UK UK - Alistair Wilson, 30, murdered at home, Nairn, Scotland, 28 Nov 2004

[Kiri]

Very bizarre considering he was shown an E-Fit artist sketch of the gunman and he confirmed that it was identical to the man he seen on the bus. So as NATE rightly pointed out, where did that E-FIT that was shown to Tommy Hogg come from? It must have been from Veronica as she was the only person that saw him
Its very bizarre.

Brings us back to 1 witness then....VW.
I really don't know what to think!
Regarding ANYONE else's involvement....there would have been incriminating GSR/blood etc on them, so that rules out anyone at/near the scene that eve. (Assuming they were forensically tested that is!).
So it's got to be a person not involved at the scene that eve (sorry writing out loud!) not Burnett etc.
Was that stranger known to AW, who was he, why was he?!?

 

[Kiri]

Your welcome. I really like Nate you can tell he's spent years studying this case and put alot of passion into it. He also backs up alot of his theories up with Police statements from very early on in the case which seem to not be spoken about now, and there's definitely alot of contradiction with them aswell.
It's a fantastic read. I hope you enjoy it, let us know what you think of the book.


Thanks



I think at the time of Nate's hypothesis the Police hadn't released that information to the public that the man on the bus had been ruled out of there enquiry. It wasn't until 2017 I believe that the Police confirmed this.
I think after such a brutal murder the Police clearly were trying to safeguard VW and her son's, so maybe they felt at the time they wanted to hold back some of the true events Incase it put her in danger. As the years have gone by they probably feel more comfortable with allowing more information to come out, and I also think there is an emotional element to Andrew's appeal, he clearly just wants an answer or some form of justice for his Dad, I admire his bravery.
I still do think there is alot of information being held back. I also believe Andrew will no more about what happened, especially with what the exact conversation that took place between his Mum and Dad, but ofcourse that won't ever be made public.
In my opinion I don't think it had anything to do with the decking planning objection

That all makes good sense!
Maybe Andrew will get it solved, he's got the knowledge and passion to!!!!

 

[Kiri]

Very bizarre considering he was shown an E-Fit artist sketch of the gunman and he confirmed that it was identical to the man he seen on the bus. So as NATE rightly pointed out, where did that E-FIT that was shown to Tommy Hogg come from? It must have been from Veronica as she was the only person that saw him
Its very bizarre.

Didn't Police say...VW's description wasn't detailed enough for an E.Fit? Christ....some of the old E.fits were horrendous quality etc back in the day! Even recently we've had that rather strange one produced that went viral as it was so odd!! Sorry, if you didn't see it on social media, but it was rather unflattering one (not related to this case!) Of a funny looking, rather overweight Asian guy, BUT it was still produced and may have been useful, if anything, it was well circulated!!!

 

[Mickymack10]

Brings us back to 1 witness then....VW.
I really don't know what to think!
Regarding ANYONE else's involvement....there would have been incriminating GSR/blood etc on them, so that rules out anyone at/near the scene that eve. (Assuming they were forensically tested that is!).
So it's got to be a person not involved at the scene that eve (sorry writing out loud!) not Burnett etc.
Was that stranger known to AW, who was he, why was he?!?

So many possibilities and scenarios could have played out that night, it's impossible for any of us to know exactly what happened. My opinion is that it was carried out by a henchmen acting on behalf of someone who sent him there. I don't think the gunman wasn't known to AW, but I do think he had an inkling of what the gunman was there for.
I believe someone felt AW betrayed him by leaving his position at the bank, and felt that AW had unfinished business to do before he left, Ie, finalise one last business deal if we go along with the theory AW was doing of the books work for some criminal underworld gang.
I think there was either a final offer of a cheque inside the envelope to try and bribe him to stay, or as NATE suggested security detail's, or instructions to pay back any outstanding amount left of money he had borrowed. It could have been both.

 

[Konstantin]

Thoughts so far on Nate's thesis:
Very well reasoned/written so far (half way through - stopped to write notes here!). But...I thought the man on the bus was ruled out?
If the family don't want ramifications due to identifying/antagonising the perps./associates why has his son appealed so much for the truth?
I agree entirely that some weird censoring of info./intel is going on in this case.
Are they using this case as collateral towards a far bigger case?
HBOS was a disgrace yes and the timing, close to the 2008 global banking crises is interesting.
Interesting timing/coincidence that he was also leaving banking/this occured?
I have never seen a blue A4 envelope though??? Air mail yes, but not A4 size blue? Unless like a big hallmark/birthday card?
Regarding the other child in the house, was this relevant? Or just a coincidence? I'll read on....

I agree that is is well reasoned.

For me the most interesting take away is the fact that the media early on reported facts of the case that were then silenced, but I don't think that is anything more significant than the police wanting to have privileged information that only the perpetrator and they (as well as VW) would know.

They have been very keen to not let VW talk unrestricted to the media and have controled what she says but that is very understandable in a live murder enquiry where she is the only witness of the perpetrator.

The fact that they did not release an efit is interesting but we can only really speculate why. My speculation is that is is partly to protect VW as it is very obvious that she is the only person to have seen him ergo the efit would come from here and since we don't know the motive this could put her in danger.

People seek big explanations for big events and this was a big event-- a fatal shooting in a town not known for such crime. But AW's past has been forensically gone into and nothing has come to light, and the only argument of note he had was one right at the time of his murder, over the decking. Which seems to go much deeper than it appears on the surface when you look at circumstances around it. It is a less exciting and "big" explanation than "AW was linked to gangsters" or "AW was linked to paramilitaries" so it is hard to believe. Yet AW was murdered.

 

[Mickymack10]

I think somebody stood at a loss with AW leaving his job, remember the following week was his last week as HBO'S Manager. The timing of him leaving and along with the shooting is what really stands out for me. I don't necessarily think that he was directly involved with gangster's, it could have been with someone with alot of money and power who maybe didn't a squeaky clean record on paper when dealing directly through the banks itself, so he opted to pay a high amount of cash in exchange for of the books to someone to help him launder money through what would seem legitimate business account's.
You don't need to be involved with gangster's to be able to hire a hitman, if you have alot of money and power pull then it can buy you alot of things.
The Havelock hotels decking was never ripped up or destroyed, it still remains there to this day, a small fine was probably imposed on them.

 

[cortina]

Well I don't know any names etc, but keep us informed (within the rules etc!).

I will....I was really fishing to see if anyone else had heard where this supposed person worked or if I had imagined it...I know aw had connections to this employer...a man.. and spent time at the premises...its a short step in some peoples minds to this and him having an affair with a woman there.

I know im doubling back on myself but im trying to be fair to all arguments....its possible that aw simply hadn't mentioned he'd told the gunman he'd go back outside...so aw gets the envelope and tells. gunman he. doesn't understand what's going on but takes it and says he might come back out to him...aw discusses the envelope with his wife. for longer than he'd intended, then says hell see if he's still there...the. gunman may have put a time limit in his own mind about how long he'd. wait and still have been within it, but you wouldn't have thought he'd have wanted to wait for a long time. in such an exposed position.

apart from the fact that its a strange crime, I think David t is right when he says the official version has been doctored...I just dont. know exactly how

 

[cortina]

I think somebody stood at a loss with AW leaving his job, remember the following week was his last week as HBO'S Manager. The timing of him leaving and along with the shooting is what really stands out for me. I don't necessarily think that he was directly involved with gangster's, it could have been with someone with alot of money and power who maybe didn't a squeaky clean record on paper when dealing directly through the banks itself, so he opted to pay a high amount of cash in exchange for of the books to someone to help him launder money through what would seem legitimate business account's.
You don't need to be involved with gangster's to be able to hire a hitman, if you have alot of money and power pull then it can buy you alot of things.
The Havelock hotels decking was never ripped up or destroyed, it still remains there to this day, a small fine was probably imposed on them.

I must admit, I dont like. the. decking theory, although it. is possible and. what makes it more. likely is that the gunman obviously wasn't the best, whether were. talking about negotiation or. violence...he seems like a convenient fool who said he'd do it.
id like to see an outside force come in because in a surprising number of these cases in small towns there are. certain relationships between police and big fish...im not saying that was the case here, but, unless. they're keeping a lot. from us, their conclusions seem to be based on lack of evidence, and this would at least clear up any doubts about the police

 

[Mickymack10]

I must admit, I dont like. the. decking theory, although it. is possible and. what makes it more. likely is that the gunman obviously wasn't the best, whether were. talking about negotiation or. violence...he seems like a convenient fool who said he'd do it.
id like to see an outside force come in because in a surprising number of these cases in small towns there are. certain relationships between police and big fish...im not saying that was the case here, but, unless. they're keeping a lot. from us, their conclusions seem to be based on lack of evidence, and this would at least clear up any d

 

[Mickymack10]

Hi guys I stumbled across this on Reddit, it's the opinion of planning officer who works in Scotland. It's worth a read. He's saying the worst outcome would have been £300 fine.

 

[Mickymack10]

I agree that is is well reasoned.

For me the most interesting take away is the fact that the media early on reported facts of the case that were then silenced, but I don't think that is anything more significant than the police wanting to have privileged information that only the perpetrator and they (as well as VW) would know.

They have been very keen to not let VW talk unrestricted to the media and have controled what she says but that is very understandable in a live murder enquiry where she is the only witness of the perpetrator.

The fact that they did not release an efit is interesting but we can only really speculate why. My speculation is that is is partly to protect VW as it is very obvious that she is the only person to have seen him ergo the efit would come from here and since we don't know the motive this could put her in danger.

People seek big explanations for big events and this was a big event-- a fatal shooting in a town not known for such crime. But AW's past has been forensically gone into and nothing has come to light, and the only argument of note he had was one right at the time of his murder, over the decking. Which seems to go much deeper than it appears on the surface when you look at circumstances around it. It is a less exciting and "big" explanation than "AW was linked to gangsters" or "AW was linked to paramilitaries" so it is hard to believe. Yet AW was murdered.

His business deals at the bank weren't looked into by a forensic accountant, so it's safe to say the Police definitely underestimated HBOS and overlooked his work place as a potential reason for him being killed. The decking objection was already known to the Police at the very beginning of there enquiry. No new information has came forward, there covering very old ground. The only difference is there is a new superintendent who has taken on this case with a new set of eyes, and he's trying to make it look like the Police are still being proactive with this case.

 

[Mickymack10]

I realise this is probably another rabbit hole, but ill type it down anyway.
I think its obvious that. the gunman wasn't the. most professional or. the brightest.
he expected aw to realise who Paul was immediately, but he had no idea.
I dont think that the gunman was a real insider..I dont think he knew who was who.
presumably someone told him what to do...they didn't write it down.
if he wasn't Scottish he may. have interpreted something like Powell as Paul...Scots wouldn't emphasise the 2 syllables in Powell as English people would.
just a thought...going now

I can't understand why you'd claim the gunman wasn't the brightest? And that be didn't know who was who was? It was PAUL that was on the envelope I don't think he misinterpreted it for Powell.
The gunman used an untraceable weapon and left no DNA evidence behind at the crime scene. He was able to disappear into the night without being seen by any witness's. He also dumped the gun down a drain and left no DNA, or finger prints on the gun, which to me indicates his advanced knowledge of forensic science.
He was able to evade the Police even after they closed Nairn off for traffic coming in and out the town shortly after AW was shot. I can't understand why some people are of the view that the gunman wasn't professional and was incompetent, when there is zero evidence to support those opinions up.
He's never been caught

 

[cortina]

Your welcome. I really like Nate you can tell he's spent years studying this case and put alot of passion into it. He also backs up alot of his theories up with Police statements from very early on in the case which seem to not be spoken about now, and there's definitely alot of contradiction with them aswell.
It's a fantastic read. I hope you enjoy it, let us know what you think of the book.


Thanks



I think at the time of Nate's hypothesis the Police hadn't released that information to the public that the man on the bus had been ruled out of there enquiry. It wasn't until 2017 I believe that the Police confirmed this.
I think after such a brutal murder the Police clearly were trying to safeguard VW and her son's, so maybe they felt at the time they wanted to hold back some of the true events Incase it put her in danger. As the years have gone by they probably feel more comfortable with allowing more information to come out, and I also think there is an emotional element to Andrew's appeal, he clearly just wants an answer or some form of justice for his Dad, I admire his bravery.
I still do think there is alot of information being held back. I also believe Andrew will no more about what happened, especially with what the exact conversation that took place between his Mum and Dad, but ofcourse that won't ever be made public.
In my opinion I don't think it had anything to do with the decking planning objection

Very bizarre considering he was shown an E-Fit artist sketch of the gunman and he confirmed that it was identical to the man he seen on the bus. So as NATE rightly pointed out, where did that E-FIT that was shown to Tommy Hogg come from? It must have been from Veronica for as she was the only person that saw him
Its very bizarre.

I can't understand why you'd claim the gunman wasn't the brightest? And that be didn't know who was who was? It was PAUL that was on the envelope I don't think he misinterpreted it for Powell.
The gunman used an untraceable weapon and left no DNA evidence behind at the crime scene. He was able to disappear into the night without being seen by any witness's. He also dumped the gun down a drain and left no DNA, or finger prints on the gun, which to me indicates his advanced knowledge of forensic science.
He was able to evade the Police even after they closed Nairn off for traffic coming in and out the town shortly after AW was shot. I can't understand why some people are of the view that the gunman wasn't professional and was incompetent, when there is zero evidence to support those opinions up.
He's never been caught

the reason I dont think the gunman was the best is that I dont believe he meant to kill aw and I dont believe he chose a good time or location to make his approach...obviously we dont know for sure if the men on the beach were connected to the murder, but, if they were, it was pretty daft to shoot off the gun so close to. Nairn...I think.hed have been under pretty close instruction about. some. aspects...im not saying he. was. totally useless, just not of the calibre id have. expected...I think he was spirited a. good way away pretty pronto.
I honestly made my Paul name post before looking anything up...then I did and was surprised, although the main entry I found has since been removed or I can't find it...try it...im not necessarily saying Powell by the way but. I think you'll pick it up. I do broadly agree with you though...if the police didn't think it was something to do with aw and aw alone, why did they allow his wife and children to stay in the house

 

[cortina]

my Paul name thing could, of. course, be pure. coincidence...it probably is...but it connects to the place of work of was supposed girlfriend...just think its worth bearing in mind...maybe this is the business that was left in the lurch or. whatever

 

[Kiri]

I will....I was really fishing to see if anyone else had heard where this supposed person worked or if I had imagined it...I know aw had connections to this employer...a man.. and spent time at the premises...its a short step in some peoples minds to this and him having an affair with a woman there.

I know im doubling back on myself but im trying to be fair to all arguments....its possible that aw simply hadn't mentioned he'd told the gunman he'd go back outside...so aw gets the envelope and tells. gunman he. doesn't understand what's going on but takes it and says he might come back out to him...aw discusses the envelope with his wife. for longer than he'd intended, then says hell see if he's still there...the. gunman may have put a time limit in his own mind about how long he'd. wait and still have been within it, but you wouldn't have thought he'd have wanted to wait for a long time. in such an exposed position.

apart from the fact that its a strange crime, I think David t is right when he says the official version has been doctored...I just dont. know exactly how

It is very odd, that AW went in with envelope! Surely the shooter, would just use that as an invitation to shoot/aim at the back of his head (easy target). Sorry to be graphic here. Did AW think it so odd, he just said 'yeah OK thanks, bye', then went in quick, because:
A. He thought the guy at his door sun. eve all a bit odd!
B. Took it quick to get inside/away from the situation (as possibly he did know more than he let on to V?).
If he went in so quickly, did the shooter literally miss his opportunity? Or was he waiting for it to be returned, full of whatever etc!??
I'm going over old ground again!

 

[Kiri]

I think somebody stood at a loss with AW leaving his job, remember the following week was his last week as HBO'S Manager. The timing of him leaving and along with the shooting is what really stands out for me. I don't necessarily think that he was directly involved with gangster's, it could have been with someone with alot of money and power who maybe didn't a squeaky clean record on paper when dealing directly through the banks itself, so he opted to pay a high amount of cash in exchange for of the books to someone to help him launder money through what would seem legitimate business account's.
You don't need to be involved with gangster's to be able to hire a hitman, if you have alot of money and power pull then it can buy you alot of things.
The Havelock hotels decking was never ripped up or destroyed, it still remains there to this day, a small fine was probably imposed on them.

That's what Prof. David Wildon thought relevant....his work at the Bank!!! Mind he does change his mind (which is fine!!!). I recall Prof. Wilson first thought proper hit man, but he talks (in the partial Unsolved footage I have seen - because guess what, the full edition is unavailable to watch surprise surprise!).. he now favours personal/grudge as it was such a personal crime, on his doorstep, of his home!

 

[Kiri]

I can't understand why you'd claim the gunman wasn't the brightest? And that be didn't know who was who was? It was PAUL that was on the envelope I don't think he misinterpreted it for Powell.
The gunman used an untraceable weapon and left no DNA evidence behind at the crime scene. He was able to disappear into the night without being seen by any witness's. He also dumped the gun down a drain and left no DNA, or finger prints on the gun, which to me indicates his advanced knowledge of forensic science.
He was able to evade the Police even after they closed Nairn off for traffic coming in and out the town shortly after AW was shot. I can't understand why some people are of the view that the gunman wasn't professional and was incompetent, when there is zero evidence to support those opinions up.
He's never been caught

This is some of the info. I've tried to find!!!
I.e ballistics!!! It's never been confirmed if casings were found at scene by police! (Bullets, yes obviously, but we haven't heard much about them? - I think I recall they were manufactured in the 80's?). Burnett (pub landlord/decking etc) actually told Bleksley (it's in his book) that the police found a casing under foliage a few days after the shooting!! Again, police have not denied/confirmed this! Much to Bleksley's annoyance! Regarding the gun....it was in a storm drain for 10 days (I think), so I think (my opinion!), is any evidence (that may have been there - prints, blood etc) was destroyed by being in a wet, muddy drain! So do we know he was savy?? Or just lucky! They found a number of those guns (unregistered) left over from 2nd WW in Scotland. Either way, he is still ar large though I agree!

 

[Kiri]

the reason I dont think the gunman was the best is that I dont believe he meant to kill aw and I dont believe he chose a good time or location to make his approach...obviously we dont know for sure if the men on the beach were connected to the murder, but, if they were, it was pretty daft to shoot off the gun so close to. Nairn...I think.hed have been under pretty close instruction about. some. aspects...im not saying he. was. totally useless, just not of the calibre id have. expected...I think he was spirited a. good way away pretty pronto.
I honestly made my Paul name post before looking anything up...then I did and was surprised, although the main entry I found has since been removed or I can't find it...try it...im not necessarily saying Powell by the way but. I think you'll pick it up. I do broadly agree with you though...if the police didn't think it was something to do with aw and aw alone, why did they allow his wife and children to stay in the house

I've always wondered about the family staying there, it happens quite a lot though e.g Anne Heron's husband was quite happy to stay where his wife was brutally stabbed etc. I think it may have been financial reasons (nice house, nice location, paid off etc) that she stayed? I'm sure it was on the sounds podcast, she mentions it was her home, her boys home etc, but I'm not sure I would stay there after that!!!

 

[Kiri]

His business deals at the bank weren't looked into by a forensic accountant, so it's safe to say the Police definitely underestimated HBOS and overlooked his work place as a potential reason for him being killed. The decking objection was already known to the Police at the very beginning of there enquiry. No new information has came forward, there covering very old ground. The only difference is there is a new superintendent who has taken on this case with a new set of eyes, and he's trying to make it look like the Police are still being proactive with this case.

Bleksley agrees and writes a lot about the lack of financial fraud understanding by the investigators in the original investigations, he has a witness who discusses it and the fact that they didn't even speak to an employee who worked very closely with AW at the time! There are also a number of further possible financial motives that could have led to motive!!! However, as much as Blekesley has experience and media clout, he suffers with a lack of information from the police in many of his personal crusades, yes, he has his sources and he has spent a lot of time (like Nate), but who/what I really want to hear from is from the police!!!! Media/community interest is great, to raise profile, keep case in public mind, but an official update is best! But we just had one, and it's back to the decking again!!!! Is it a case of the most likeliest reason/occam's razor etc. Was it really all over decking????

 

[Kiri]

Hi guys I stumbled across this on Reddit, it's the opinion of planning officer who works in Scotland. It's worth a read. He's saying the worst outcome would have been £300 fine.

But....the smoking ban was coming in I think, so they really wanted a covered area to bring in business, serve more food etc etc. Were they planning to extend the pub on the decking footprint eventually? Was there more to it? Was there more going on? Was AW mad that the Havelock was doing well, yet the B&B business he had tried to set up in his house hadn't? I'm going round in circles now, I'm going to have a rest till tomorow eve!!!! My Michael Ross theory was far simpler!