TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #2

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Lux et Veritas

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So he left his radios behind and then thought he wasn't in charge? What I want to say about this guy would probably get me banned. It's like he forgot everything about his training to begin with and then just made asinine decision after decision

A veteran cop ditching his TWO radios - huge red flag. That's your life line. Everything PA said, everything he did / didn't do was a red flag. As another poster described it - he was worse than "useless". I quickly got the impression he really did not want to open that door. I believe the technical term is cowardice. JMO
 

Wise Old Owl

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"But experts say there’s no guarantee that officers will follow their training while under fire, and some parents, students and educators warn the increased presence of police in schools doesn’t make them feel safe."


As a retired educator, a mom, and just a regular everyday citizen - I just can't wrap my head around this statement - train of thought - whatever you want to call it.

What, as a society, are we coming to? Let me ask this question - if having a police officer on campus doesn't make you feel safe, then what would make you feel safe? What is left? You have a nutcase storming into your school/classroom with a serious weapon, firing at everything, - WHAT or WHO is going to help you? Make you feel safe? Get you out of there? Take out the "bad guy"?

I am sitting here trying to understand, trying to justify this statement, and I just can't get past it. Yes, there are bad cops, yes we have all seen situations - incidents that push us into that realm of "not trusting police officers" but if you are put into a situation where your life or worse yet, lives of your tender age students are at serious risk - who are you going to wish was there to help? I just can't get past this.............

All the officers, at all the schools I worked at were great people, wonderful police officers that were caring and understanding and knew how to do their job and would step-up immediately if they were needed. I always felt safer because they were there.

I just don't understand..............................


JMHO
 

cujenn81

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"But experts say there’s no guarantee that officers will follow their training while under fire, and some parents, students and educators warn the increased presence of police in schools doesn’t make them feel safe."


As a retired educator, a mom, and just a regular everyday citizen - I just can't wrap my head around this statement - train of thought - whatever you want to call it.

What, as a society, are we coming to? Let me ask this question - if having a police officer on campus doesn't make you feel safe, then what would make you feel safe? What is left? You have a nutcase storming into your school/classroom with a serious weapon, firing at everything, - WHAT or WHO is going to help you? Make you feel safe? Get you out of there? Take out the "bad guy"?

I am sitting here trying to understand, trying to justify this statement, and I just can't get past it. Yes, there are bad cops, yes we have all seen situations - incidents that push us into that realm of "not trusting police officers" but if you are put into a situation where your life or worse yet, lives of your tender age students are at serious risk - who are you going to wish was there to help? I just can't get past this.............

All the officers, at all the schools I worked at were great people, wonderful police officers that were caring and understanding and knew how to do their job and would step-up immediately if they were needed. I always felt safer because they were there.

I just don't understand..............................


JMHO
I don’t understand it either. I was a senior in high school when Columbine happened. We had a full-time LE School Resource Officer employed at our school and metal detectors before Columbine, and they sure made me feel safer for the last two months of school that year.
 

sds71

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Wise Old Owl

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Once the hand was through it was a matter of turning the door handle.

Here's a thought I've had a few times about this. We know the window of the one door was shot out (broken) - so it was open. Why didn't they use a flash bang? Throw one through the window and then reach in and open the door?
Flash bangs don't kill - they just disorient everyone in the room. Yes, there were children hurt - but it wouldn't have hurt them any worse and LE would have been able to gain access, Yes, the shooter might have just started firing at random but there were enough LE out there to have taken him out. Or, at the least, it would have allowed LE to get the door open.

Maybe they didn't have any on hand? IDK - but this has been a thought I've had quite a few times.

JMHO
 

WingsOverTX

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"But experts say there’s no guarantee that officers will follow their training while under fire, and some parents, students and educators warn the increased presence of police in schools doesn’t make them feel safe."


As a retired educator, a mom, and just a regular everyday citizen - I just can't wrap my head around this statement - train of thought - whatever you want to call it.

What, as a society, are we coming to? Let me ask this question - if having a police officer on campus doesn't make you feel safe, then what would make you feel safe? What is left? You have a nutcase storming into your school/classroom with a serious weapon, firing at everything, - WHAT or WHO is going to help you? Make you feel safe? Get you out of there? Take out the "bad guy"?

I am sitting here trying to understand, trying to justify this statement, and I just can't get past it. Yes, there are bad cops, yes we have all seen situations - incidents that push us into that realm of "not trusting police officers" but if you are put into a situation where your life or worse yet, lives of your tender age students are at serious risk - who are you going to wish was there to help? I just can't get past this.............

All the officers, at all the schools I worked at were great people, wonderful police officers that were caring and understanding and knew how to do their job and would step-up immediately if they were needed. I always felt safer because they were there.

I just don't understand..............................


JMHO
Those who feel more unsafe with more police in schools are a reflection of life experiences (and perhaps biases) of SOME teachers and parents.

An example is given in the article: “As a Black woman who has a Black son in the school system, it just puts me on edge,” said Amber Joyce, a former teacher and middle school administrator in the South Plains.

But as you point out, what is the alternative to police/SROs? In some districts, the distrust may be pervasive while in others it may not exist at all. That needs to be addressed district by district. Personally, knowing the character of some teachers, I would not want them carrying, but that's just me!

A big thing missing in Uvalde CISD seems to be the structure and deployment of officers. If an SRO is not always present at every school during school hours then what is the point of having school district police? Quick response time & having a relationship with staff at an assigned school seems necessary. Otherwise, why not just call local LE?

Things went sideways in Uvalde in part because of the impact of border patrol activity near there, which makes more skilled officers available but means if the school police chief does not lead or hand off command, as happened here, there is a void that can cost lives.

AP is responsible for not leading or not handing off. It is clear to me coordination of response had not been thought through in Uvalde or if it was that protocol failed badly in the response.

Ultimately, I think AP will have to take responsibility and move on. He has no credibility in the community. For good reason.

Just my 2 cents

ETA: We have structured American society in a certain way. Forces are at work (whether justified or not) that undermine that structures' norms & precedents. IMO it is fine to discuss doing security in a way that fits each district's population's perspective. But to debate the merits of even having security is to fail completely to protect our children so I hope that is not a debate or decision chosen by any. My opinions only.
 
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HMSHood

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I have not heard if Salvador Ramos was influenced other school shooters. He probably was influenced by other school shooters.
 

tayaway

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[SBM]

ETA: We have structured American society in a certain way. Forces are at work (whether justified or not) that undermine that structures' norms & precedents. IMO it is fine to discuss doing security in a way that fits each district's population's perspective. But to debate the merits of even having security is to fail completely to protect our children so I hope that is not a debate or decision chosen by any. My opinions only. [BBM]

Yes! The system itself is designed to generate mass shootings. In what other country do:

--schools have police units?
--children have to learn shooter drills?
--officials and citizens put the onus of school safety on band aid protocols?
--authorities allow individuals to buy firearms without background checks?
--etc...
 

Seattle1

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From the link -- this sounds about right, 7 total keys to access the entire campus housing approx 600 students.

So why the heck did Chief PA need to go through 30 keys? Seems to me he didn't know how to use the initial [correct] set of keys provided by the janitor. :( :mad::(:(

A janitor first brought six keys, then eventually brought a set of 20-30 keys to the chief, The Texas Tribune reported.

"Each time I tried a key I was just praying," Arredondo told the outlet.


 
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Seattle1

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Specific to the UCISD, I think the 6-person District Police Dept may have undermined the risk to the elementary school (Robb)-- serving limited grades, and most likely focused their resources on the local high schools. And they could not have been more wrong. Sadly, having attended Robb himself as a boy, the school was exceptionally known to Chief PA. Just imagine if a resource officer assigned to Robb was present on May 24, and carried a set of the 7 keys that reportedly will open the entire campus? :eek:

MOO
 

Dotta

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I would think there are plenty of teenagers all over the world with mental health disorders.
Do you mean they can buy military weapons and hundreds of bullets legally? o_O
And I mean civilised countries.
 
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Dotta

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No, I mean the US is not the only country with teenagers with mental health problems.
But I realize this :)
You took 1 sentence out of context from my reply to another poster.

I meant it was possible for a disturbed teen to buy a military style weapon legally and online!
 

MsBetsy

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I know that most people with mental health disorders are not violent. I just find it hard to believe that a mentally healthy person has urges to murder children, let alone see the fear in their eyes and proceed to shoot them to death, after telling them they are all going to die.

Somehow it just doesn't seem what a confident, mentally healthy person would even think about.

I also don't believe people who commit suicide are mentally healthy.
 

MsBetsy

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But I realize this :)
You took 1 sentence out of context from my reply to another poster.

I meant it was possible for a disturbed teen to buy a military style weapon legally and online!
It's also possible for a teenager to buy a gun illegally. I don't know how many school shooters obtained their guns online, but I thought in this case the gun was purchased at a store.

Background checks, including juvenile records, is a good start. But it would only prevent teenagers with a record or diagnosis from buying guns. Many teenagers with mental health issues are not diagnosed and never get help.

If we can't change the gun laws any time soon, at least we can start by trying to recognize the warning signs and getting mental health care for children who need it most.

There are many things that need to be done to prevent tragedies like this.

In so many cases it seems that mass shooters discuss their plans on SM. People need to report these posts, and LE needs to follow up on them!
 

sds71

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Uvalde and Uvalde Police have hired a private law firm in order to try to stop the release of public records related to the recent school mass shooting. The files could be "highly embarrassing" it says


 

Peppery

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Uvalde and Uvalde Police have hired a private law firm in order to try to stop the release of public records related to the recent school mass shooting. The files could be "highly embarrassing" it says


From the link, and this is the root of trying to suppress release of info

“They claim that the compilation of individuals’ criminal history is highly embarrassing information, which is a strange cover. The embarrassing information is the inept police response,” Christopher Schneider, a professor of sociology at Brandon University who studies police body cameras and the disclosure of footage from them, told Motherboard, noting that suspects' criminal histories are released by the police all the time without anyone having requested them.
 
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