Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #7 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Clutchbag]

ok guys, will put this one on the backburner

 

[Dirk Gently]

Again, and given that there is no legal requirement to include or specify a location in a charge, the very nature of the charge itself makes the reference to "at Machynlleth" nonsensical unless LE have some very specific evidence linking the offence to Machynlleth.

Just posted a question on a legal forum re: the above, will provide feedback as soon as I have it.

Mods - are there any specific issues involved with quoting info on another forum or does this only apply to social media such as FB?

 

[frommer]

Re LegallyBrunette's post #1020 on the old thread, do you also have dates for PJ's two children with KG. The MSM said they were born about the same time as MB's with her sister. Also, if I'm allowed to ask, when were PJ and CJ married?

 

[veggiefan]

That said, I've just come across this on the Fountain of Knowledge that is Wikipedia:

"Many criminals dispose of bodies in a river, hoping that the body is carried away. However, this method will most likely lead to a quick detection of the body, because the body gets entangled at the side of the river, or stopped at a dam, or is simply seen floating by others.

While that is a risk, it is a generalisation. You need to consider what the Dyfi can be like. The following is undoubtedly worse than the conditions at the start of October, but probably not markedly so, as the river was in full flood. The opening sequence was shot by the Dyfi bridge. What chance of anyone seeing anything if a body had been cast into that raging torrent before dawn? It would be out into the Irish Sea in a very short space of time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9R4Tmiy9SI

 

[Clutchbag]

Just posted a question on a legal forum re: the above, will provide feedback as soon as I have it.

Mods - are there any specific issues involved with quoting info on another forum or does this only apply to social media such as FB?

i think you can link so people can read the info but not copy and paste or you can just paraphrase what they have said. nursebeeme will confirm if thats right.

See section called social networks here


Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[frommer]

Just posted a question on a legal forum re: the above, will provide feedback as soon as I have it.

Mods - are there any specific issues involved with quoting info on another forum or does this only apply to social media such as FB?

If LE have such specific evidence that the crime was committed in Mach, why would they continue to search a much wider area (or conversely why would they be so specific in stating the location when they don't know)? Or does the concealment occur as soon as the child enters the van?

Will be interested in what you find out.

 

[veggiefan]

If LE have such specific evidence that the crime was committed in Mach, why would they continue to search a much wider area

I imagine because, wherever a crime is committed, it is possible to dispose of the evidence elsewhere given sufficient time.

 

[Cherwell]

If LE have such specific evidence that the crime was committed in Mach, why would they continue to search a much wider area

They may be searching for something else.

Or does the concealment occur as soon as the child enters the van?

No, because the charge relates to concealing a body, ie a dead body.

 

[ann-other]

I imagine because, wherever a crime is committed, it is possible to dispose of the evidence elsewhere given sufficient time.

Yes, and this thread has turned to what we all think is the inevitable. However, I don't think her body is in the river as a 'body' if at all.

Enough said, I hope and really pray my instincts are wrong.

JMO

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

Good find!

Is Machynlleth in Council Powys and Ceinws in Council Gwynned?

Machynlleth is in the county of Powys (thus Powys County Council) and Ceinws is in Gwynedd. The border is the river.

MB was interviewed at Aberystwyth police station, the local divisional HQ.

Edit: Both Mach and Ceinws are in Powys. Just looked at the maps. Missed that one! One takes much for granted.

 

[Cherwell]

Yes, and this thread has turned to what we all think is the inevitable. However, I don't think her body is in the river as a 'body' if at all.

Enough said, I hope and really pray my instincts are wrong.

JMO

What is it that you think has happened?

 

[ann-other]

What is it that you think has happened?

In all honestly, I have no explanation. There is no evidence that has come to light to support what was/is my gut feeling. And because of this I can't say anymore. We can all speculate (which is all I am doing) and come to our own private conclusions. I have to admit, initially I thought that someone else was involved but now I am not so sure.

At the moment we know of no motive to take April or what subsequently happened and my heart genuinely goes out to the parents and family. Whatever the outcome - this will continue to be a heartbreaking process for all concerned.

 

[Clutchbag]

It still remains a fact that there is not one single piece of evidence or fact in the public domain to point in any solid way to MB as having abducted april jones let alone killed her
IMO

 

[ann-other]

It still remains a fact that there is not one single piece of evidence or fact in the public domain to point in any solid way to MB as having abducted april jones
IMO

So true. But as discussed there appears to be a lot the public are not privy too, presumably from legal reasons. I imagine though, that the police do have some solid evidence that at this moment in time, is not being released to the public.

Think we will have to wait for the trial, as said before.

 

[Mrs P]

What does this tell us?

http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/27529/

'a sufficient number of uncertainties' (per Justice Griffith-Williams)...

...versus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19853582

'sufficient evidence to charge' (per CPS Iwan jenkins)

Case, or no case?

 

[Clutchbag]

:

So true. But as discussed there appears to be a lot the public are not privy too, presumably from legal reasons. I imagine though, that the police do have some solid evidence that at this moment in time, is not being released to the public.

Think we will have to wait for the trial, as said before.

Thats what I partly meant, none of the publically released info points to anything half solid. Yes I hope they do have solid evidence, and I look forward to hearing it though my money is on him being a patsy.

 

[Clutchbag]

What does this tell us?

http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/27529/

'a sufficient number of uncertainties' (per Justice Griffith-Williams)...

...versus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19853582

'sufficient evidence to charge' (per CPS Iwan jenkins)

Case, or no case?

I'dlike to be a fly on the wall there, sufficient evidence to charge could be very little or nothing as proven by history OR false or planted evidence by x y z

 

[Uchiki Kuri]

Here's some local information. Quote coding seems to have gone a bit funny. Hope it makes sense. :dunno:

Is Aberystwyth the closest major centre to Mach? For example, if you needed to go to a govt dept, major bank, something like that, is that where you'd go?

Edit: reading about it now.

Also, how far from Aber to Holyhead?

In addition to what has already been said, Machynlleth has three major banks and also small local government offices.

I know what you mean but Machynlleth is a town not an area, region or county. The very nature of the charge suggests otherwise.

"That between September 30, 2012 and October 3, 2012 at Machynlleth, with intent to pervert the course of justice, did an act, namely the unlawful disposal and concealment of the body of April Sue-Lyn Jones, which had a tendency to pervert the course of public justice contrary to common law. "

I think this is pointing to disposal (full or in part - I'd rather not say any more than this) in the river.

"At Machynlleth" looks like legalese. Any normal person would say in Machynlleth.

Lots of photos on story link as well.


The search area - the size of a tennis court - leads down to the river where the man carrying the black bag was seen by two witnesses at 1pm on Tuesday

Two women witnesses told police they spotted a man carrying a black bag down to the river below the hillside.

Carwen Sheen, 36, was chatting to a friend on the opposite river bank when they saw the figure scrambling down a gulley leading to the water's edge.

She confirmed she has given information to police about what she saw and a description of the man she saw at 1pm.

The women reported what they had seen near the village of Ceinws - about five miles away from April's home in Machynlleth - to detectives looking for April.

BBM
Ok, I 'm confused on this and may need some local help on this....

My understanding of this was that the women saw him coming down a bank nearer to the Dyfi Bridge than Ceinws. ?

From what i saw on the news reports the bank down to the river behind MB's garden wasn't as overlooked as much and more private.

But if it was nearer to Ceinws are we to believe that these two women were 'there' just chatting on the riverbank?

My point...I don't understand why they would have been in Ceinws, they are from Mach and it sounded like they were just having a casual stroll and chat more than doing any kind of search.
Can anyone shed any light on this please?

The likeliest place, IMO, would be the bus stop which is by the bridge which crosses the river from Ceinws onto the main road. The river and banks are visible from the bridge, which is quite close (upstream) to Bridger's house.

IIRC, at least one of the witnesses could have been working nearby.

I can't remember whether i've heard this on the grapevine or the media vine, or both.

Ah thanks, yes it is the Dulas behind MB's house. The report says 5miles from Mach, the Dyfi Bridge is virtually on the edge of town.
Ceinsw hardly seems the type of place to me that these local ladies would go for a stroll too??

Possibly waiting for a bus.

IIRC Ceinsw was not part of the search area on Tuesday afternoon, but I could be wrong. i too thought what they were doing there, its like five miles away. And coincidentally spotted the suspicious looking man.

The other thing is if it was MB they saw at 1pm how did he get to Machynlleth river bank by 1.45 to be caught on camera? By channel 4.
Thats if that was him as well or at all in the two sightings.

Yep, could well be. Just find it odd after looking at MB's house and surrounding area on Google that it's not an easy place for two ladies to access without going on what looks like private property.

I had thought it meant further along from the Dyfi bridge where the man was also filmed by channel 4.
:what:

It may be somewhat misleading that this man happened to be filmed by the river, as he is basically just walking along the pavement (sidewalk) which, at that point, is temporarily separated from the road, crossing the river on a pedestrian bridge a couple of hundred yards upstream

He is walking towards the town, and away from Ceinws

I think veggie or jigzy posted a photo a while back of a shale bank and said it was very likely the one police were searching. Photo was before they started searching. And if I got this right, it's the Dulas? -before it joins the Dyfi.

I think it is by Ceinws.

 

[Cherwell]

I hadn't seen that report from the Cambrian News*. I thought this was interesting:

Defence counsel, John Hedgecoe, said : "We anticipate there is going to be an enormous amount of material in this case. We will require some time to absorb that material and for solicitors and leading counsel to see Mr Bridger in conference."

http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/27529/



*an organ in which I have appeared myself

 

[BritsKate]

What does this tell us?

http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/news/i/27529/

'a sufficient number of uncertainties' (per Justice Griffith-Williams)...

...versus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19853582

'sufficient evidence to charge' (per CPS Iwan jenkins)

Case, or no case?

BBM

Mr. Justice Griffith-Williams never said what I bolded in relation to evidence or even the charges against MB but rather when the case could be tried in light of circumstances (possibly forensic testing and CPS still hoping they find her body before trial - there is also usually more evidence presented in no body trials as well). JMO

"There are a sufficient number of uncertainties to make it impossible for me to form a view as to when this case can be tried. But it should be understood it will be tried on the earliest possible date in the new year."