UK- Boy, 6, thrown from 10th floor of London Art Gallery, Aug 2019 *minor arrested*

Discussion in 'Crimes-Spotlight on Children' started by IceIce9, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    12,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think he will be out in a hurry. Attempted murder of a child is a serious charge against him. The child is in a critical condition and could be paralysed.
     
    Isabelle98 likes this.
  2. Legally Bland

    Legally Bland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    10,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A former carer who worked with the alleged attacker last year told The Sun: “He’s one of the most difficult and challenging mental patients I’ve ever encountered.

    "He is stockily built and gets angry when he is denied something that he wants or is told what to do.

    “He’s not allowed out unless accompanied by at least two support staff.

    Boy, 6, hurled 100ft from Tate by 'mental patient, 17, who slipped minders'
     
  3. Isabelle98

    Isabelle98 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    474
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I hope you're right tresir2012 :(
     
    Trident likes this.
  4. RachelZachary

    RachelZachary Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    365
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I’m interested to know how the ‘source’ knew it was him - has his identity or photo been revealed somewhere?

    "There will have to be a serious inquiry into what he was doing there.”
     
  5. HongKongPhooey

    HongKongPhooey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    3,893
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Howdy stranger :)
     
  6. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    12,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Thanks for that. The former carer is describing conditions last year so will have to wait till we hear about the current arrangements. That is at least 8 months old. Also, the article says ripped from the mother's arms while I have seen other reports indicate the mother was feet away from the child so will have to read more reports I guess.
     
  7. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    12,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think we are allowed to use our own words to describe this criminal. After all he has not been named and won't be named either till he is 18.
     
    Oraclle, ElizB, IceIce9 and 1 other person like this.
  8. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    12,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This isn't a thread about mental health but is about the attempted murder of a 6 year old.
     
    Elainera and IceIce9 like this.
  9. RachelZachary

    RachelZachary Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    365
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Are we? I think as it’s reported, the word is ‘schizophrenia’...He’s a 17 year old boy, with mental health difficulties, of which at present we know nothing else about or why he was there. There are instances were convicted criminals under 18 are named e.g. Aaron Campbell - each case is individual.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    Candidateforwax likes this.
  10. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    12,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes we are, it's called opinion. IMO The only similarity is age of the victim and AC wasn't named initially ( until after conviction as you say) and it was then up to the judge. This will likely be similar IMO. Also, if this guy is convicted there will be mental health reports I imagine as there was with AC. That case was different in there were no MH issues discussed at trial. He was responsible for his actions. I don't know what will happen here and we will have to see.
     
  11. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    12,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/08/06/uk/tate-modern-boy-court-hearing-intl-gbr/index.html

    London (CNN) — A 6-year-old boy wandered just a few feet from his mother when a 17-year-old stranger allegedly picked him up and "swiftly" threw him off the 10th floor viewing platform at London's Tate Modern art gallery, a court has heard.
    ....
    "(The) victim had gone to the Tate with his family that day and were looking over the side of the 10th floor viewing platform enjoying the view," Morgan told the court. The boy then "walked a few feet away from his mother" when the defendant allegedly "picked him up and threw him extremely swiftly and in one movement."
    .....

    More at link.
     
  12. katydid23

    katydid23 Verified Juanette

    Messages:
    53,352
    Likes Received:
    66,945
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I imagine that the people at the Group Home, that he slipped away from, were told of this tragic incident.
    That is likely how his previous handler heard the news.
     
  13. RachelZachary

    RachelZachary Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    365
    Trophy Points:
    63
    What words would you use?
     
  14. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    12,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Criminal. I have already used it. He's been charged with attempted murder. If the child dies it will be murder. A child is criminally responsible from the age of 11, I think it is. Someone will correct me if I have that wrong. We cannot get around that and he will have to stand trial.
     
    Isabelle98 and IceIce9 like this.
  15. RachelZachary

    RachelZachary Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    365
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I don’t dispute what he has done and yes it is criminal.

    You implied you’d use other words? Also, what difference does it make to the words you’d use because he hasn’t been named?
     
    Candidateforwax likes this.
  16. IceIce9

    IceIce9 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,275
    Likes Received:
    9,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The fact that the 17 year old threw the 6 year old off the roof isn’t in dispute.

    Honestly I don’t think it matters whether the child was next to the mother or several feet away. I am sure we will hear more details later but throwing a child off the building under whatever the circumstances turn out to be is a horrific crime.
     
    Jackalyn and katydid23 like this.
  17. Jackalyn

    Jackalyn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    372
    Trophy Points:
    63
    There certainly does, but please let's not blame staff until we know what happened. Working with severely unbalanced children, teens or adults is very hard and sometimes the wrong decision is made with the best of intentions or you may have worries that are not listened to by those above you and there is little you can do but obey the chain of command. Sometimes the chain includes psychs who have not had to do the one-on-one stuff and make decisions you feel are wrong, but you have no choice but to go with it.

    You can also think the behaviour is controlled by medication and it would be but some are very devious when they decide not to take it. It is possible for a person to make it look like they did or if not watched, to make a decision not to take it with disastrous consequences.

    To watch, predict and be right about every potential behaviour of another human being is impossible, especially where there is a severe mental illness. NOT however that every person with a psychiatric disorder will be violent. I am talking of extreme degrees where thinking becomes so deranged it does not follow normal logic. As a mental health advocate, I was once hit hard, on the face, by a girl on a locked ward -out of the blue, while talking to a different patient. Her logic when asked was "I was sitting there looking pretty." Nobody could have predicted this action. If you analysed it there was nobody to blame. So I can understand how this terrible random act by a seventeen-year-old boy was blamed on social services. i would want the full circumstances before I blamed anything other than a terrible illness. Or concluded that this was an action by a person, and there are some, who was just evil personified. There is often no understandable logic but a root in some kind of feeling. The girl probably felt awful, was locked up while I was free and so on the mind got too much while who knows what happened with the boy. (Not excusing attempted murder.) For everyone's safety, we do need secure environments where such people can remain and be prevented from harming themselves or others. When someone commits an act of this magnitude, I don't think we can take the risk of allowing them out into the community again.

    The point is that normal logic in the mind can for a very small percentage of people, cease to function and the mind can create all sorts of alternate realities and even voices that tell you what to do in a way that convinces the person they need to act. Very few, when needing help get it before and not after action of insanity is performed. Unfortunately. when dealing with mental illness, the help is given too late to prevent the descent into insanity. How often do we hear of someone asking for help, then they do something dreadful and the papers tell us that the person or their relatives had been desperate to get help? How often do we plead with a person who is clearly not in their right mind to get help, have them refuse and find authorities say they will do nothing till the person agrees. We then find ourselves dealing with an attempted suicide or crime or violence of some sort, because the illness has been able to progress without intervention to this point. Only then is the help given and in a few days, the person is released supposedly well again. Some are, others are really not, but appear so.

    As to how the ex-worker got the information::

    Probably there would be links to colleagues the person worked with as people often keep in touch after they leave an institution, and sometimes update on what happened to various kids etc. It is a dangerous job and you get close to those working with the same danger

    I met someone who updated me on kids in a hospital I worked in -not details just the stuff like who got better and went home and on a boy who refused to walk and how one day he just seemed to change his mind and do so. I had spent a lot of time with the boy and after I left thought about him a lot. If you work with kids, you get interested and care about what happens next. When you meet someone who had the same experience, they update you. As workmates, you might socialise a drink after work and so on and this can carry on after you leave. It is easy to underestimate how emotionally involved you become.

    Some children and adults are very hard to "special." You can blink and something happens and they can also sound very credible and have periods of time that lull you into a false sense of security. In the seventies, a nurse in a hospital i worked in was raped because her husband, a charge nurse on another ward thought the patient was well enough to go for a walk on his own. It was horrific, but the guy has seemed fine for a very long time.

    It is easy to criticise staff, but if you work where someone needs to be one or two on one you understand how hard that job is and how easy it is to be fooled or duped or think something is safe that is not and sometimes those in charge do not listen to those doing the one on one job. One day I was asked to special a girl who had a tendency to bit people. I objected as I would be on my own, but the inexperienced (with this kind of child, insisted I would be fine. This is how I got bitten on the face a week before my wedding. Someone thankfully walked in and had to bang her on the back to make her let go. Of course, the inexperienced charge nurse had never seen what she could do. So I would hold off questioning those who may or may not have specialed this boy on that day until it is clear what happened. You only have to have a person in the mix who does not understand the severity of the problem this kind of child or adult presents and that you cannot trust their behaviour even after a long period of calm.

    Sorry, I have gone on again and drawn yet again on my own experiences. I guess my grey hairs are showing.
     
  18. Jackalyn

    Jackalyn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    372
    Trophy Points:
    63
    He can be named if a judge decided it was in the public interest, even if under age.
     
  19. Jackalyn

    Jackalyn Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    319
    Likes Received:
    372
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Would we know if he had been sectioned? If in detention/prison then they may not do it unless he becomes dangerous to himself or those around him as he is in a secure environment already. Hopefully, he is on a prison psych wing. My guess is he will be tried and end up in either Rampton or Broadmoor. A lawyer will make a lot of the mental illness.
     
    Candidateforwax likes this.
  20. AnnesCuthberts

    AnnesCuthberts Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Trophy Points:
    93
    There’s no disputing that you can refer to this person as a criminal, imo. The post you quoted is talking about referring to ALL people with mental illness.
     

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice