TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #2

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At least a dozen Texas Department of Public Safety troopers waited in the hallway of an elementary school while a gunman was locked inside a classroom with children last month in Uvalde, according to state Sen. Ronald Gutierrez.

The San Antonio Express-News reported Monday that Gutierrez was told by DPS Director Steven McCraw in a recent exchange that as many as 13 troopers had responded to the incident on May 24. Nineteen children and two teachers died in the massacre.
“He told me there was enough people and equipment to breach the door,” Gutierrez told the Express-News

 
Any law that can be misused to prevent release of public information is a bad law IMO.

Legislators need to do a better job of examining potential unintended consequences that deny the media, and thereby the public, access to actions by the government.

Having to fix a problem like this once the unintended consequences are enshrined in law is deplorable - but all too familiar - public policy.

The reason given for refusing release - allowing criminals insight into LE tactics - is without merit in my view. And is a particularly aggregious overstep in this case where getting at the truth is essential.

“To understand what our government is doing should not be that difficult — and right now it is very difficult.” - Democratic state Rep. Joe Moody of El Paso


The loophole was created in the 1990s to protect those wrongfully accused or whose cases were dismissed, according to Kelley Shannon, executive director of the Freedom of Information Foundation of Texas. “It is meant to protect the innocent,” Shannon said. But she said that in some cases “it is being used and misused in a way that was never intended.”

Following the shooting, Texas House of Representatives Speaker Dade Phelan, a Republican, took to Twitter to voice his continued support for closing the loophole during the Texas Legislature’s next session, which begins in January 2023.

“More than anything, the families of the Uvalde victims need honest answers and transparency,” Phelan tweeted. He said it would be “absolutely unconscionable” to deny information based on the “dead suspect loophole.”
 
Actually, the mother is on probation for prior offenses. She was asked by the US Marshall to move her vehicle and she refused to cooperate (obstruction) -- all before she jumped the fence and rushed the classrooms of her children that were being safely evacuated. Mom also said it was a Uvalde officer at the scene she knew personally that released her (from US Marshall) prior to jumping the fence. Perhaps It was the very same friendly officer that was giving her a heads up about being careful talking out not to impede her probation that's now being accused of threatening her with probation violation?

Always a problem when only one side of the story is reported (and by DM).
That US Marshal did not arrest her and this woman eventually entered the school and rescued her own children. She isn't going to face any charges regardless of what Uvaldi police officers may be threatening. the Uvaldi City Attorney needs to be shutting these guys down.
 
All True.

And, I am stuck with the thought that these people assembled for over an hour waiting for the police to act. We have all been told that in these scenarios seconds and minutes matter. So, these people are watching them do "nothing" (Of course, we now know they were doing something-- trying to find the right key among 77 of them, JMHO) or little action. They can hear that there is no radio communication because the chief didn't have his.

We have also had people say that LE don't have to go in and put themselves in harms way.

Who then does it? How can LE claim the perimeter and still have the opportunity to say that they have the right to not go in? If this was my children, I might have done the same. These are the things that these folks were grappling with when they disobeyed orders to not go in AND they were seeing LE not going in. Probation or not, I can't imagine the agony of knowing that my child is at risk and having to just stand by when it seems that others are just standing by. JMHO.
^^rsbm

Respectfully, seems to me that too many are forgetting and failing to recognize that more than 500 students were inside the school at the time the shooter was locked in a solo wing of Robb (inside joined rooms 111 & 112).

The 500+ children (non-4th graders), not near the rooms 111-112 or the line of gunfire were simultaneously being safely evacuated through windows by police responders from far and wide on the scene. Evacuations included the classrooms of the children (non-4th grade) of the mother that stormed her own children's classrooms.

And it was critical that the school perimeter was secured for the evacuated students to have direct, safe, passage to the buses waiting to expeditiously transport them to the designated reunification area where parents were anxiously waiting for their children. Fortunately, the majority of parents followed the command of the US Marshalls.

The reunification procedure had long been part of the school's lockdown drills practiced by students and teachers and known to the parents. All is outlined in the student/parent handbooks available on the school and district website. I wish police that carried out rescue/evacuation/reunification would get recognition for what police did right and the hundreds of lives saved by their actions. MOO
 
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^^rsbm

Respectfully, seems to me that too many are forgetting and failing to recognize that more than 500 students were inside the school at the time the shooter was locked in a solo wing of Robb (inside joined rooms 111 & 112).

The 500+ children (non-4th graders), not near the rooms 111-112 or the line of gunfire were simultaneously being safely evacuated through windows by police responders from far and wide on the scene. Evacuations included the classrooms of the children (non-4th grade) of the mother that stormed her own children's classrooms.

And it was critical that the school perimeter was secured for the evacuated students to have direct, safe, passage to the buses waiting to expeditiously transport them to the designated reunification area where parents were anxiously waiting for their children. Fortunately, the majority of parents followed the command of the US Marshalls.

The reunification procedure had long been part of the school's lockdown drills practiced by students and teachers and known to the parents. All is outlined in the student/parent handbooks available on the school and district website. I wish police that carried out rescue/evacuation/reunification would get recognition for what police did right and the hundreds of lives saved by their actions. MOO
Why were US Marshals involved in this at all?
 
That US Marshal did not arrest her and this woman eventually entered the school and rescued her own children. She isn't going to face any charges regardless of what Uvaldi police officers may be threatening. the Uvaldi City Attorney needs to be shutting these guys down.
The threat allegedly came from an unnamed local police officer. Mom also won't name the officer that they can respond to allegations.

In Tx, officers don't threaten offenders with arrest when serving probation for unrelated, prior offenses. This (arrest) is handled directly by the offender's probation officer that makes the call when to seek an arrest warrant signed by a judge for violating the terms of probation/parole.
 
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^^rsbm

Respectfully, seems to me that too many are forgetting and failing to recognize that more than 500 students were inside the school at the time the shooter was locked in a solo wing of Robb (inside joined rooms 111 & 112).

The 500+ children (non-4th graders), not near the rooms 111-112 or the line of gunfire were simultaneously being safely evacuated through windows by police responders from far and wide on the scene. Evacuations included the classrooms of the children (non-4th grade) of the mother that stormed her own children's classrooms.

And it was critical that the school perimeter was secured for the evacuated students to have direct, safe, passage to the buses waiting to expeditiously transport them to the designated reunification area where parents were anxiously waiting for their children. Fortunately, the majority of parents followed the command of the US Marshalls.

The reunification procedure had long been part of the school's lockdown drills practiced by students and teachers and known to the parents. All is outlined in the student/parent handbooks available on the school and district website. I wish police that carried out rescue/evacuation/reunification would get recognition for what police did right and the hundreds of lives saved by their actions. MOO

No argument from me on what you wrote. That said, if people are feeling like they are doing nothing that long a time frame is going to compel people who have loved ones in there to act. More so, now that the narrative of LE holding back to protect their own safety (a concept I understand but have an issue with--gotta hold your own because we might not risk our lives for you which is a shift from earlier policing narratives) has been floated and in some cases supported, I think you will have more people who break that perimeter when the next school shooting happens.

You are right to point out the outline for reunification practice and that they did rescue many kids. No doubt in my mind. But, the failures with realization that lives might have been saved totally obscures that. In reality, they may have spent time and money on their drills and their manuals but they seemed totally unprepared-- and it is hard to trust people who don't seem to know what they are doing.

As with other school shootings, I recognize that I am hard on officials-- school and LEO-- as we have all been on notice from Columbine and, then, Sandy Hook to get our acts together and make our environments as bullet proof as possible. I say this as a person who has been a school building leader and teacher for decades. As people who work in schools, there are consultants, conferences, updates, materials guidelines, etc to utilize to make a plan. And, if these kinds of guns are here to stay, we need to make darn sure that our policies, procedures and people are up to the task. JMHO.
 
No argument from me on what you wrote. That said, if people are feeling like they are doing nothing that long a time frame is going to compel people who have loved ones in there to act. More so, now that the narrative of LE holding back to protect their own safety (a concept I understand but have an issue with--gotta hold your own because we might not risk our lives for you which is a shift from earlier policing narratives) has been floated and in some cases supported, I think you will have more people who break that perimeter when the next school shooting happens.

You are right to point out the outline for reunification practice and that they did rescue many kids. No doubt in my mind. But, the failures with realization that lives might have been saved totally obscures that. In reality, they may have spent time and money on their drills and their manuals but they seemed totally unprepared-- and it is hard to trust people who don't seem to know what they are doing.

As with other school shootings, I recognize that I am hard on officials-- school and LEO-- as we have all been on notice from Columbine and, then, Sandy Hook to get our acts together and make our environments as bullet proof as possible. I say this as a person who has been a school building leader and teacher for decades. As people who work in schools, there are consultants, conferences, updates, materials guidelines, etc to utilize to make a plan. And, if these kinds of guns are here to stay, we need to make darn sure that our policies, procedures and people are up to the task. JMHO.
very well put.
 

Training. Training. More training. You can't have interagency missions/responses without training. Custodian with multiple key rings. Training. Why not shoot the bad guy through a window? Oh, LE has no idea where their assets are because there is no radio on the Chief. Training. The people of Uvalde deservean accounting as to how their money was spent.
 

6/10/11

[..]

The BORTAC members who arrived at Robb first were not part of a single team, according to a CBP official with direct knowledge of what occurred, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share preliminary details of the investigation. One was a field-level supervisor, the CBP official said. Several had been conducting routine patrol duties that day.

BORTAC members do not typically carry battering rams and ballistic shields in their vehicles unless they're preparing for a specific tactical operation against a target such as a stash house, the official said.

In other tactical operations, BORTAC teams might position sharpshooters to track targets through windows. But the classroom windows at Robb were tinted or obscured by blinds, the official said, and with the lights off it was impossible for the officers and agents outside to see where the shooter was.

A U.S. Marshal brought the shield to the tactical team, or "stack," that was preparing to enter the classroom and confront the shooter. Once the officers on scene were able to unlock the doors, the BORTAC agents led a small team into the classroom. The gunman opened fire, police have said, and agents killed him.

[..]
 

Texas Gov. Abbott’s notes shed light on who ‘misled’ him during school shooting​

All I'm seeing is a lot of scapegoating and blame being thrown around at various individuals, when in MY opinion, there are failures all the way around, from the School District police force to the Governor's office and including everyone in between. This response was a mess.

I am grateful, however, that they evacuated the other kids in the school. But they had enough manpower to do more than one thing at a time. I wish they could have figured that part out. It is especially frustrating when it seems after every shooting we are told that there just need to be more folks with guns around to stop the shooter. But that certainly didn't help anything here, except perhaps in those final few minutes.
 
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