Found Safe UK - Antonino Coppola, 23, from Richmond, Surrey, missing from Bow, East London, 16 Sep 2021

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by MsMiniSleuth, Sep 18, 2021.

  1. patsolagr

    patsolagr Member

    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    13
    They don't have to give running commentary, but surely if they do, that can also help people with more targeted searches/shares/appeals? I do remember in the cases of Sarah Everard and Sabina Nessa there were constants updates and appeals, and they even got the killers within days.

    Obviously any post here cannot be verified for it's accuracy and could have misleading intent, but noone can deny either that the whole story took more underworld direction since those bombshells were thrown.
     
    Marg from Oz and AcbMurders like this.


  2. Whitehall 1212

    Whitehall 1212 Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)

    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    3,940
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Yes, I see your line of thinking exactly and don't disagree.

    I believe that C contacted AC's family not his own.....could be wrong.

    I guess our initial actions depend on the circumstances and previous experience. Consequently we have alternative thought process, different assessment of risk, various scenarios playing and different action responses.

    To clarify my original post. Yes, I'd eliminate the most likely scenarios, e.g. in a pharmacy, pub toilet, public toilet, at known nearby friends, taken to one of the local hospital's etc. Then I'd be reporting to local police directly. However, I understand being younger, with less life experience an automatic response could be to contact the family to inform them and seek guidance. Although I'm surprised that C left it to the family in Italy to make the report via the Italian authorities.

    I also understand that calling the police is something that many worry about, i.e. "what do I say"? "I don't want to waste their time". Of course try and rule out the plausible scenarios before calling, but if they are negative and someone could be at risk then make the call. If in any doubt make that call straight-away, particularly where children are concerned.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
  3. AcbMurders

    AcbMurders Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Hard to say what C should/could have done, or if he didn’t want Uk police involved. His English may/may not be that good. AC’s family reporting him missing to Italian foreign office is understandable, esp as UK is no longer in the EU. And they did so quickly. FB appeal by Richmond Police was published the morning after.
     
  4. Whitehall 1212

    Whitehall 1212 Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)

    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    3,940
    Trophy Points:
    93
    The bottom line for the police is the public safety issue. In the case of Sabina Nessa, two suspects were arrested quickly and subsequently released and then CCTV was issued of a man who police wanted to identify as a matter of urgency. He was arrested within 24-48 hours of the CCTV images release, I recall.

    Police released images of Sarah Everard on the evening and in the area she went missing to try and prompt someone to recall and report any information about seeing her, which could help in identifying anyone she was seen with and in turn locate her. What the police didn't do was to provide details of the vehicle they were interested in, for obvious operational reasons.

    Police investigations in the UK are subject to confidentiality and operate very much on a need to know basis within the police itself. When the potential risk to public safety outweighs some of the confidentiality or a significant case can be progressed more effectively, with minimum impact on that confidentiality, then the police will make a public appeal and disclose certain information. This will be in a measured way and only reveal as much as is necessary to achieve their aims.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
    rhino, V347, jackal67 and 6 others like this.
  5. Jenesaisquoi

    Jenesaisquoi Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    874
    Likes Received:
    4,551
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I don’t think any of the young people I know would have phoned the police in those circumstances. I think it much more natural to contact his family in Italy (perhaps via C’s family as we didn’t tend to have phone numbers of housemates’ parents).
     
  6. patsolagr

    patsolagr Member

    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    13
    That's the thing in the case of the women above, CCTV of suspect man released to speed up the hunt down and the fact that two suspects were arrested and released.

    3 weeks to release CCTV of AC missing is too much imo. This could have been done in days. No targeted appeal for CCTV from other business or passer by. No coordinated effort to share appeals between boroughs. 18 days later, and Richmond Police was still quoting Bow Street, instead of Bow Road. Again my opinion that this was not good enough.

    There is no need to possibly announce "we are interrogating XYZ or specifically C because they gave incomplete information a few days ago", but what they can verify (or deny) is : "has there been any card/phone activity", "has there been any suspect" or "has there been any other CCTV sighting and in which area".
     
    jackal67, Marg from Oz and AcbMurders like this.
  7. AcbMurders

    AcbMurders Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Agree. AC’s brother and father went to London almost immediately and would have stressed how out of character AC’s disappearance was. Had that been a young, attractive, middle class English girl with a solicitor or GP father, I bet there would have been a lot more pressure on LE for a quick response. JMOO
     
  8. Whitehall 1212

    Whitehall 1212 Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)

    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    3,940
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Without over-elaborating it's important to consider whether, based on the information the police have about AC, in what context they believe he may be missing and if there is any connected activity, which may have caused him to go missing.

    Such situations will dictate how the police manage the investigation and what, if any, information they convey to the public. Many of us here will be aware of the some of the police methods used in an investigation. Confirmation that they are being used during the course of a specific investigation could often be counter-productive.

    However, I do agree regarding the Bow Street versus Bow Road misinformation. This is down to a lack of attention to detail and that is not acceptable, when the motto should be "trust nothing, question everything".

    I suspect that AC was graded as being of low risk of harm initially. It may have been only after more information was gathered and the investigation was handed to a Detective Inspector that the inter-station co-operation and press releases improved.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2021
    V347, jackal67, OrangeCash and 2 others like this.
  9. Whitehall 1212

    Whitehall 1212 Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)

    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    3,940
    Trophy Points:
    93
    It's not just about the demographic of the missing person, although I acknowledge that recent history indicates some bias, which can impact on effective decision making.

    It is also very much about the missing persons personal circumstances, their state of mind and the circumstances of their disappearance. which all feeds into the risk of harm assessment and hence the resources allocated to an investigation.

    This is a contentious issue for so many reasons but it is important to remember that the devil is often in the detail......detail which we are not privy too. Our perception based on what we know is no doubt very different to that of the police, who have much better insight and a response to match, although it may not be played out in the public eye.
     
  10. infinit

    infinit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    3,799
    Trophy Points:
    93
    There is a difference though in my mind between a family member and a friend/flatmate. If I was abroad with a friend and I couldn't find or contact them I think personally I'd check if they'd contacted their family before I wanted to deal with a foreign Police force. I'd be more concerned after knowing they hadn't contacted their family or their family couldn't contact them then I would before.

    JMO.
     
  11. infinit

    infinit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    3,799
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Not to derail the thread. But I think this is really more of a media problem. The media pushes cases that sell and generate clicks rather than any prioritisation of severity. There are plenty of missing people each day where the Police request information that get barely any media attention. Media attention then creates more Police attention.

    A media outlet could do a decent article querying why it's taken so long for footage to be released and why basic information was not correct and at the same time raising awareness of the case. But it doesn't fit with the current agenda.

    JMO.
     
    V347, jackal67, Positano86 and 7 others like this.
  12. AcbMurders

    AcbMurders Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    Trophy Points:
    93
  13. jackal67

    jackal67 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    1,456
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I agree
     
  14. MsMiniSleuth

    MsMiniSleuth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,468
    Likes Received:
    17,166
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I queried the Bow Street/Bow Road early on when I first started the case, as there is a Bow Street station - in Wales! It was not made clear at the start where the station was.

    I am not so sure the police had further info when they started with the renewed appeals. More like the family had started to press them on what they were doing, as didn't seem a lot, plus it now going into weeks, and possibly the Italian embassy contacting them over a missing national.

    Perhaps understandably, when as I said previously, he is a fit and healthy young man, with no known mental or physical health issues to mark him down as vulnerable or a suicide risk, and there with no suspicious circumstances, his disappearance would not be seen as high risk.
     
  15. FOXINBOX

    FOXINBOX Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    664
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I have removed myself from the "private conversation" about this thread on the very practical grounds that my email box is full of notifications, and I was beginning to ask myself why it was a private conversation. I'll post any new thoughts on here
    Just to add, I offered no opinion that I had not already given on this thread.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
    jackal67 and Marg from Oz like this.
  16. Cherwell

    Cherwell Ice Cream

    Messages:
    5,862
    Likes Received:
    12,915
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You can turn off notifications.
     
    Marg from Oz and AcbMurders like this.
  17. FOXINBOX

    FOXINBOX Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    664
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Thanks, another time I will, but in any case I thought the "Private Conversation" was simply a means of continuing this thread unmoderated. I prefer to post in the open.
     
  18. patsolagr

    patsolagr Member

    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Thank you @FOXINBOX .
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
    FOXINBOX likes this.
  19. Whitehall 1212

    Whitehall 1212 Verified Law Enforcement and SAR (UK)

    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    3,940
    Trophy Points:
    93
    You are making assumptions about AC being fit and healthy, having no physical/mental impairments and no despondency or suicidal feelings/intent.

    These are not details that would be immediately available to the police and rarely is medical information about missing people revealed to the media by the police.

    I would beg to differ that the circumstances of AC's disappearance were not suspicious. On the contrary they are unusual and unexpected.

    The initial missing person report would have most likely been recorded by a telephone operator, most likely a civilian operator and not an experienced police officer. This initial record was probably a skeleton report with the detail not completed.....remember it came via Italy too, though a variety of sources, increasing the likelihood of inaccuracies. C was most likely not spoken to until some time later.

    The report would have been forwarded to the appropriate command unit covering the address AC was missing from (reportedly the Richmond area).

    I suspect that not until after the initial enquires were completed was the risk of harm assessment raised and the case became the responsibility of a Detective Inspector. Before this it was quite possibly a uniformed and relatively inexperienced police constable carrying out the basic enquiries, not a trained and experienced detective.

    Hundreds of people are reported missing in the capital each day. The vast majority return within 24 hours. The police priority will be for those who have an identified risk of harm. Other reports will prompt routine background enquiries not a dedicated CID investigation and the cavalry being rolled out.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  20. LucyRocket

    LucyRocket Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    869
    Likes Received:
    5,652
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I feel like I'm more curious about AC's companion at this point. Whatever he's told officers about their conversation, and the onset of the illness, would be significant to where we go from here.
     

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice