TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022

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IceIce9

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I think the day teachers have to be armed with guns in a classroom, and trained (and willing) to shoot to kill, would be a very sad day for America. It’s just unfathomable.
It is a sad day.

At least 15 states allow concealed carry of some sort in schools, according to Everytown for Gun Safety, and additional states have recently considered related legislation.


 

zecats

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I think the day teachers have to be armed with guns in a classroom, and trained (and willing) to shoot to kill, would be a very sad day for America. It’s just unfathomable.
As a teacher, I so agree with you. Listening to an interview with the president of Texas' Teacher Association, Olivida Molina, this past week, she made some good points that folks who suggest this ought to consider.

(My words) Teachers have a lot of responsibility as is and to further require them to pick up a gun and shoot an intruder while also trying to protect a classroom full of little ones (or middle schoolers or teens), is beyond the pale.

Even drills can be difficult- it means huddling sometimes more student than can fit into a corner, comforting them, trying to keep them quiet and calm..and in case of older ones, to take it seriously. Been there/done that for lock-down drills, shelter-in-place drills, bomb scare/evacuation drills, fire drills. Two of any type required per month. Once (for my school) a real fire, once a real shelter-in-place due to a nearby bank robbery.

"Arming educators isn't the answer. That's just putting one more thing on their already full and over-flowing plate. It's also just putting yet another gun in the space. We're not trained for that and we're also human beings who love our students. In many instances, the shooters have been students or former students." (Her words during the TV interview when presented with this often-brought-up suggestion.)
 
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Fika

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I think the day teachers have to be armed with guns in a classroom, and trained (and willing) to shoot to kill, would be a very sad day for America. It’s just unfathomable.
I agree, more guns is not a way to deal with gun violence problem.
Schools should not become like prisons with teachers carrying guns around. This would be indeed a sad day if that came to this..imo
 

Curiousobserver

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The problem isn't that the police "were slow" - the problem is that there was no security to speak of on the campus.

There's no reason that the same security which courthouses have couldn't be implemented in schools (such as guards equipped to handle a potential shooter, metal detectors, etc), and without even having to bother with federal 2nd amendment concerns.
In buffalo there was an armed security guard who shot and hit the perp several times. Only problem is he had on body armor. There is no legitimate civilian use for body armor.

Armed police engaged this suspect before he entered he school and yet he went in anyway. Lot's of good guys with guns and it made no difference what so ever.

Reality bats last my friend.
 

roche.analisa

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An 18 year old kills 14 little schoolchildren.

If I was a parent with elementary or even high-school age children, I'd really seriously consider home schooling them all.

I have homeschooled for 13 years now. While this isn't this reason, it's a huge advantage. Sadly, my four children (young adults) will be vulnerable many places they go. Our church had enhanced security a couple of weeks ago due to threats. There is a quote about having children being a decision to forever have your heart go walking around outside your body.
 

Shamrock1

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steeltowngirl

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Schools are not courthouses! They have security because they have actual criminals there. They are children, why is the first response to change schools into a prison like place? It’s almost like we are blaming the victims. So we then need this type of security in supermarkets, movie theatres, night clubs??
The difference between groceries and theaters vs. schools, is that children are required to attend school (else be home-schooled). The suggestions to heighten security are aimed at protecting a vulnerable population - children.

JMO
 

Shamrock1

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What if the teachers had guns? There were two teachers in the classroom.

That gun would need to be accessed and unlocked by a frantic teacher amid 20+ frantic children while trying to decide if she should order them to run, hide, or fight.

If you are suggesting that one teacher should corral 25 panicked kids and another should lock the door, turn off the lights, pull the shades, and retrieve and ready the gun - all in time to prevent bloodshed - I kindly suggest you volunteer in a classroom.
 

Shamrock1

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The difference between groceries and theaters vs. schools, is that children are required to attend school (else be home-schooled). The suggestions to heighten security are aimed at protecting a vulnerable population - children.

JMO


No. The difference is that involvement in the legal system has the potential to drastically alter someone’s life, or even end it (death sentence). Loss of livelihood, lost home, loss of custody, loss of freedom (prison sentence) - these things happen every single day in every single courthouse. If it was simply a matter of being a “vulnerable population,” there’d be armed guards outside nursing homes, summer camps, and adult day cares.
 

sds71

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Sundog

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x_files

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Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

“A law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigation.”

Had to get a key? Really???

wait WHAT?!
 

bestill

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The killer did the killing.

He was a sick and twisted individual.

I am sure there are many more stories of his demented behavior. Could someone along the way have done something to get him help? Maybe the school he dropped out of? Maybe a co-worker or his former boss? Maybe his parents or grandparents? It's just my opinion this didn't happen overnight. One thing that could come out of this tragedy is parents and those in positions of authority in peoples lives recognize signs early on and try to get help for that individual. I wonder if any calls were ever made on his behalf?

It's also my opinion that someone so determined to do this degree of harm would have found a way to do it. He was on a mission.
 

x_files

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I am sure there are many more stories of his demented behavior. Could someone along the way have done something to get him help? Maybe the school he dropped out of? Maybe a co-worker or his former boss? Maybe his parents or grandparents? It's just my opinion this didn't happen overnight. One thing that could come out of this tragedy is parents and those in positions of authority in peoples lives recognize signs early on and try to get help for that individual. I wonder if any calls were ever made on his behalf?

It's also my opinion that someone so determined to do this degree of harm would have found a way to do it. He was on a mission.

If there were better mental healthcare available in Texas he could have been helped long before he became an angry, violent teen.
But it needs to be caught early on. Yes, mental health can prevent crime. Not all but it's a start.
I would rather see people receive the help they need than languish for years feeling hopeless, helpless, and alienated. Even psychopaths can be diverted from committing violent crimes.
Free and affordable mental healthcare is one step in many in preventing crimes.
 

steeltowngirl

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No. The difference is that involvement in the legal system has the potential to drastically alter someone’s life, or even end it (death sentence). Loss of livelihood, lost home, loss of custody, loss of freedom (prison sentence) - these things happen every single day in every single courthouse. If it was simply a matter of being a “vulnerable population,” there’d be armed guards outside nursing homes, summer camps, and adult day cares.
We will agree to disagree. I value the life of a child / student as much -or more - than a member of the legal system.

JMO
 

Sundog

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If there were better mental healthcare available in Texas he could have been helped long before he became an angry, violent teen.
But it needs to be caught early on. Yes, mental health can prevent crime. Not all but it's a start.
I would rather see people receive the help they need than languish for years feeling hopeless, helpless, and alienated. Even psychopaths can be diverted from committing violent crimes.
Free and affordable mental healthcare is one step in many in preventing crimes.

The congressional representative for the district that includes the city of Uvaldes was working with the Uvaldes community leaders to secure funding to build a mental health facility there. They already had congressional earmarks and were applying for grants and other funding to build the facility that would have included beds and services for juveniles as well as adults. It was recognized by the city's judges, mayor and congressman that the rural communities in the district lacked and needed mental health resources.

“I am most proud of the mental health clinic in Uvalde. We have a long way to go, but the lack of mental health facilities in rural communities is through the roof, they don’t exist. I mean, you have a handful of beds in Kerrville or San Antonio for basically all of South and West Texas. Something like this, it fills a need.


 

doublestop

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The problem isn't that the police "were slow" - the problem is that there was no security to speak of on the campus.

There's no reason that the same security which courthouses have couldn't be implemented in schools (such as guards equipped to handle a potential shooter, metal detectors, etc), and without even having to bother with federal 2nd amendment concerns.
First, legislators would have to care enough to fund them. And apparently they don't.
 
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