UK UK - Alistair Wilson, 30, Nairn, Scotland, 28 November 2004

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by shadowdancer, Jun 7, 2014.

  1. Markybug

    Markybug Active Member

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    Do you surmise it was a local ? And the police probably have a idea what the reason is ?
     
  2. jambers

    jambers Member

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    Looking at where the murder weapon was found is interesting. The killer is known to have departed to the left, down Crescent Road, on foot toward Marine Road. There were then two options.

    Turn RIGHT onto Marine Road, and after about 150 yards is the A96. Right again, and it's about 500 yards give or take to where the gun was found. If the killer turned right, he'd need to pass the end of Crescent Road again carrying the weapon (Google Earth/Maps shows the layout).

    Turn LEFT onto Marine Road, and basically it would take longer to reach the same point. (Unless the person knew of or took any shortcuts through people's land or gardens/drives).

    Was the killer on foot or in a car?

    Look at the map/aerial view. If the killer had a car then where would it be located (several nearby options); if they did and took the quickest route to the main road, they'd be heading south east - but the drain is on the wrong side of the road and off the main road too. If the travelled "around the town" they could have arrived there heading down Seabank Rd; if they were driving they'd have to stop, get out the car and walk to the drain. If they were being given a lift they'd still need to stop and presumably open the door. They could then have been away (in either direction) very quickly.

    We don't know how the killer got to this point: if they were on foot, and took the shortest route (subject to the point about passing by Crescent Rd entrance again) then the location would seem understandable (close, but not close enough to be found if the Police were looking in drains within a couple of hundred yards).

    Again back to the map. If the killer took the route to the LEFT on Marine Road, they had various options - but, to avoid single track roads, and take the quickest exit to the main road (barring anything nearer) Seabank road looks a natural route to take.

    In short, if the killer was on foot, (unless they did not mind a much longer walk) then they walked back up the A96; the location of the gun would be impractical if they were in a car heading toward Inverness. If they had (or were in a car) then the drop off point represents the last chance to ditch the weapon before heading out of town. Does the map give any ideas why the weapon would be placed there rather than any other drain on possible routes to that point?

    Hard to say then if the killer was local but the gun proves where they went immediately following the murder. I think on balance for the reasons above they turned LEFT onto Marine Road and picked up a vehicle at some point between there and where the weapon was found. Did they have a driver though, or did they indeed walk? Did they simply happen on that drain (not using any others) or did they plan to drop the weapon there? Does it indicate a level of planning (indicating less probability they had the wrong AW?)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  3. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Just stumbled onto this thread looking for the significance of sending someone blue flowers and this link popped up with a mystery involving a blue envelope!
    Have not yet read the whole thread, so surely this fabulous link has already been posted, but posting it again for easy reference.
    The Doorstep Murder - BBC News
     
  4. Keine Engel

    Keine Engel Well-Known Member

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    Thank you
    I really like the way it's set-up :) Nice!
     
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  5. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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  6. Keine Engel

    Keine Engel Well-Known Member

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    I'm getting "this tweet is not available" message^ so I'm not sure if you ARE asking or if I'm missing something from tweet :D
    Here goes anyways...
    It does look more like black to me, not really sure thou?
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Sorry about tweet link, this previously posted one is good.
    The Doorstep Murder - Welcome to The Doorstep Murder - BBC Sounds
     
  8. Keine Engel

    Keine Engel Well-Known Member

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  9. Keine Engel

    Keine Engel Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't heard about the other guns found in the town before, the fact one was identical to the murder weapon seems curious o_O
     
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  10. Markybug

    Markybug Active Member

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  11. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    What is interesting, is that this is a brand new article!
    Thinking that if this was an organized hit of sorts, they would have access to guns and not have to use an antique gun. imo.
    ETA.
    If one considers the name PAUL written on the envelope and the victim's alleged links to a bank fiasco, this old expression comes to mind....
    To rob Peter to pay Paul - Wikipedia
    "To rob Peter to pay Paul"



    [​IMG]

    A replica of the antique gun used to kill Mr Wilson at his home in Nairn in November 2004
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  12. Markybug

    Markybug Active Member

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    Yeh , suspicious or just coincidence?
     
  13. Keine Engel

    Keine Engel Well-Known Member

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    I'm not really sure o_O
    Somehow I expect they'll trace back to WWII kept as 'mementos' so not that 'suspicious' but whatever happened after until they were recently found could then maybe lead to a connection?
    If ONLY the 3 guns mentioned (having been found in recent years) I don't know whether I believe it's coincidence?
    It's all such an intriguingly strange case :cool:
     
  14. Markybug

    Markybug Active Member

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    What are the details on the 3 guns? Are they all the same type as the murder weapon ? I only was aware of one identical gun appearing
     
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  15. Keine Engel

    Keine Engel Well-Known Member

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    The murder weapon & one found in Naith 2016 are both the same - 1920s Haenel Schmeisser semi-automatic, nicknamed a “pocket pistol"

    "Police Scotland started reinvestigating the Alistair Wilson case in 2016, following a cold case review.
    A short time later, a second Haenel Schmeisser was found in Nairn and handed in to the police.

    It was identical to the murder weapon found in the drain 12 years earlier.

    A third antique gun was also found in Nairn in 2016. It was not a Haenel Schmeisser, but a Belgian-made Melior pistol of the same calibre."

    ..But, as forensic firearms expert Mark Mastaglio found during his career, they’re fairly rare in the UK these days.

    When Mark was lead scientist for the Forensic Science Service he collated data on guns coming into the UK.

    “The Haenel does have advantages because of its concealability,” he says. “They’re so small you can secrete them away in your pocket.”

    But he says there are not many in circulation.


    “They’re certainly not what I can refer to as one of the brand leaders of weapons that are used on the streets,” he says."
    [​IMG]
    The Doorstep Murder - BBC News
     
  16. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Nov 23 2014 rbbm.
    Decade on, pistol still seen as key to murder mystery
    "Several days after the murder, the pre-war German pistol used in the slaying was found in a drain just a few hundred yards away from the scene in the small Morayshire town."

    "It is a “vest pocket” pistol designed by Hugo Schmeisser and manufactured by the Haenel arms company in Suhl, Germany, in the 1920s – commonly known as a Haenel Schmeisser Model 1.

    Earlier this year, Detective Constable Roddy Isles used the gunboards.com forum to appeal for information about the weapon from enthusiasts and collectors."

    “An explanation for any markings on the firearm? In particular the significance of the comma between Suhl and Schmeisser stamp of the left hand side.

    “Was the firearm exported from Germany and if so where to?

    “Any person with information about this firearm, serial number 11843, or any firearm near to that serial number and its history.

    “Details of any person who may have carried out repairs or maintenance on this firearm.”


    "A man named “Vaclav” from Russia was the first to respond, saying that he had been “long watching” the story about Mr Wilson’s murder.

    He added that it would be “very difficult to determine” when the pistol was made.

    Another enthusiast, Stefan Klein from Germany, was more helpful, providing detailed information about dozens of Haenel Schmeisser Model 1s.

    He added: “Your gun is an early example. So maybe it is from 1922 or 1923. It is close to a smaller bunch of guns which were marked for export."
    The Sunday Express discovered that a Haenel Schmeisser Model 1 with a serial number very similar to that of the murder weapon – 11383 – was sold at auction near Chicago earlier this year.


    Jonathan Ware, of Cabela’s department store in Hoffman Estates, Illinois, said: “It came from a regular customer, an antiques collector

    who I don’t think has ever fired a gun in his life."
     
  17. Markybug

    Markybug Active Member

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    Not a young mans choice of weapon then? Or obviously someone who originally brought it back as a war booty ?
     
  18. Keine Engel

    Keine Engel Well-Known Member

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    I think that's undoubtedly how it initially got into the U.K. & I'd think unlikely it was still in the possession of whoever brought it here but ??.. but maybe a family member(s)
    or if anyone who has sold/given away similar gun(s) which they've had in the family hopefully will give the police any info. at all they can...which quite possibly could help?

    **:cool: F.Y.I.**
    For anyone not in U.K. it can't be stressed enough how rare any gun is here (even before the laws changed) so it would be definitely something you would remember.
     
  19. Markybug

    Markybug Active Member

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    So maybe look at a local male , family member was in ww1/2 (gun souvenir) , with financial woes related somehow to the Bank ? House repossession, business, personal loan etc ?
     
  20. Keine Engel

    Keine Engel Well-Known Member

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    You know,
    [​IMG]
    I still really don't know what I think?

    This ^ just seems it could potentially give police some kind of lead...I mean 'anything' could help break the case & unfortunately I don't see they've got much else.

    I can't see any way this could be connected to any business or personal banking issues after this length of investigation to be honest.
    This was BIG news in the entire U.K. & undoubtedly had every source of investigative aid made possible to the police. The 'Bank' is a major national financial institution so you can bet your a$$ no expense was spared looking into every angle from the 'inside';)

    Also with this in mind, as successful as he was he was still just 30, I doubt he'd be in such position to even have the authority or ability to access anything of much without it going thru various official procedures & checks. Certainly nothing near the level (not even for him to imagine he could) that would lead to blatently risk murder right on someone doorstep!?!


    **As I know next to nothing about the inside dealings of banking or murdering people I may be very, very wrong about thiso_O**
     
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