Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by MsMiniSleuth, Sep 18, 2021.
Ten days ago. They would have checked the list of mispers and eliminated AC by now.
Have any relations or friends arrived from Italy to assist the search?
Thinking same. Also crossed my mind about a car last night when looking at the Google map of Mornington and Eleanor. A pick up spot?
All seems a bit cloak and dagger even though I say it myself. There is probably a simple answer and that is intentional, or unintentional and he collapsed somewhere and succumbed, maybe inside a disused garden or outbuilding.
Yes, his father and brother.
I'm perhaps thinking the change of job was to do with the post-Covid shake-up?
Perhaps his assistant managers job (assistant manager of what?) was on furlough, and he didn't really work through most of the lockdowns etc.
Perhaps this new waiter job meant not as much income as before, and he couldn't afford to live in Richmond, Surrey anymore (it's a very expensive place to rent and live.)
By contrast, Bromley-by-Bow is in East London, and like many areas of East London has a reputation that isn't the best, although there has been some gentrification in recent years. Most areas have many Indian/Pakistani/Asian immigrants and these areas would offer much cheaper accommodation, and also easier commuting to the city centre than Richmond would.
Perhaps he was too nervous and anxious about the new job, new rental house, new area and total upheaval of his life and just wanted some time away? The pandemic has been tough on some people.
Also, just a thought: is Ciro just a friend/buddy, or is he a boyfriend/partner? I'm wondering if his love life was in a bit of turmoil too?
Whatever the reason, I think it was a planned disappearance, and what better way to do it than just before you start a new job and new place to live. It's easier that way....you're in between commitments.
I just wish he'd ring his Mama and tell her he's safe, but maybe he feels too ashamed?
Absolutely! We have so many gaps, many of which the police will have completed. We don't know in what way he felt ill. I know if I felt nauseous in public, embarrassment would make me want to find the nearest discreet area to be sick. If I had turned right out of Bow Road Underground Station, then I'd be turning first right into Mornington Grove to get off the main road. I wouldn't want to be walking too far....just a quiet'ish spot in a corner would be just fine. But this is an assumption as to his 'illness'.....so my narrative has little credibility.
The other key element which is critical, is the absolute confirmation that whatever information is coming from a non-native English speaker is checked and double checked for its accuracy and understanding of both the informant and the reporting officer.
I have seen it first hand when a foreign national, believed to be missing in London, was not immediately matched with a body found in the City of London, because key information was incorrectly recorded in translation. It was only when a relative travelled to New Scotland Yard, because of its mythical reputation (long time ago now) that re-confirming the description directly with the relative and identifying the inaccuracy in the original description enabled the team to immediately link the missing person with the deceased.
People are creatures of habit. Assuming the police have correctly identified AC arriving by train at Bow Road Underground Station and leaving onto right onto to Bow Road then I think the two most likely scenarios are that he was indeed ill and has collapsed somewhere unseen or that he had other plans, which his friend was unaware of....meeting someone, with a vehicle perhaps?
I'd like to know:
1. When AC's phone was last connected to the network and in what area?
2. How well his friend new AC and how long the friend had been in the UK?
3. Why the move from Richmond to way out East? There are an abundance of restaurants to work at in SW London as there is plenty of money to be spent? Was he trying to escape a situation emanating in SW London or was it just too expensive to live there?
4. Has there been any use of AC's Oyster or credit/debit cards since he was last seen?
Plus a load more questions/lines of enquiry if it wasn't so late! There is CCTV at Thames Magistrates Court at Bow Road J/W Mornington Grove, there may be some private CCTV which may show the pavement. It's all a case of doing these enquiries as soon as possible and hoping the CCTV quality is good. The day was clear with a mixture of cloud and sunshine. The DLR is only a short distance beyond the Thames Magistrates Court on Bow Road. AC could buy a ticket with cash, not use his Oyster card, and be on the south side of the Thames in no time. So many possibilities!
When last seen, from what we know, AC was moving away from the Cemetery Park. From what we know there is no report of a male matching AC's description in the immediate vicinity or seen to enter the Cemetery Park. We are told his phone is off so there is no phone ping from that area. We are not aware of any items of clothing or personal effects being found in the vicinity of, or in Cemetery Park.
If this is correct, as we know it, then there is no operational basis for conducting such a search. Such a thorough search is not something the police are trained for. It would require a large Lowland Search Team to conduct a thorough boundary search and then section the inner area off into small sectors and conduct line searches with spacing calculated using an average range of detection technique (AROD). Police will not deploy a Lowland Search Team, who are volunteers, without there being a credible reason to believe that AC could be within the Cemetery.
Unfortunately, we don't have access to the systems and lines of enquiry that the police do. It is somewhat frustrating because I'm sure we could collectively do great things if we did
Assuming they had their own jerry can......for their stolen off-road motorcyles, stolen pool car. I am sure all the petrol stations refuse to activate the pumps when they pull on the forecourt, unless they pay up front, because of all the ride/drive offs, without payment. Or was it during the UK wide disorder in 2011 when molotov cocktails were de rigeur?
Just a thought.....never policed that area but I'm sure most inner city areas have similar offending behaviour.
There are at least five cameras covering the front of the Mags Court. The two in the picture are at the corner of the building at the J/W Mornington Grove. There are cameras covering along the right and left sides of the building from either end. No doubt there are further cameras covering the rear of the building but they are obscured by the secure car park with high walls and gates, which are well defended
@Positano86 (for your information) and @Rotspo (replying to your comment)
To clear up any ambiguity about the direction Antonino left the station at Bow Road. If he was standing with his back to the station and looking towards the main road outside the station, did he walk to HIS right or left? These are simple misunderstandings that can make a massive difference. If you have seen the video is that something you are able to confirm with certainty?
@Rotspo, the first set of large gates you mention on the left just as your enter Mornington Grove from Bow Road are the access to the rear of the Magistrates Court. It is well protected because it is a reasonably high risk building. The gates would be highly unlikely to be left open without security guards or police officers being present. They are more likely to be opened and then closed when a high risk prisoner is being transported to of from the court and being taken to or leaving the holding cells. The building is well protected with CCTV.
The railway line is some way below the road level so it would be a big drop down to the railway. It looks as though the rear of the secure Magistrates Court car park that is adjacent to the railway line, has a high fence to prevent prisoners escaping onto the railway track.
The possibility of access to the small yard on the right side and adjacent to the railway line, as you enter Mornington Grove from Bow Road, is more credible and is worth checking out, if the landowner or someone acting on their behalf gives permission. Once again it is a fair drop down to the railway, but would also be worth asking the railway staff to check.
All these actions should really be done in consultation with the police. It really is best for ONE of Antonino's English (fluent) speaking relatives/friends in London to be in direct contact with the police and to act as the conduit between the police and family/friends. If the London contact is polite but assertive and asks direct questions about what lines of enquiry the police are following then you will have a better understanding of what the exact situation is.
You can be assertive with British Police in such circumstances, although stay polite, and they will not give you any problems. Ask to speak with the officer who has day-to-day responsibility for the investigation into Antonino going missing. This will usually either be a dedicated Lost Person Search Manager (LPSM) or a officer of the rank of sergeant.
The nearest water canal/river is a kilometre from the Bow Road Station. By all accounts Antonino was visibly unwell. I really don't think it is very likely that someone in such difficulty would walk a kilometre passed shops, garages, a police station, people etc without seeking some help and then end up by the water.
That the police haven't released the last CCTV indicates that they are pursuing credible lines of enquiry. The UK police never give running commentary on their investigations.
The police station covering the area from where the person is missing takes the missing person report and has responsibility for the missing person investigation.
Richmond upon Thames is in the Metropolitan Police District as is Bow Police Station .
Actions will be requested of other stations/forces who may be able to assist based on the identified lines of enquiry.
I have no idea whether or not AC turned into Mornington Grove. It was a possible suggestion that I made were it me who was feeling very nauseous...... to turn off the main road as soon as possible and into a quieter street. I would say that having now looked at the CCTV images from the station, AC doesn't look as though he is in any great discomfort.
The police have appealed for Antonino or anyone who knows where he is to get in touch. To me this shows that there is no indication of foul play or that he was ill or injured to any great detriment. I think the police believe AC is still alive and well and has left of his own volition.
Thank you so much for all your insights @Whitehall 1212 !
I hope family or people close to them are reading all this, as it explains a bit more how UK police operate in this kind of cases.
Can someone confirm these photos are from Bow road station ? I was of the idea that the station didn't have stairs going up from the rails ?
If these are from day of disappearance then I can share a plausible theory. I am originally from Positano but live abroad. Been back home for some days now and was able to investigate locally on AC background. Some dots have connected. But the video / photos of the day of disappearance remain key.
Has it actually been confirmed by police that he was seen vomiting outside the station on CCTV? There is lots of mention of this on the thread but I can't see where the information came from. Please could someone point me in the direction of the source?
If you mean the CCTV photo then yes.
Thank you. I also thought he would turn right again to be unwell and get to somewhere quiet, but as time went on I began to think like you. I need to go back and re-read the wording I read last night about Mornington Grove. I can't remember if it was 'in the direction of M Grove' or he turned into there - I will check later.
If LE has seen bank card activity or phone activity would that perhaps make them put out the appeal for him to get in touch?
Thanks again for your insight.
Have we considered the local footbridge and if it has cameras?