TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #2

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Seattle1

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I was reading a report by a criminologist with data on school shootings beginning in 1966 with some interesting stats:

Since 1966 --there have been 13 school shootings across the US, first was in Stockton, CA in 1989.

Four of those shootings-- including Robb Elementary, included killing a family member at another location.

The majority of mass school shootings were carried out by a lone gunman, with just two – Columbine and the 1998 shooting at Westside School in Jonesboro, Arkansas – carried out by two gunmen. In all, some 146 people were killed in the attacks and at least 182 victims injured.

All of the mass school shootings in the database were carried out by men/boys -- the average age of 18. [This fits the picture that's emerged of the Robb Elementary School shooter].

We know that most school shooters have a connection to the school they target. Twelve of the 14 school shooters in our database prior to the most recent attack in Texas were either current or former students of the school. (Any prior connection between the SR and Robb Elementary School has not been released to the public).

For most perpetrators, the mass shooting event is intended to be a final act.

And school shooters tend to preempt their attacks by leaving posts, messages or videos warning of their intent.

Inspired by past school shooters, some perpetrators are seeking fame and notoriety. However, most school shooters are motivated by a generalized anger. Their path to violence involves self-hate and despair turned outward at the world, and our research finds they often communicate their intent to do harm in advance as a final, desperate cry for help.

 

tayaway

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"The scene was complete chaos"


How many lives were saved b/c both off-duty and working CBP officers showed up? How long would it have gone on if CBP hadn't engaged the shooter? Their tactical unit didn't arrive until aprox an hour after the attack started and yet they quickly took control of the situation and killed the shooter. Did the local LE in charge get fired yet?
 

Dotta

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Facinatingtimes

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I appreciate your thoughts but considering all that we don't know, it's pure speculation, including my observations.

To me staff & teachers giving "their side of the story" interviews cannot be relied on for a clear understanding of THAT DOOR, either. They really are not helpful since they raise more questions rather than providing clear answers.

I'm not as angry about the door or the guns or anything as I am about the family, school & community environment that created this shooter.

We will never have perfectly secured buildings no matter how much we quarterback after the fact. If it wasn't THAT DOOR, he would have found another way to get in.

This shooter (who follows a known pattern of other school shooters) & the LE response having severe inadequacies are the ultimate problems here.

I'd like to ask his former teachers for insights about the shooter. That interests me. Because the unaddressed red flags throughout his life led to this. We need to be able to handle distressed children better. Look at Ethan Crumbley. The interventions were missing then completely inadequate. Why?

JMHO
The red flags aspect of these shootings angers me the most as well.
 

sds71

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Emilia Marin, an educator at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas, was walking outside the school on May 24 to help a coworker bring in food for an end-of-the-year party when she saw a vehicle crash, according to her attorney. ..

Marin went inside the school to report the crash and had left the door propped open with a rock, according to Flanary, who is assisting Marin with a possible civil claim against the makers of the weapon used in the slaughter…

When Marin returned to the door – still on the line with 911 operators – she saw her coworker fleeing and heard people across the street at a funeral home yelling, “He’s got a gun!”

Marin saw the 18-year-old gunman approach, Flanary said, so she kicked the door shut and ran to a nearby adjoining classroom, huddling underneath a counter.
It was there that Marin heard gunshots, Flanary said – first outdoors, then inside the school…

The gunman targeted another classroom and never encountered Marin, her attorney said. Her grandson, who is a student at Robb Elementary, also was elsewhere and survived. Yet Marin’s ordeal soon was exacerbated in the days following the shooting after authorities said the gunman gained entry into the school through a door left propped open…

While Marin has no plans to sue the school, police or school district, Flanary said, a petition was filed Thursday to depose Daniel Defense, the manufacturer of the firearm used in the attack, according to a court filing obtained by CNN.

The pre-suit petition does not accuse the gun manufacturer of any wrongdoing but seeks to investigate whether the Petitioner has any basis to file a claim against Daniel Defense.


 
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x_files

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BBM
Created in 2019, the Texas Child Mental Health Care Consortium identifies distressed students and refers them to mental health services.
....

[T]he Texas Child Mental Health Care Consortium of experts operating from a dozen universities across the state has treated more than 6,000 students identified by school staff, doctors and others — including those at high risk for hurting themselves or others
....

[Uvalde] school district was on the list to be offered entry into the program, but it has not been formally included yet because the program is still ramping up, said Dr. Steven R. Pliszka, chair of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at UT Health San Antonio and administrator of the university’s consortium-funded program.

The gap was simply a matter of timing and resources available to a brand-new program still trying to build partnerships with school districts across the state, he said.

“We kind of reached a limit to our staffing in the first round of funding and we were planning to reach out to more rural districts, and Uvalde was obviously on our list,” he said. “Sadly, this happened before we could make that connection.”

I think we need to fully fund the program.
 

x_files

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I think, and this is JMHO only - that these shooters go to elementary schools and target young children because that was a time in THEIR LIFE when things really started to "go wrong" or when the bullying started (for some shooters) or just their own thoughts and ideations began to go awry. And that has played on them for years so when the idea and/or plan to shoot up a school start to take hold - they revert back to that time.

But again, that's JMHO

I am thinking the same.
 

Friday Fan

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I thought the FBI was taking charge of the investigation?
DOJ is conducting a "review" and the local news emphasized that it is not an "investigation"
It's through their Community Organized Policing Unit - it's not the FBI COPS OFFICE
There will be no subpoenas etc.
It's about what "went wrong" and "how to improve future responses"
They will make a report at the end.
 

Seattle1

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Emilia Marin, an educator at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas, was walking outside the school on May 24 to help a coworker bring in food for an end-of-the-year party when she saw a vehicle crash, according to her attorney. ..

Marin went inside the school to report the crash and had left the door propped open with a rock, according to Flanary, who is assisting Marin with a possible civil claim against the makers of the weapon used in the slaughter…

When Marin returned to the door – still on the line with 911 operators – she saw her coworker fleeing and heard people across the street at a funeral home yelling, “He’s got a gun!”

Marin saw the 18-year-old gunman approach, Flanary said, so she kicked the door shut and ran to a nearby adjoining classroom, huddling underneath a counter.
It was there that Marin heard gunshots, Flanary said – first outdoors, then inside the school…

The gunman targeted another classroom and never encountered Marin, her attorney said. Her grandson, who is a student at Robb Elementary, also was elsewhere and survived. Yet Marin’s ordeal soon was exacerbated in the days following the shooting after authorities said the gunman gained entry into the school through a door left propped open…

While Marin has no plans to sue the school, police or school district, Flanary said, a petition was filed Thursday to depose Daniel Defense, the manufacturer of the firearm used in the attack, according to a court filing obtained by CNN.

The pre-suit petition does not accuse the gun manufacturer of any wrongdoing but seeks to investigate whether the Petitioner has any basis to file a claim against Daniel Defense.



I hoped to read an account that would clarify exactly how many teachers were outside but instead, I'm more confused:

EM was walking outside, saw the crash, and went inside to call 911 -- leaving the propped door open. When EM returned to the (open) door, still on the phone with 911, she saw her co-worker fleeing, and heard people at the funeral home (across the street) warning SR had a gun. When EM saw SR approaching, she kicked the door shut.

Was the fleeing co-worker outside? Was the fleeing co-worker the first teacher to prop open the door with a rock?

Yesterday's account by NO, a 4th-grade teacher, claims an unnamed staff member went out the door to collect their cell phone.

That day, Ogburn said, the staff member, who she declined to name, had gone out to retrieve a cellphone from her car which was 'just outside the door.' .... 'She ran back inside the same door she came out of in fear for her life. She must have panicked,' she said.

 

Wise Old Owl

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I hoped to read an account that would clarify exactly how many teachers were outside but instead, I'm more confused:

EM was walking outside, saw the crash, and went inside to call 911 -- leaving the propped door open. When EM returned to the (open) door, still on the phone with 911, she saw her co-worker fleeing, and heard people at the funeral home (across the street) warning SR had a gun. When EM saw SR approaching, she kicked the door shut.

Was the fleeing co-worker outside? Was the fleeing co-worker the first teacher to prop open the door with a rock?

Yesterday's account by NO, a 4th-grade teacher, claims an unnamed staff member went out the door to collect their cell phone.

That day, Ogburn said, the staff member, who she declined to name, had gone out to retrieve a cellphone from her car which was 'just outside the door.' .... 'She ran back inside the same door she came out of in fear for her life. She must have panicked,' she said.

I'll jump in here because I have questions too

Was the fleeing co-worker the one the SRO mistook for the shooter when he drove by the parking lot?


"McCraw also revealed Friday that the gunman entered the school through a back door that minutes before had been propped open by a teacher. He said a police officer employed by the school district responded to an initial 911 call about an armed man near the school — but drove past the gunman, who was “hunkered down” behind a vehicle, and mistook a teacher for the shooter."



And no where in any of these witness accounts or statements from authorities have they addressed if the "propped open" door was, indeed, unlocked. So...............

Who initially unlocked that door? Was it even unlocked (given that is how he got in)

Obviously these teacher witness accounts admit to propping the door so they didn't know it was unlocked from the outside. You prop a door open so you can get back in - in case the door closes, (if you know it is unlocked -well then, no need to prop it open)

Such muddy waters here...................................wish we could get some answers.


JMHO
 
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Friday Fan

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I'll jump in here because I have questions too

Was the fleeing co-worker the one the SRO mistook for the shooter when he drove by the parking lot?


"McCraw also revealed Friday that the gunman entered the school through a back door that minutes before had been propped open by a teacher. He said a police officer employed by the school district responded to an initial 911 call about an armed man near the school — but drove past the gunman, who was “hunkered down” behind a vehicle, and mistook a teacher for the shooter."



And no where in any of these witness accounts or statements from authorities have they addressed if the "propped open" door was, indeed, unlocked. So...............

Who initially unlocked that door? Was it even unlocked (given that is how he got in)

Obviously these teacher witness accounts admit to propping the door so they didn't know it was unlocked from the outside. You prop a door open so you can get back in - in case the door closes.

Such muddy waters here...................................wish we could get some answers.


JMHO
I'm "skeptical" of the SRO who spotted a teacher in the parking lot....
Many things in the narrative are subject to change....

The teacher retained an attorney to get her name cleared and sure enough they examined video and found that the door was closed.

The SRO who spotted the teacher hasn't spoken about it publicly, so I don't think we're gonna find out in the near future.

Maybe someone will say something.....
 

Dawookie

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How many lives were saved b/c both off-duty and working CBP officers showed up? How long would it have gone on if CBP hadn't engaged the shooter? Their tactical unit didn't arrive until aprox an hour after the attack started and yet they quickly took control of the situation and killed the shooter. Did the local LE in charge get fired yet?
The latest BP arrived was 12:15 and didn't go in until the very end. They stood around around for at least half an hour before they disobeyed the command to stand down
 

sds71

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@nytimes
The police chief who oversaw the response to a mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas, arrived on scene without his police radio, a law enforcement official said. A tactical team ultimately ignored directives not to breach the classroom

Using a cellphone, the chief called a police land line with a message that set the stage for what would prove to be a disastrous delay in interrupting the attack: The gunman has an AR-15, he told them, but he is contained; we need more firepower and we need the building surrounded…

The officers who finally breached the locked classrooms with a janitor’s key were not a formal tactical unit, according to a person briefed on the response. The officers, including specially trained Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and a sheriff’s deputy, formed an ad hoc group on their own and gathered in the hallway outside the classroom, a tense space where they said there appeared to be no chain of command…

They continued even after one of them heard a command crackling in his ear piece: Do not breach.

As the agents entered, the gunman appeared to be ready for them, the person said. He fired. They fired back, with at least one bullet striking him in the head.

A bullet fragment also grazed the head of one of the Border Patrol agents.

 
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Seattle1

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Yes, yes. What's the truth about the door's lock mechanism? What key?

And no where in any of these witness accounts or statements from authorities have they addressed if the "propped open" door was, indeed, unlocked. So...............

Who initially unlocked that door? Was it even unlocked (given that is how he got in) ^^rsbm

'It's a locked door,' but, she explained, 'It's not uncommon for someone to use a rock and put inside the doorframe so the door can't shut all of the way, when they run out to their car to get something.'

She said the door can only be locked from the inside, so if someone goes out of it, they have to keep it ajar and reach inside to turn the key.

This tedious process, she said, is why several of faculty members instead opt for using a rock to temporarily keep the door ajar and prevent it from closing.


 

Wise Old Owl

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Yes, yes. What's the truth about the door's lock mechanism? What key?



'It's a locked door,' but, she explained, 'It's not uncommon for someone to use a rock and put inside the doorframe so the door can't shut all of the way, when they run out to their car to get something.'

She said the door can only be locked from the inside, so if someone goes out of it, they have to keep it ajar and reach inside to turn the key.

This tedious process, she said, is why several of faculty members instead opt for using a rock to temporarily keep the door ajar and prevent it from closing.


yep yep and yep

BUT - "door can only be locked from the inside" - THAT MAKES NO SENSE. Panic/Fire doors - which is what this is (that's what they call them) - they have that "bar" on the inside of the door that all you have to do is push and the door opens - ALL those doors I have ever encountered - albeit schools, courthouses, stadiums, hotels, etc. - the "key hole" for that door is on the "opposite side" or egress side of the door - NEVER on the same side as the "bar". They are not to be locked on the inside (meaning the inside part of the door always has to be open - push the bar - in case of fire or other immediate evacuation) So the only way that door is locked is on the outside - you can lock someone OUT of that door BUT you can't lock someone INSIDE with that door -does that make sense?

That door had a key lock hole on the outside and someone had to have unlocked it for that door to be opened by the shooter from the outside. Or........................................they can always "find" that the door mechanism "failed" when the teacher shut it and "didn't properly engage". And , JMHO, that is where this whole "open door" narrative is going to go................................................................sad


JMHO
 
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