GUILTY UK - Bobbi-Anne Mcleod,18, ‘did not arrive to meet friends’ Plymouth, 20 Nov 2021 *Arrest*

nao

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Moo...most guys..women in bands ..have groupies of sorts..so usually no need to go chasing. I worked in bars that had bands..there was always followers. But it is also true that there is the confident or alternative persona for stage. In private they have their insecurity like everone else. A few are what i called ..stud boys..they get too used to attention and do not expect rejection. Moo
 

BrianJohnson

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Not sure why people are assuming someone in a band must be socially adequate or outgoing. As someone who used to manage bands I can assure you I came across many guys who had terrible social skills and anxiety once they put their guitars/drum sticks down. Alcohol plays a big part in being a social-crutch.

Agree 100%

My username is a big clue to who my music idols are and having had the pleasure of meeting them I can safely say that Angus Young is perhaps the most socially awkward person I have met in my life, on stage he is ultra extroverted but in person his shyness and social awkwardness is almost painful to see, the 3 times I met him he was the same

Yet seeing him on stage everyone would assume he is the life and soul of the party
 

ApparentlyInDenial

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Interesting that - according to the Mail's timeline (which is likely accurate) - the police were given Bobbi's phone at 11am on Monday, and immediately at 11.30am launched a search of some woodland and a few streets not far from the bus stop and Bobbi's home (Millwood Drive & Thurlestone Walk).

This suggests that the person who handed in the phone told police they found it in or near those areas.
 

asmi106082

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I think he’s attractive and is probably not used to hearing the word no. Especially from young women. I think he figured she would be excited to “have the privilege of his attention” (eye roll), and when she rejected him he lost it. I don’t think this was planned at all. I think he’s likely a self absorbed pretty boy who is used to getting whatever he wants. This time he didn’t. And he snapped.
MOO and definitely not an excuse. I think he should go away for life for this. MOO.
 

Amonet

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Looks mean nothing

The stereotype of murderers being the local weirdo, loner, eccentric looking are way off the mark - Barry George, Chris Jefferies, Colin Stagg etc were all innocent but were blamed because they fitted that stereotype

Whereas Jamie Reynolds, Jesse Kempson, Cody Ackland look like the type you would bring home to your parents for tea if you dating them, all 3 committed terrible crimes (allegedly but very likely in Ackland’s case)

Even Wayne Couzens looked a nice guy in a lot of pics

This is closer to what I was trying to say. I do think a lot of people have stereotypical views of what 'evil' looks like, and that stereotype is all around us in books and films. I don't think anyone does it on purpose to be 'lookist'.
 

everybodhi

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I have to take some exception with the notion that rape is primarily about dominance rather than sexual gratification. Adherents to certain religions think sexual gratification is granted them via scripture and that unchaste women are 'fair game'. There is a humiliation factor involved also. There is most likely a nexus of motivation including power and gratification, with individual factors being more prominent given context. E.g. the rape of a long term partner problem is more about power and control.
Your example of scripture is based on dominance and humiliation of men over women in scripture, taught as a birthright to males. It's about power.
Some men get sexually aroused from sex by force on an unwilling woman and others are aroused by enthusiastic consent.
Still others are aroused by torture, murder, and dismemberment.
Only one of these examples does not involve sexual arousal by power and dominance.
This is why rape is about power, it's what gets him off.
 

pokerowan

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As far as I'm aware, obstructing a coroner or preventing the burial of body would be a seperate charge.

MOO - likely no abduction/concealment charge because she was straight-up found on the beach. It's harder to charge for concealment if the body's out in the open, and if it doesn't look like a struggle then the abduction charge is hard to prove too. There's no way of knowing for sure at the moment (for us at least) that Bobbi-Anne didn't go willingly. It's totally possible that she went willingly to the beach, was murdered, and then left out in the open where it happened, making the only obvious charge to raise being the fact her life was ended.

In short: currently, it's hard to prove she didn't want to be there, before the point at which she lost her life.
 

JayWill

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Your example of scripture is based on dominance and humiliation of men over women in scripture, taught as a birthright to males. It's about power.
Some men get sexually aroused from sex by force on an unwilling woman and others are aroused by enthusiastic consent.
Still others are aroused by torture, murder, and dismemberment.
Only one of these examples does not involve sexual arousal by power and dominance.
This is why rape is about power, it's what gets him off.
I also believe it has something to do with resentment that women have the power of consent. Rape is taking away that power of consent. Another form of control.
And of course when women do consent, they have all those gender specific names for her.
 

Furore

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Even death penalties don’t prevent murder and rape, I don’t believe people think at all. They act impulsively. Like some of the things we say or do I’m text and email sometimes but on a grander scale!

what I find so sad is according to the DM timeline, she left her house at 6 and the bus was 6.23 - a 4 min walk. An unlucky 15 mins at bus stop that changed history!:(

in the dark it’s quite hard to see in any detail when driving past, though I suppose couzens had same issue - see something small and female, off you go.

my school friends in bands were misfits and had social anxiety the worst of any of us. I think sometimes musical creative types are the most troubled - I’m sure many famous examples, that guy Kate moss saw for many years, MJ, Amy wine house etc etc
 

Furore

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Good point about the immediate search area and phone handed in. What the trick was it doing there.

I find it unlikely she got in the car because she had a boyfriend and 18yo is old enough to be uncomfortable around lone men, especially in a situation by yourself in a bus stop in the dark.

I think more is going to come out about him and it isn’t going to be pretty, nor his first violent act towards women.
 

everybodhi

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I also believe it has something to do with resentment that women have the power of consent. Rape is taking away that power of consent. Another form of control.
And of course when women do consent, they have all those gender specific names for her.
But men have the power of consent as well.
If a woman pursues a man, he can reject her the same way a woman can reject a man. It happens everyday.
Women are disappointed when a man they are interested in shows no interest, or worse, uses her and discards her. Also, happens everyday.
Consent is not a power only women own.
 

JayWill

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But men have the power of consent as well.
If a woman pursues a man, he can reject her the same way a woman can reject a man. It happens everyday.
Women are disappointed when a man they are interested in shows no interest, or worse, uses her and discards her. Also, happens everyday.
Consent is not a power only women own.
Yes, that is true, but IMO, women withhold consent more than men do. It is a complicated subject.
 

Allabouttrial

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I wonder what the evidence against him is
I think the answer lies with the initial arrest. They arrested two people at the same time. Why? Whatever evidence they initially found I believe ties the two of them together.

It's rare to charge one person so soon, but to charge two at the same time must be even rarer.

Obviously though we can't sleuth the 26 year old and quite rightly.

Could it be evidence from the car or from a house? Or could they just have been seen together that night?

Did the 26 year old turn him in?
 

BrianJohnson

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I think the answer lies with the initial arrest. They arrested two people at the same time. Why? Whatever evidence they initially found I believe ties the two of them together.

It's rare to charge one person so soon, but to charge two at the same time must be even rarer.

Obviously though we can't sleuth the 26 year old and quite rightly.

Could it be evidence from the car or from a house? Or could they just have been seen together that night?

Did the 26 year old turn him in?

I think it is related to the car/van that was used to take her from the bus stop to the beach

Ackland and the 26yo were likely the 2 on the insurance policy so both were bought in by police

Someone a few pages back said the car park at the beach where her body was found had CCTV/ANPR cameras so I suspect something showed up on there and police were able to trace the journey of the vehicle and saw it had stopped at or near the bus stop too

A band transportation vehicle is most likely imho, and those 2 were insured to drive it
 

Allabouttrial

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I think it is related to the car/van that was used to take her from the bus stop to the beach

Ackland and the 26yo were likely the 2 on the insurance policy so both were bought in by police

Someone a few pages back said the car park at the beach where her body was found had CCTV/ANPR cameras so I suspect something showed up on there and police were able to trace the journey of the vehicle and saw it had stopped at or near the bus stop too

A band transportation vehicle is most likely imho, and those 2 were insured to drive it
I did wonder about the insurance aspect, I believe you mentioned it early on in the thread.

The only thing is why did they initially arrest them both, rather than just bring them in for questioning?

ETA: Changed charged to arrested.
 
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