TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #2

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Wise Old Owl

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The commander at the scene of a shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, was not informed of panicked 911 calls coming from students trapped inside the building as the massacre unfolded, a Texas state senator said Thursday.

Sen. Roland Gutierrez said the pleas for help from people inside Robb Elementary School on May 24 did not make their way to school district police Chief Pete Arredondo. The Democratic senator called it a “system failure” that calls were going to the city police but were not communicated to Arredondo.

“I want to know specifically who was receiving the 911 calls,” Gutierrez said during a news conference, adding that no single person or entity was fully to blame for the massacre.


BBM

Gutierrez said during a news conference, adding that no single person or entity was fully to blame for the massacre.


THERE IT IS!

I rest my case.


ETA - and this is coming from a Senator - an elected official.
 

MsBetsy

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The commander at the scene of a shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, was not informed of panicked 911 calls coming from students trapped inside the building as the massacre unfolded, a Texas state senator said Thursday.

Sen. Roland Gutierrez said the pleas for help from people inside Robb Elementary School on May 24 did not make their way to school district police Chief Pete Arredondo. The Democratic senator called it a “system failure” that calls were going to the city police but were not communicated to Arredondo.

“I want to know specifically who was receiving the 911 calls,” Gutierrez said during a news conference, adding that no single person or entity was fully to blame for the massacre.


So did Arredondo not have a radio or was the information not relayed to him by the city police? Did the officers themselves not know who was in charge?

What a colossal screw up.
 

Friday Fan

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So did Arredondo not have a radio or was the information not relayed to him by the city police? Did the officers themselves not know who was in charge?

What a colossal screw up.
MOO MOO MOO I think the info was probably not relayed by city police. I know the city handles 911.
This seems the most likely MOO MOO MOO
 

Seattle1

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Right from the school district website. This is considered a separate policing unit from the local town PD or the sheriff's office.

A lot of districts - and all the ones that I have taught in - the SRO's all are sheriff deputies - there is an agreement between the sheriff's office and the school board in how to handle or split the salaries of these SRO's - how many the sheriff will provide, etc. etc.

In urban areas where there is a school district police unit - they are usually the first to respond and then depending on the severity of the incident - if needed will acquiesce to the local town PD or sheriff's deputies when they arrive.

In the case where the SRO is a sworn sheriff's deputy - well then, obviously the sheriff's office will have command of the scene.
No, my quoted post was not direct from the school district website but tweeted by UCISD. However, the Robb Elementary/UCISD site identifies the same.

In a separate MSM posted up-thread, I confirmed Uvalde City Police is a separate force that has about 40 officers on the payroll. Per the District website, there is also a "security officer" not included in the 6- person District police force, that appears to be assigned at Uvalde High School.

From various reports over the past 9 days, it appears to me that Robb Elementary did not have a dedicated RSO, instead, about 8 schools share one RSO.

I still find it odd that after it was reported that the RSO heard the 911 call on his radio and traveled to Robb, did not see the shooter hiding behind parked cars, encountering only a teacher, it's like he dropped off the planet -- nothing further reported on his actions (or inaction) at the school or elsewhere. Did he go to lunch, the dentist, what happened to the RSO?!! MOO
 

Wise Old Owl

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The very first question I had the day this broke was:

HOW DID HE GET IN???

It all starts with THAT DOOR. Now the teacher has come forward saying "yes, she propped open the door with a rock BUT she kicked it away and shut that door once she knew something was going on".

OK

But when the door closed - it did not lock. She didn't know that.

SO

Someone had unlocked that door with a key PRIOR to her coming out the first time and propping it open. Why would she have propped it open IF she knew it was open or IF she had a key?

Those are called panic / fire doors - the ones with the bar on the inside. They will ALWAYS open from the inside by hitting the bar. It is the outside of the door that has a dead-bolt type key hole. AND they have to be manually UNLOCKED from the outside with a key.

So, someone, some time that day came by and unlocked that door - for whatever reason. They neglected to RE-LOCK the door when they walked away. (Or it was unlocked because it was an awards ceremony day - to let parents in and out and no one thought to re-lock it once the ceremony was over).

Either way - I know there was a school policy - ALL DOORS LOCKED AT ALL TIMES. So, someone broke policy - that starts the liability chain.

I want to know the story of that door. Being that it was an outside door - there should have been a camera trained on it - and I sure hope there was. THAT footage will tell the tale about who and when that door was unlocked.




JMHO
 
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Friday Fan

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I still find it odd that after it was reported that the RSO heard the 911 call on his radio and traveled to Robb, did not see the shooter hiding behind parked cars, encountering only a teacher, it's like he dropped off the planet -- nothing further reported on his actions (or inaction) at the school or elsewhere. Did he go to lunch, the dentist, what happened to the RSO?!! MOO
Yes, this is unclear/vague
 

Wise Old Owl

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No, my quoted post was not direct from the school district website but tweeted by UCISD. However, the Robb Elementary/UCISD site identifies the same.

In a separate MSM posted up-thread, I confirmed Uvalde City Police is a separate force that has about 40 officers on the payroll. Per the website, there is also a "security officer" not included in the 6- person District police force, that appears to be assigned at Uvalde High School.

From various reports over the past 9 days, it appears to me that Robb Elementary did not have a dedicated RSO, instead, about 8 schools share one RSO.

I still find it odd that after it was reported that the RSO heard the 911 call on his radio and traveled to Robb, did not see the shooter hiding behind parked cars, encountering only a teacher, it's like he dropped off the planet -- nothing further reported on his actions (or inaction) at the school or elsewhere. Did he go to lunch, the dentist, what happened to the RSO?!! MOO
Yes yes and yes.

When the SRO heard the call over the radio that the funeral home people called. He sped to the school and drove the perimeter to see what he could see. Shooter ducked between cars in the parking lot and SRO didn't see him. SRO SHOULD HAVE drove THROUGH that parking lot - for that very reason - someone hiding between cars. But, instead drove the perimeter - saw the teacher - and then what? It gets muddy on what, where and when that SRO did next.

He should have patrolled that parking lot instead of just driving by it.

 
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Seattle1

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The commander at the scene of a shooting at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, was not informed of panicked 911 calls coming from students trapped inside the building as the massacre unfolded, a Texas state senator said Thursday.

Sen. Roland Gutierrez said the pleas for help from people inside Robb Elementary School on May 24 did not make their way to school district police Chief Pete Arredondo. The Democratic senator called it a “system failure” that calls were going to the city police but were not communicated to Arredondo.

“I want to know specifically who was receiving the 911 calls,” Gutierrez said during a news conference, adding that no single person or entity was fully to blame for the massacre.


OK, so technically the school chief, PA, was not informed of the 911 calls -- but what does it say when his district officer Ruiz, husband of teacher Eva Mireles, talked to him on the phone after she had been shot?
 

Seattle1

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"A SRO is not assigned to the campus.
This is not unusual for elementary schools in small/rural districts."

After Sandy Hook and Robb Elementary, I think they need to reconsider.
It's my understanding that after Sandy Hook, most district police forces (including but not limited to Uvalde) are the result of federal dollars responsible for their existence. Following the money, I'd say that if the district wanted to expand their force, they'd probably have to come up with state/city dollars to fund that position. MOO
 

Seattle1

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Shouldn't an SRO be posted visibly in front of the school or by the front desk?
I saw this yesterday on the Today Show where in the aftermath of the Uvalde school shooting, a father in Killeen, TX has been standing guard in front of his son's school. Seems he's now been joined by a mother that's also volunteering to stand guard at the school entrance.

 

Friday Fan

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OK, so technically the school chief, PA, was not informed of the 911 calls -- but what does it say when his district officer Ruiz, husband of teacher Eva Mireles, talked to him on the phone after she had been shot?
We don't know
Officer Ruiz declined a request for an interview.
Mr. Mitchell (the County Judge**-see note) said he did not know if the school district officer (Ruiz) had told the chief of his six-member department, Pete Arredondo, about the call.



**In Texas the County Judge is a management position and NOT a judicial position. (I know, confusing terminology) The County Judge is the head of county government, who presides over County Commissioners. It's the highest level in county government, but it is separate from judicial and law enforcement. Some states have other terminology like "County Manager". The County Commissioners meet weekly and decide on county projects such as budgets, tax rates, streets, drainage, facilities etc etc.
 
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Seattle1

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I wonder if the door was left unlocked because of the ceremony that day. She said the door could be locked only by turning the key from inside, so was it common for the key to be left in the lock?

Did the killer know the door might be unlocked or did he just take a chance on it being open?
The 4th grade teacher/witness from Robb that gave an exclusive to DM today, also provided that she heard a loud bang/shake where she thinks the shooter first attempted a different door to enter the school. I posted the DM link earlier.
 

WingsOverTX

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The very first question I had the day this broke was:

HOW DID HE GET IN???

It all starts with THAT DOOR. Now the teacher has come forward saying "yes, she propped open the door with a rock BUT she kicked it away and shut that door once she knew something was going on".

OK

But when the door closed - it did not lock. She didn't know that.

SO

Someone had unlocked that door with a key PRIOR to her coming out the first time and propping it open. Why would she have propped it open IF she knew it was open or IF she had a key?

Those are called panic / fire doors - the ones with the bar on the inside. They will ALWAYS open from the inside by hitting the bar. It is the outside of the door that has a dead-bolt type key hole. AND they have to be manually UNLOCKED from the outside with a key.

So, someone, some time that day came by and unlocked that door - for whatever reason. They neglected to RE-LOCK the door when they walked away. (Or it was unlocked because it was an awards ceremony day - to let parents in and out and no one thought to re-lock it once the ceremony was over).

Either way - I know there was a school policy - ALL DOORS LOCKED AT ALL TIMES. So, someone broke policy - that starts the liability chain.

I want to know the story of that door. Being that it was an outside door - there should have been a camera trained on it - and I sure hope there was. THAT footage will tell the tale about who and when that door was unlocked.



JMHO
I appreciate your thoughts but considering all that we don't know, it's pure speculation, including my observations.

To me staff & teachers giving "their side of the story" interviews cannot be relied on for a clear understanding of THAT DOOR, either. They really are not helpful since they raise more questions rather than providing clear answers.

I'm not as angry about the door or the guns or anything as I am about the family, school & community environment that created this shooter.

We will never have perfectly secured buildings no matter how much we quarterback after the fact. If it wasn't THAT DOOR, he would have found another way to get in.

This shooter (who follows a known pattern of other school shooters) & the LE response having severe inadequacies are the ultimate problems here.

I'd like to ask his former teachers for insights about the shooter. That interests me. Because the unaddressed red flags throughout his life led to this. We need to be able to handle distressed children better. Look at Ethan Crumbley. The interventions were missing then completely inadequate. Why?

JMHO
 

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What I find so unsettling is that the District police force and the local police force seem to be two completely separate identities and don't seem to collaborate well in my opinion. Not bashing LE, I just think the entities could be more connected.... JUST MY OPINION
 

Friday Fan

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What I find so unsettling is that the District police force and the local police force seem to be two completely separate identities and don't seem to collaborate well in my opinion. Not bashing LE, I just think the entities could be more connected.... JUST MY OPINION
MOO MOO MOO You would think this would have been something that would have been addressed in their active shooter drills.
I do feel that PA as incident commander was in over his head, but this should have been something that came up in active shooter drills...How would they interact with 911, backup etc????
 
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Seattle1

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Nope - there was never a policy or mandate that said districts had to have their own police unit. I do believe it said that SRO's should be on every campus. Most - if not all - districts contract with the sheriff's office (they use sheriff's because a sheriff has jurisdiction over the entire county whereas local city police depts. only have jurisdiction within their own city limits). These agreements usually have to be re-visited at the beginning of each school year by the school board - it will be in their meeting agendas. As for the fed requiring, paying, or grants? Nope - you are on your own.



Document Title: School Safety Policies and Programs Administered by the U.S. Federal Government: 1990–2016 Author(s): Marieke Brock, Norma Kriger, Ramón Miró
Document Number: 251517
Date Received: February 2018
Award Number: 2015-CKR-4949



JMHO
@Wise_Old_Owl, I'm sorry if my post was unclear. I did not mean to imply this was a mandatory policy when I stated that most schools took advantage of federal dollars available after Sandy Hook for a school police force. Clearly, many schools do not apply for federal funds for various reasons including not wanting to comply with the strings attached (i.e., requirements by the federal government for grants or matching dollars).
For example, just as TX Gov Abbot decided to opt out of further federal unemployment compensation related to the COVID-19 pandemic, the same decision can be made to opt out of federal dollars for school district police. :)

ETA: add link
 
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Wise Old Owl

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@Wise_Old_Owl, I'm sorry if my post was unclear. I did not mean to imply this was a mandatory policy when I stated that most schools took advantage of federal dollars available after Sandy Hook for a school police force. Clearly, many schools do not apply for federal funds for various reasons including not wanting to comply with the strings attached (i.e., requirements by the federal government for grants or matching dollars).
For example, just as TX Gov Abbot decided to opt out of further federal unemployment compensation related to the COVID-19 pandemic, the same decision can be made to opt out of federal dollars for school district police. :)
Its ok - I umderstand. In fact, you even got me thinking about the COVID money all the schools have left over and are now trying to decide how to use it - maybe it could be used to help the schools greatly improve in this area?
 
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