UK - Alesha MacPhail, 6, raped & murdered, Ardbeg, Isle of Bute, Scotland, 2 Jul 2018 -*arrest* #6

[Ched]

Is legal aid automatic is under 18 years ?

 

[Eve71]

Solicitors / QC work on a hourly rate. Correspondence is added also. Judging by the rather modest fee , they didn’t work very hard. By choice or consequence, we’ll not know .

 

[Eve71]

Is legal aid automatic is under 18 years ?

Unless they’re loaded in their own right...yes

 

[Edinlass]

£14,000 legal fees is alot in my book, 1p spent on this would be too much

 

[Fidobell]

I don't think he will get it easy anywhere but he will be housed with in Shotts with other long term prisoners who are also sex offenders.
I'm also sure the Lockerbie bomber was housed in Barlinnie from 2001 - 2005 then moved to Greenock, from where he was compassionately released in 2009.

I stand corrected on Lockerbie bomber apologies! .
Quick Google says 200/500 prisioners in SP are murderers . High % .
Unrelated but didn't know Jodi Jones killer housed in Shotts .

 

[Yenriac]

I stand corrected on Lockerbie bomber apologies! .
Quick Google says 200/500 prisioners in SP are murderers . High % .
Unrelated but didn't know Jodi Jones killer housed in Shotts .

No need for apologies.
Yes percentage is high however these prisoners are all over the age of 21, some even older in their 40's, 50's and 60's. Some are armed robbers, some are fraudsters. Just because they're murderers it doesn't mean they are dead set on committing further crimes inside. The majority of them have accepted their crimes and sentences.
The visits in Shotts are quite relaxed, the atmosphere is ok, there's a children's play area in the visit room.
When I've visited in polmont, I've felt the atmosphere tense, it feels like it could erupt at any time and the visiting routine is much more strict. These are all, young and very volatile boys who at a young age are desperate to seek a name for themselves and the recognition of harming the convicted person of a high profile case.
Yes most LTPs are housed in Shotts, if the sentence is over 5 years there's every chance this is where they will go so I'm not suprised jodie jones' murderer is there.

 

[Edinlass]

No need for apologies.
Yes percentage is high however these prisoners are all over the age of 21, some even older in their 40's, 50's and 60's. Some are armed robbers, some are fraudsters. Just because they're murderers it doesn't mean they are dead set on committing further crimes inside. The majority of them have accepted their crimes and sentences.
The visits in Shotts are quite relaxed, the atmosphere is ok, there's a children's play area in the visit room.
When I've visited in polmont, I've felt the atmosphere tense, it feels like it could erupt at any time and the visiting routine is much more strict. These are all, young and very volatile boys who at a young age are desperate to seek a name for themselves and the recognition of harming the convicted person of a high profile case.
Yes most LTPs are housed in Shotts, if the sentence is over 5 years there's every chance this is where they will go so I'm not suprised jodie jones' murderer is there.

Yes he will be surrounded by the same kinds of people in Shotts so I think he will have more room to roam, IMO. Not so much in Polmont, where child peadophiles and murderers are deemed ‘wrong un’s’.

 

[Yenriac]

Yes he will be surrounded by the same kinds of people in Shotts so I think he will have more room to roam, IMO. Not so much in Polmont, where child peadophiles and murderers are deemed ‘wrong un’s’.

Exactly. He'll be held with fellow paedophiles and child murderers. Still segregated from the other prison population though.
I imagine there aren't many prisoners in Polmont that are convicted of similar crimes to AC, those young boys in there will be desperate to scar or kill a 'beast' such as AC.

 

[Edinlass]

Exactly. He'll be held with fellow paedophiles and child murderers. Still segregated from the other prison population though.
I imagine there aren't many prisoners in Polmont that are convicted of similar crimes to AC, those young boys in there will be desperate to scar or kill a 'beast' such as AC.

100%. Polmont population is full of petty crime like individuals, not many rapists and murderers of children that I can think of. He will be target no1 in there.

 

[bronzepurple]

No need for apologies.
Yes percentage is high however these prisoners are all over the age of 21, some even older in their 40's, 50's and 60's. Some are armed robbers, some are fraudsters. Just because they're murderers it doesn't mean they are dead set on committing further crimes inside. The majority of them have accepted their crimes and sentences.
The visits in Shotts are quite relaxed, the atmosphere is ok, there's a children's play area in the visit room.
When I've visited in polmont, I've felt the atmosphere tense, it feels like it could erupt at any time and the visiting routine is much more strict. These are all, young and very volatile boys who at a young age are desperate to seek a name for themselves and the recognition of harming the convicted person of a high profile case.
Yes most LTPs are housed in Shotts, if the sentence is over 5 years there's every chance this is where they will go so I'm not suprised jodie jones' murderer is there.

In what way is the visiting routine more strict at Polmont? Just curious, I've never been to any visiting centre re prison or young offenders. I wonder if he would be in the same room as other inmates for the visiting time or if that would be seen to put him at too much risk?

 

[Yenriac]

In what way is the visiting routine more strict at Polmont? Just curious, I've never been to any visiting centre re prison or young offenders. I wonder if he would be in the same room as other inmates for the visiting time or if that would be seen to put him at too much risk?

Well I've never visited a sex offender so that i can't answer. I think generally sex offenders have separate visiting times from the general prison population because there is a risk of them beibg harmed.
Visit routine is more strict in that you are watched far more closely, searched more thoroughly on your way in and everyone is searched.
When I've visited Shotts, it's more relaxed, sometimes you're searched, sometimes not, and you're not watched as closely although you're still watched just not so obviously.
I've never been to a visit where there's been a known sex offender being visited at the same time.

 

[bronzepurple]

Well I've never visited a sex offender so that i can't answer. I think generally sex offenders have separate visiting times from the general prison population because there is a risk of them beibg harmed.
Visit routine is more strict in that you are watched far more closely, searched more thoroughly on your way in and everyone is searched.
When I've visited Shotts, it's more relaxed, sometimes you're searched, sometimes not, and you're not watched as closely although you're still watched just not so obviously.
I've never been to a visit where there's been a known sex offender being visited at the same time.

Hmm interesting, thanks for sharing. Yeah I wondered if someone might try to take the opportunity to harm him during a visit if that's as close as they can get to him. Saying that visit times are precious and they probably wouldn't want to ruin their own time with their family/friend who was visiting them.

 

[TaylorCallum]

I do think the prison culture of inmates trying to make a name for themselves or seeking validation by assaulting other inmates who have done worse crimes creates a very negative atmosphere. I totally understand people's anger towards someone like Aaron - and their want for revenge - but I think the idea of someone attacking another prisoner and then getting a pat on the back or hailed as a hero for it is not helpful. They're supposed to be in there to get rehabilitated and to serve time for a crime they themselves have done. Being violent won't help them with that.

Going by emotions I very much understand where people are coming from and I know that people will say he deserves anything that comes to him, I'm not disputing that. But from a logical perspective, he should not be harmed in prison, it won't help the attacker in the long term and it will reflect badly on the prison service for them failing to adequately protect an inmate who is at high risk.

 

[Yenriac]

Hmm interesting, thanks for sharing. Yeah I wondered if someone might try to take the opportunity to harm him during a visit if that's as close as they can get to him. Saying that visit times are precious and they probably wouldn't want to ruin their own time with their family/friend who was visiting them.

I do think the prison culture of inmates trying to make a name for themselves or seeking validation by assaulting other inmates who have done worse crimes creates a very negative atmosphere. I totally understand people's anger towards someone like Aaron - and their want for revenge - but I think the idea of someone attacking another prisoner and then getting a pat on the back or hailed as a hero for it is not helpful. They're supposed to be in there to get rehabilitated and to serve time for a crime they themselves have done. Being violent won't help them with that.

Going by emotions I very much understand where people are coming from and I know that people will say he deserves anything that comes to him, I'm not disputing that. But from a logical perspective, he should not be harmed in prison, it won't help the attacker in the long term and it will reflect badly on the prison service for them failing to adequately protect an inmate who is at high risk.

The thing with prison culture, especially YOIs is that many of these young prisoners come out and reoffend, they become bigger criminals inside. An 16 year old boy in a YOI who is convicted of an assault will quite happily attack a child rapist an murderer for the status, at the time he might think he won't get caught and maybe he wont, he definitely won't think of the consequences.

 

[TaylorCallum]

The thing with prison culture, especially YOIs is that many of these young prisoners come out and reoffend, they become bigger criminals inside. An 16 year old boy in a YOI who is convicted of an assault will quite happily attack a child rapist an murderer for the status, at the time he might think he won't get caught and maybe he wont, he definitely won't think of the consequences.

I feel like people like that though (and perhaps I'm being too quick to judge) but those who don't have any regard for the law and who are prone to violence, especially inside the prison, are likely to come out and possibly even become murderers themselves. Like you said there's a high rate of reoffending which is an issue and shows that the rehabilitation aspect isn't working in a lot of cases. I wonder what can be done to address the problem.

 

[Yenriac]

I feel like people like that though (and perhaps I'm being too quick to judge) but those who don't have any regard for the law and who are prone to violence, especially inside the prison, are likely to come out and possibly even become murderers themselves. Like you said there's a high rate of reoffending which is an issue and shows that the rehabilitation aspect isn't working in a lot of cases. I wonder what can be done to address the problem.

It's an interesting question. My young cousin was convicted of attempted murder at 16, he was sent to Polmont. He was successfully rehabilitated with the help of The Prince's Trust and the support of his family. He came straight out of prison into a job, he's been promoted twice in the last 3 years and never looked back. He is a rare success story but he had amazing support from his family. Everyone has a different set of circumstances. Not everyone has a good family support network or willing to accept help to make the necessary changes.

 

[bronzepurple]

It's an interesting question. My young cousin was convicted of attempted murder at 16, he was sent to Polmont. He was successfully rehabilitated with the help of The Prince's Trust and the support of his family. He came straight out of prison into a job, he's been promoted twice in the last 3 years and never looked back. He is a rare success story but he had amazing support from his family. Everyone has a different set of circumstances. Not everyone has a good family support network or willing to accept help to make the necessary changes.

Wow, that's very encouraging to hear. I'm glad the rehabilitation went so well.

 

[Yenriac]

Wow, that's very encouraging to hear. I'm glad the rehabilitation went so well.

Thank you, we are all very proud of him and what he has acheived.
It was a fight when he was 16 where the other young boy ended up fighting for his life. He plead guilty immediately never denied anything but it's a prime example of how young teenagers don't think of the consequences of their actions until it's too late.

 

[TaylorCallum]

It's an interesting question. My young cousin was convicted of attempted murder at 16, he was sent to Polmont. He was successfully rehabilitated with the help of The Prince's Trust and the support of his family. He came straight out of prison into a job, he's been promoted twice in the last 3 years and never looked back. He is a rare success story but he had amazing support from his family. Everyone has a different set of circumstances. Not everyone has a good family support network or willing to accept help to make the necessary changes.

I'm very glad for your cousin and it's really good your family were there to offer support and help him when he came out. It's always encouraging to hear success stories and to know that people do work hard to improve themselves and overcome things. I think you're right though about the circumstances. I know someone who's in just now (for stabbing) and I'm unsure what will happen when they get out. I think being realistic it seems that a lot of the times it seems to go the opposite way than what you would want and I wish something could be done to address that. It's difficult though.

 

[Yenriac]

I'm very glad for your cousin and it's really good your family were there to offer support and help him when he came out. It's always encouraging to hear success stories and to know that people do work hard to improve themselves and overcome things. I think you're right though about the circumstances. I know someone who's in just now (for stabbing) and I'm unsure what will happen when they get out. I think being realistic it seems that a lot of the times it seems to go the opposite way than what you would want and I wish something could be done to address that. It's difficult though.

Very difficult. I think it does go the opposite way in alot of situations. I think people can be written off too quickly which is a shame. The thing with my cousin was he accepted responsibility immediately for his crime, he knew he had gone too far and that's what stood him in good stead.