mentioned when someone asks about it, and they just answer the question and yawn and walk away. (Frankly, I've seriously wondered if this was their "bone" being offered to "Facebook detectives" to give them something to chase, whose result either way wouldn't mess with things of importance to them.)

If you're right, then poor Jethro. He's been chasing Altimas all over Dallas for a zillion hours. Oh well, as he said, his time is his own. And with so little information to really sleuth in this case, it certainly doesn't hurt.
 
1 But what we do know, per MPD, is that the outside cameras at the Creekside Church were working intermittently.

2 We also know that the SWFA Gun shop cameras were working because they have the captures of that Altima in their parking lot. The best bet is that her arrival was captured by the SWFA cameras.

1 On the day of the murder, the CCoC exterior cams worked "not at all" rather than "intermittently." That's explicitly what LE said. ("We had video during previous times of exterior footage but on the day of the murder we don't have exterior footage from the cameras outside ....")

2 SWFA cam coverage of CCoC that night is theoretically possible, but objectively quite unlikely. In fact, given the distance, the separation of a divided highway and 1/2 mile away, and lots of trees in-between, and the fact that SWFA wants their cams to focus on their own property, maybe not ever. But that night, even more unlikely, given the fact it was middle of night darkness, and it was HEAVY rain when MB was arriving, further obscuring any potential visibility of any cam that might have theoretically had some view.
 
ALL JMO: In repose to you, Jethro...I think accomplices, and they need something more concrete. I think there's a lot of circumstantial evidence...I also think cell phone pings will give whoever is involved up. I could be wrong, but I think what MPD isn't saying speaks louder than what they are. EX: They're not telling us to be afraid of a murderer on the run...CG trainers are still going about their daily camps..they're not asking the public for help. ALL JMO.
 
If you're right, then poor Jethro. He's been chasing Altimas all over Dallas for a zillion hours. Oh well, as he said, his time is his own. And with so little information to really sleuth in this case, it certainly doesn't hurt.

LOL yeah, good point. But I really do think that, in a way, the "Altima" was LE's way of throwing a bone to all the Facebook detectives (as they call us) who want to help, giving something to chase and worry over. If it's found, it's a minor point that is finished, without LE hours expended further. If it's not, no biggie. And the harder it is to find, the longer they are left alone to pursue a perp, while the public is distracted looking at cars.
 
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