Found Deceased TX - Thomas Brown, 18, Hemphill County, 23 Nov 2016 #3

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OutWest

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I read everyone's comments and even though I don't always agree all imput is important.

<modsnip>

I see his diaper fetish as perhaps his way of handling stress. <modsnip>

Maybe a group of them did that as a group and TB choked out before anyone could do anything. Would kids have kept that a secret? (Especially if they did it too). Would they have protected TB and themselves by covering it up? Maybe TB participated in it himself as it relieved stress.

I'm just not picking up anything nefarious from others. But that's just my opinion.
<modsnip> I don't know how the "choking" game works.

In the last podcast by the ex state investigator, he said the M's had left Canadian. IMO, that was a wise move. Not only for them as a family (and especially for the remaining, older son) but for the town as well.

Why won't anyone discuss the possibility that TB was a part of his own demise? None of it is shameful.

@Razz, I don't believe the family has left Canadian; just moved to a different house.

I don't put any validity to the "choking game" scenario, JMO. "Choking game" obviously crossed PM's mind because some mindless teens actually do that at times across the nation; sort of like a stupid Tik-Tok challenge.

A firearm was discharged inside the vehicle and a small pistol case (rug) was found along Lake Marvin Road during the October 2017 search. We have a .25 ACP casing found in the vehicle of a missing person who did not like guns and did not shoot them. Then the small pistol case was thrown out along the road where all other evidence was found. Far too many "coincidences" to be ignored as not being absolutely relevant.

IMO, somewhere beyond the barbed wire fence along Lake Marvin Road lies a rusting 25 caliber pistol yet to be found.

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sandy_80

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there is a couple of important bits about the suicide
who really suggested the suicide verdict first.. the mom or the sheriff..
is the indigo search for suicide that night.. is enough to confirm he committed suicide.. or do they have something else more solid
who do you believe when it comes to his actual state of mind.. each party seem to be campaigning for their side.. he is either depressed or hopeful
 

Razz

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@Razz, I don't believe the family has left Canadian; just moved to a different house.

I don't put any validity to the "choking game" scenario, JMO. "Choking game" obviously crossed PM's mind because some mindless teens actually do that at times across the nation; sort of like a stupid Tik-Tok challenge.

A firearm was discharged inside the vehicle and a small pistol case (rug) was found along Lake Marvin Road during the October 2017 search. We have a .25 ACP casing found in the vehicle of a missing person who did not like guns and did not shoot them. Then the small pistol case was thrown out along the road where all other evidence was found. Far too many "coincidences" to be ignored as not being absolutely relevant.

IMO, somewhere beyond the barbed wire fence along Lake Marvin Road lies a rusting 25 caliber pistol yet to be found.

View attachment 341913
When was the last time TB was seen and what time was his credit card used and when did his phone go dark? Also, when was the truck seen traveling in the direction of his home? Is there a way we can get a timeline at the beginning of the thread? Something is bothering me and I'm trying to put my finger on it. Thank you!
 

sandy_80

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When was the last time TB was seen and what time was his credit card used and when did his phone go dark? Also, when was the truck seen traveling in the direction of his home? Is there a way we can get a timeline at the beginning of the thread? Something is bothering me and I'm trying to put my finger on it. Thank you!
last time seen ..around 11 I think ...before 12 anyway
concerning his phone.. thats not known cause the phone wasnt found..and his family isnt to be trusted on that account
 

OutWest

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When was the last time TB was seen and what time was his credit card used and when did his phone go dark? Also, when was the truck seen traveling in the direction of his home? Is there a way we can get a timeline at the beginning of the thread? Something is bothering me and I'm trying to put my finger on it. Thank you!

Swiped debit card at 11:26PM for purchase of 23 gallons fuel; phone dark at 12:13 AM; first Alexander's CCTV @ approx 1:23am & 1:24am; second Alexander's CCTV @ approx 5:40 am & 5:41 am (some say 5:25 & 5:26).
 

Razz

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Swiped debit card at 11:26PM for purchase of 23 gallons fuel; phone dark at 12:13 AM; first Alexander's CCTV @ approx 1:23am & 1:24am; second Alexander's CCTV @ approx 5:40 am & 5:41 am (some say 5:25 & 5:26).
Thank you!
 

niikkee

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@Razz, I don't believe the family has left Canadian; just moved to a different house.

I don't put any validity to the "choking game" scenario, JMO. "Choking game" obviously crossed PM's mind because some mindless teens actually do that at times across the nation; sort of like a stupid Tik-Tok challenge.

A firearm was discharged inside the vehicle and a small pistol case (rug) was found along Lake Marvin Road during the October 2017 search. We have a .25 ACP casing found in the vehicle of a missing person who did not like guns and did not shoot them. Then the small pistol case was thrown out along the road where all other evidence was found. Far too many "coincidences" to be ignored as not being absolutely relevant.

IMO, somewhere beyond the barbed wire fence along Lake Marvin Road lies a rusting 25 caliber pistol yet to be found.

View attachment 341913
I have not seen any evidence that a firearm was discharged in the vehicle only that there was a casing found inside the vehicle.

<modsnip>
 
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OutWest

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Or can be picked up from anywhere that a firearm has been discharged and other scenarios. There has been no direct evidence that a firearm was discharged in Tom’s vehicle.

Regarding the 25 caliber casing. Relative to today’s modern firearms, the 25 ACP, first developed around year 1900, is rarely utilized today due to its anemic performance and lack of practicality. If I were to go to busy shooting ranges daily to look for spent 25 ACP cases among the thousands of spent cases there would be very few days, if any, that I would find a single 25 ACP case. There are no major U.S. manufacturers that have produced pistols for that caliber for decades. However, 25 ACP pistols are not necessarily rare since there are a number of the cheap old 25’s still around in households but their actual use is uncommon today. That being said ….

A popular teen was missing and whereby an “uncommon” 25 ACP spent casing was found his vehicle along with some small amount of blood. Then along the same road where other evidence was found is found a small pistol case. How often do you find pistol cases lying in a ROW alongside Walmart bags, beer cans, and scratched lotto tickets? Never. I do not believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny and I do not believe in coincidences. Whether it be suicide or homicide, a firearm very likely contributed to Tom’s death; and based on the location of the spent casing that firearm was most likely discharged from within the Durango. Not positively; but very high probability, IMO.
 

niikkee

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Regarding the 25 caliber casing. Relative to today’s modern firearms, the 25 ACP, first developed around year 1900, is rarely utilized today due to its anemic performance and lack of practicality. If I were to go to busy shooting ranges daily to look for spent 25 ACP cases among the thousands of spent cases there would be very few days, if any, that I would find a single 25 ACP case. There are no major U.S. manufacturers that have produced pistols for that caliber for decades. However, 25 ACP pistols are not necessarily rare since there are a number of the cheap old 25’s still around in households but their actual use is uncommon today. That being said ….

A popular teen was missing and whereby an “uncommon” 25 ACP spent casing was found his vehicle along with some small amount of blood. Then along the same road where other evidence was found is found a small pistol case. How often do you find pistol cases lying in a ROW alongside Walmart bags, beer cans, and scratched lotto tickets? Never. I do not believe in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny and I do not believe in coincidences. Whether it be suicide or homicide, a firearm very likely contributed to Tom’s death; and based on the location of the spent casing that firearm was most likely discharged from within the Durango. Not positively; but very high probability, IMO.
I own a 25 and several of my friends do also. They are not popular firearms today but in the past were very popular because of the size and convenience to conceal and carry.
I only stated there was no evidence the firearm was discharged in the Durango regardless of what could/did happen.
<modsnip>
And coincidences? IMO it is not coincidence that so much was blamed on Nathan Lewis and when the truth came out it wasn’t Lewis at all…..
 
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LRDenton

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I'm not familiar with the law in the US regarding Sheriff's Offices/Police Departments sharing information with private investigators hired by the family of the cases they are running so I may be wrong, but isn't it the case that the Sheriff/PD do not have to share any information about the case at all? I.e. there's no obligation to share any more info with a Private Investigator than what they would share with the public? If I'm right - this is a question for those that think there's LE involvement in Tom's death - why would they [Sheriff] voluntarily allow the Private Investigator (PK) to see the whole case file? I find this odd if the Sheriff can simply not allow the PI to see anything at all.
 

OutWest

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I'm not familiar with the law in the US regarding Sheriff's Offices/Police Departments sharing information with private investigators hired by the family of the cases they are running so I may be wrong, but isn't it the case that the Sheriff/PD do not have to share any information about the case at all? I.e. there's no obligation to share any more info with a Private Investigator than what they would share with the public? If I'm right - this is a question for those that think there's LE involvement in Tom's death - why would they [Sheriff] voluntarily allow the Private Investigator (PK) to see the whole case file? I find this odd if the Sheriff can simply not allow the PI to see anything at all.
It is my understanding that law enforcement agencies are not obligated to share case information with the public, including PI's. Sometimes they do share limited information in a hope to generate tips, etc.
 

OutWest

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I have read the OAG information release. I have listened to numerous podcasts including the 3 recent KXDJ broadcasts. I am aware that the 31st District Attorney stated that 11 investigators beleive that the matter is suicide with family involvement somehow. I am also aware of allegations by some with issues surrounding the phone, the phone charge case & "charge event", and the alleged request for the passcode. I get it. Obviously, the phone is a central issue to this case. Yet, I have not heard a single reference by investigators (or radio guests) regarding the very peculiar battery defects and resulting erratic and unexplained phone (electronics) behavior that were common with some early Apple 6s phones and how those defects could/would have affected the operation of Tom’s Apple 6s phone. The issue was more than a battery not holding its charge; with some phones there were occasional incidents involving erratic phone behavior, possibly due to voltage fluctuations. Hence, Apple issued a worldwide recall to correct those issues. But no mention of the Apple 6s recall issue in the OAG report.

I find it very curious that evidence involving the spent shell casing and pistol case appear to be passed off as simply irrelevant by some. I am equally curious as to why some appear to pass off other evidentiary behavior as simple mistakes …. such as the loss of Dollar General and Fronk Oil videos. CCTV video from multiple other locations around town were gathered, examined, and retained ….. but the CCTV evidence from the TWO MOST IMPORTANT locations as related to the case, Dollar General and Fronk, somehow became lost. Lost? Some say “innocently mishandled”. Really? Not a coincidence.

Then there is the curious nature of the investigation focus that the family was secretly communicating with Tom while he was hiding in Denver, or wherever. There was no credible evidence of such or that Tom was alive and hiding. Not just HCSO but also Texas Ranger(s). Ghost Busters. “11” investigators from multiple agencies on the wrong trail for 2+ years. Then once the remains were found their narrative suddenly turned to suicide involving family cover-up ….. with no possibility of homicide.

My point is that the case is still open. Ther are many remaining questions. ALL evidence and circumstances must be considered. I suspect that if OAG was positively certain that Tom committed suicide and there was 0% chance of homicide, they would make that declaration and close the case. But they haven’t so far.

IMO, our justice system is the best and most fair in the world. But it is not perfect and never will be “perfect”. When I hear that the 31st District Attorney pointed out that “11” investigators from multiple agencies have concluded that Tom died of suicide and that his family is covering, I look back and see many things that appear to be yet unanswered or brushed aside as investigative incompetence; mistakes. I am also reminded that in the two separate cases of Michael Morton and Greg Kelley, there were also likely “11” investigators from multiple agencies that concluded the guilt of both men. Their assumed guilt resulted in the innocent men spending years in prison before eventually being exonerated by evidence that was, early in the case, absolutely ignored by investigators and by prosecutors. 20+ years later it was actually a competent OAG prosecutor who discovered and brought forth the hidden evidence that exonerated Michael Morton. It was a Texas Ranger who investigated and brought forth evidence that helped exonerate Greg Kelley.

Maybe investigators think they now have all of the answers to the Tom Brown case; I don’t know. Maybe they do; or maybe they don’t. They certainly have more information than is known by the general public. But the case remains open and will possibly remain open into the foreseeable future for multiple reasons, IMO.
 

sandy_80

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I'm not familiar with the law in the US regarding Sheriff's Offices/Police Departments sharing information with private investigators hired by the family of the cases they are running so I may be wrong, but isn't it the case that the Sheriff/PD do not have to share any information about the case at all? I.e. there's no obligation to share any more info with a Private Investigator than what they would share with the public? If I'm right - this is a question for those that think there's LE involvement in Tom's death - why would they [Sheriff] voluntarily allow the Private Investigator (PK) to see the whole case file? I find this odd if the Sheriff can simply not allow the PI to see anything at all.
maybe because.. they were suspicious in how they handled this case.. from refusing to investigate to returning the evidence the same day...among other things
what was their investigation anyway ?.. there has been no outcome or conclusion
all questions marks and a seeming haste to close it off unanswered
I think a movie or some real in depth doc is needed to push this into scrutiny...its still an unknown case
 
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sandy_80

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I have read the OAG information release. I have listened to numerous podcasts including the 3 recent KXDJ broadcasts. I am aware that the 31st District Attorney stated that 11 investigators beleive that the matter is suicide with family involvement somehow. I am also aware of allegations by some with issues surrounding the phone, the phone charge case & "charge event", and the alleged request for the passcode. I get it. Obviously, the phone is a central issue to this case. Yet, I have not heard a single reference by investigators (or radio guests) regarding the very peculiar battery defects and resulting erratic and unexplained phone (electronics) behavior that were common with some early Apple 6s phones and how those defects could/would have affected the operation of Tom’s Apple 6s phone. The issue was more than a battery not holding its charge; with some phones there were occasional incidents involving erratic phone behavior, possibly due to voltage fluctuations. Hence, Apple issued a worldwide recall to correct those issues. But no mention of the Apple 6s recall issue in the OAG report.

I find it very curious that evidence involving the spent shell casing and pistol case appear to be passed off as simply irrelevant by some. I am equally curious as to why some appear to pass off other evidentiary behavior as simple mistakes …. such as the loss of Dollar General and Fronk Oil videos. CCTV video from multiple other locations around town were gathered, examined, and retained ….. but the CCTV evidence from the TWO MOST IMPORTANT locations as related to the case, Dollar General and Fronk, somehow became lost. Lost? Some say “innocently mishandled”. Really? Not a coincidence.

Then there is the curious nature of the investigation focus that the family was secretly communicating with Tom while he was hiding in Denver, or wherever. There was no credible evidence of such or that Tom was alive and hiding. Not just HCSO but also Texas Ranger(s). Ghost Busters. “11” investigators from multiple agencies on the wrong trail for 2+ years. Then once the remains were found their narrative suddenly turned to suicide involving family cover-up ….. with no possibility of homicide.

My point is that the case is still open. Ther are many remaining questions. ALL evidence and circumstances must be considered. I suspect that if OAG was positively certain that Tom committed suicide and there was 0% chance of homicide, they would make that declaration and close the case. But they haven’t so far.

IMO, our justice system is the best and most fair in the world. But it is not perfect and never will be “perfect”. When I hear that the 31st District Attorney pointed out that “11” investigators from multiple agencies have concluded that Tom died of suicide and that his family is covering, I look back and see many things that appear to be yet unanswered or brushed aside as investigative incompetence; mistakes. I am also reminded that in the two separate cases of Michael Morton and Greg Kelley, there were also likely “11” investigators from multiple agencies that concluded the guilt of both men. Their assumed guilt resulted in the innocent men spending years in prison before eventually being exonerated by evidence that was, early in the case, absolutely ignored by investigators and by prosecutors. 20+ years later it was actually a competent OAG prosecutor who discovered and brought forth the hidden evidence that exonerated Michael Morton. It was a Texas Ranger who investigated and brought forth evidence that helped exonerate Greg Kelley.

Maybe investigators think they now have all of the answers to the Tom Brown case; I don’t know. Maybe they do; or maybe they don’t. They certainly have more information than is known by the general public. But the case remains open and will possibly remain open into the foreseeable future for multiple reasons, IMO.
right
can they prove it's a suicide ?
can they prove the family conspiracy ?
then release this and charge the family
or else....
 

sandy_80

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I was not sold that This Michael Crain was exactly unbiased
he is a former le.. and he was very interested in defending the crazy incompetent investigation by simply dismissing it as ( pride ) ?
he doesn't explain how this suicide happened and leaves all threads loose and dangling ..
 

MysteryRoad

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I was not sold that This Michael Crain was exactly unbiased
he is a former le.. and he was very interested in defending the crazy incompetent investigation by simply dismissing it as ( pride ) ?
he doesn't explain how this suicide happened and leaves all threads loose and dangling ..
I am not sure anyone can explain how it happened with what little forensics they could do. The same would apply to it being a homicide. So little blood in the car. He was reluctant to call out both Lewis and Klein, but I took that as more of a professional courtesy thing. The pissing match that went on both in public and private was a big hinderance and not a good look for anyone in LE. I think Crain was just trying to take the high road and stay out of the muck. If I was in need of a investigator I would rather have someone like Crain than juvenile hotheads like Klein and Lewis.
 

OutWest

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<modsnip - quoted post was removed>


<modsnip>

A few other strange things that I may point out. During the 8/21/2019 meeting in Pampa, Sgt. Kading stated that forensic analysis revealed that there was no damage or features of any sort on the skeletal remains that would indicate any trauma. Yet the 10/2021 OAG information release revealed that the skull actually did have some fairly significant injuries to the left side facial area bones (front and side). One must wonder why Sgt. Kading intentionally withheld that information in 2019, then decided to release the information two years later? I see a number of other issues that OAG appears to be not seriously considering.

We know for a fact that the investigators believed for two years that Tom was alive and hiding in Denver. Given the lack of such evidence ….. how could that happen? I am at a loss for words on that one. Such investigative oversight could tend to make a person wonder if investigators are accurately assessing & evaluating the evidence.

I agree that the unprofessional antics of Lewis and Klein had an effect early on. Now we have radio host Samples angrily joining the fray.

Then we have the radio guest, Mr. Crain who repeated a portion of what we all knew from information garnered from the OAG information release as well as many other interviews, MSM, etc. Mr. Crain simply assessed information that was already in the public forum in order to arrive at his theory. His Theory. Fine. I listened to both shows. I can respect that. However, I cannot respect that he determined that as a “former state investigator” he was now qualified to medically diagnose a psychological condition for a person in regard to some incident that allegedly happened to a teenager 50+ years ago. An incident that he heard of in the local rumor mill. Then, Dr. Crain was happy to broadcast his medical “diagnosis” across the airwaves of north Texas. Why would he go to that length to attempt to just to prove his point? Very telling. IMO, Dr. Crain did not prove any point; he only caused additional anguish to others; to the victims in this case. Maybe he can turn his diagnosis inward ……
 
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