Found Safe UK - Antonino Coppola, 23, from Richmond, Surrey, missing from Bow, East London, 16 Sep 2021

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by MsMiniSleuth, Sep 18, 2021.

  1. Sillybilly

    Sillybilly Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    ADMIN NOTE:

    Stop all the negative speculation regarding drugs. It is not in keeping with Websleuths victim friendly rule, and there is nothing in MSM or from LE that warrants such negative speculation against a victim.

    Post referring to drug use will be removed and any further attempts to introduce the topic into the discussion will result in either temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges.
     


  2. Tortoise

    Tortoise Well-Known Member

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    I'd say on the balance of probabilities it's most likely true. There's the added detail of him turning to look back afterwards, and the knowledge that others will have watched the CCTV with him so it'd be easy to refute.
     
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  3. Whitehall 1212

    Whitehall 1212 Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)

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    Just three caveats with your assertion:

    1. Witness testimony is notoriously unreliable
    2. The observation was not first hand but via viewing CCTV footage
    3. The witness C is not independent and may therefore have an unconscious bias or motive for saying this
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
  4. drama_farmer

    drama_farmer Central Kentucky (Bluegrass)

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    Just a general question: Is it common, in that particular area, to move house using the subway/Underground?
     
  5. Whitehall 1212

    Whitehall 1212 Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)

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    I expect it is not unheard of for those who travel, as AC appeared to do.....in Australia not so long ago.

    For those with just clothes and some other small personal items then moving across London on the public transport network would be the obvious choice.

    I expect that they would rent furnished accommodation which solves the issue of transporting the larger essentials such as a bed, basic furniture, television, fridge, freezer, washing machine etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
  6. AcbMurders

    AcbMurders Well-Known Member

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    Points taken. As I said, it may well be untrue, but what is certain is that C. said it on national TV.

    It’s not been either confirmed, nor denied by AC’s brother or father. Can we reasonably assume that police would have shown them the same piece of cctv so that they could confirm whether that was Antonino?

    The key question is: does this piece of footage exist? And if so, is C the only one saying AC is vomiting, or is it plain to see for anyone watching the footage?
     
  7. Gia86

    Gia86 Member

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    When I was living in shared houses/flats my room was already furnished and didn't have the need to buy furniture. When I moved to new places I always used the underground just to move my luggage to new apartment. Alone or with a friend who helped me.
     
  8. Whitehall 1212

    Whitehall 1212 Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)

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    In my experience where CCTV is concerned police tend to show the best benign image available to the witness to confirm identity, including physical features, clothing and accessories. They then use this to work backwards or forwards from identifying the person of interest on the previous of subsequent cameras on their journey, depending on the circumstances.

    I am somewhat surprised that C would have viewed the CCTV of AC vomiting if the image of AC ascending the stairs in the station was an image that was suitable for identification.

    I am assuming that the CCTV belonged to TfL and would have thought they would not show it to a witness (friend) without referring the matter to the police first and I would have thought the police would have been reluctant to show the witness (friend) anything other than the benign video image capture. Maybe this occurred in error.

    I feel it would have also been best practice for the attending officer to record a written first description of AC from C and only afterwards show the CCTV and ask C to say if he spots AC on the CCTV recording. It just adds some weight to the identification evidence.

    I can't see it serving any purpose to show dad and brother or to release it for public consumption. An independent witness would remember if they had seen someone vomiting at a certain place, I would have thought.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
  9. patsolagr

    patsolagr Member

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    BBC did mention it the news article (and I think on the video that is no longer available on iplayer), but it was a fleeting comment and didn't seem to spend too much time/emphasis on it :

    Antonino Coppola: Brother desperate for news over missing man
    "He left his luggage with a friend before leaving the station as he had felt unwell, police said."

    So I still think the throwing up incident did happen, but maybe it isn't the centerpiece.
     
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  10. annpats

    annpats Well-Known Member

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    No, but they DO quite often issue last CCTV images in many cases, even when they are pursuing credible lines of enquiry.
     
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  11. Whitehall 1212

    Whitehall 1212 Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)

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    You'll find the police issue the best quality, generally benign, images of the subject of interest around the time of the incident in question.

    Reasons for this are so as not to cause distress and also not to undermine any future witness testimony as a result of the image including evidential detail which could be of importance, e.g. a significant motor vehicle in shot, a third party present or a distinctive/obvious location identifier.
     
  12. JuicyLucy

    JuicyLucy Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible that that early image of AC vomiting came from another source? By definition it will have been captured outside the station, so perhaps it came from a business or similar, perhaps across the way from the station entrance. I'm bearing in mind the fact that the TfL images from inside the station seem to have taken some time to become available, so perhaps it was necessary for the police to approach other owners of CCTV cameras to speed things up and it was all that was forthcoming?

    You'd know better than me if that's a plausible explanation @Whitehall 1212.
     
  13. Whitehall 1212

    Whitehall 1212 Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)

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    It's fair to say we don't know exactly where AC allegedly vomited. It has been stated outside the station, but that only, so far as we know, comes from one source, C. Without independent corroboration I would always treat any such statement with scepticism.

    In terms of the camera. Well having a good scout around on street view, the only ones immediately obvious are at the Magistrates Court and the traffic camera on Bow Road J/W Albert Street, but it faces west along Bow Street, away from the station. Maybe a TfL camera views outside from inside the station foyer?

    To be honest it is not particularly evidential now as the hospitals have been checked and any patient status has been ruled out.

    The police may quite rightly have held back the images. They can get them pretty quickly with their powers.

    The offset of publishing the images is that the police have to field a lot of spurious info being phoned in and someone has to filter it out. They would often rather focus on the evidential tools available to them before deciding to release the images to the public.

    As far a AC's whereabouts are concerned. What are the likely scenarios.

    1. Fallen seriously ill and collapsed somewhere unseen. Highly unlikely at 12:46 on a Thursday afternoon on a busy London thoroughfare, albeit with quieter side streets. The weather was cloudy with sunny intervals and about 19 degrees Celsius, so people would have been out and about.

    2. Assaulted and lying injured/killed unseen. Again as for 1, highly unlikely at such a time on such a day in such a location.

    3. We are told AC's mobile was not connected to a cell site. If switched off by choice this would indicate he was going somewhere he knew or wss meeting a third party and wanted to hide his movements as far as possible.

    4. His intent could have been to go off the grid. He may have got into a vehicle with a third party he had arranged to meet. An absence of sightings on CCTV or from witnesses, beyond the immediate vicinty of the station would indicate this.

    5. Did AC know the area? Had he been there before? Without a phone to navigate with then either local knowledge or clear direction would be needed. An A-Z is unlikely methinks at 23 years old

    6. So he's either staying at an address of his own free will or he's gone to an address and has come to harm.

    7. What/who is he running away from or even towards?

    Just my thoughts....but the simplest explanations are often the most likely.

    I feel that the answers will lie in his the nature of his London life....work, friendships, acquaintances, social time.
     
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  14. annpats

    annpats Well-Known Member

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    I myself am feeling that it may be a mixture of 3 and 4.
     
  15. Officer Dibble

    Officer Dibble Well-Known Member

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    No, not at all. I would say its very uncommon. If you don't have much money or many goods you use a taxi. If you can afford it and have more things you hire a van or a man who drives the van.
     
  16. annpats

    annpats Well-Known Member

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    Exactly that. I assume they didn't have many clothes and possessions then. They must have taken no more than a large suitcase/duffel bag each, plus a rucksack. It wouldn't be possible to walk, or even travel on the tube with any more baggage than that, realistically.

    It doesn't sound like much stuff for a few years of living in London. People take more on a week's holiday!

    But then, perhaps they were going to do it in two trips or multiple trips?

    Richmond, Surrey to Bromley-by-Bow E3 is a pain in the a$$ journey, but it can be done on the tube. It'd be the cheapest way, just a few £ on an Oyster Card, but it could take up to 1.5 hours. No need to change lines, the district line goes all the way between these two locations.

    Or perhaps they weren't transporting their clothes and possessions?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
  17. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

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    Just saw this. Maybe our Italian fluent friends can say more about what is being said - way too fast for my pidgin Italian comprehension!

    But there is a live video snatch of AC doing something with pasta in a kitchen, then the interviewer talks to his... mother?

    Chi l'ha visto? 2021/22 - Cosa si nasconde dietro la scomparsa di Antonino Coppola a Londra? - 29/09/2021 - Video - RaiPlay

    (For those unfamiliar with London, some lovely scenic shots of the Thames, London Eye, Waterloo Bridge, Houses of Parliament... and Bow station, outside and in.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
  18. AcbMurders

    AcbMurders Well-Known Member

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    Will do, now it’s available.

    From memory, when I watched it first time it was broadcasted, the only interesting part was the phone conversation with C. But you guys might pick up more with a full translation. Just bear with me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
  19. StillDiggin

    StillDiggin Well-Known Member

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    Police seamed to have had a good response for I formation.
    Richmond police.

    Following our renewed appeal to find Antonino, we would like to thank those of you who have contacted police with information about him. Our officers are currently following up on the information received. Please keep it coming.

    If you have any information about Antonino, call 101 and quote 21MIS028497

    If you see him, call 999 immediately.

    Thank you.
     
  20. infinit

    infinit Well-Known Member

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    My personal take is I think he was getting out of the station quite quickly. He's walking on the right hand side of the staircase which is typically where people go to overtake people. He is seen parallel to the person in the long white top in the 1st image and in the 2nd image is seen infront of them by a few steps. If you take the advertisments in the background and the amount of distance between the 1st and 2nd image, he's got quite far ahead of them in a relatively short amount of space. Perhaps this can be explained by him rushing knowing he is close to throwing up. But I agree he doesn't appear acutely unwell, from the limited images away.

    I agree with Whitehall's analysis of the options. I just don't understand why he could choose that exact time and place and leave the flatmate on the platform. If I look at it logically, the circumstances aren't great for disappearing - The friend is going to become concerned fast vs if he just went out for a day he'd get a far bigger head start.
     

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